Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

TheTechGuy

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
922
RonJohn said:
I read one of the complaints. It appeared that they are saying : The executives and coaches bribed players to attend. The executives and coaches knew that the players were ineligible to play because of the bribes. The schools were defrauded because they provided scholarships to players that the executives and coaches knew to be ineligible. The executives and coaches conspired together. They laundered the money to hide it.

I'm not a lawyer, but as a logical argument, I would say that the school did indeed get sports use out of the players so no fraud took place. If no fraud took place, then there can't be a conspiracy to commit fraud. Also, if no fraud took place then money wasn't cleaned to cover up an illegal act. At least the complaint I read appeared to use circular logic to arrive at an illegal act.
Click to expand...
Haven't read the complaint, but I don't think "sports use" matters. Scholarships are public funds that the coaches knowingly misused while conspiring with apparel executives.
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,735
brandon_cox said:
As a lawyer who does federal criminal defense, let me point out the obvious: the guys being indicted are not the ultimate targets. They are not the big fish. The FBI will be looking to flip them for more high profile individuals, such as college coaches. The college coaches have tried to insulate themselves with middlemen but these middlemen are suddenly facing serious jail time. This will be a race to the courthouse to see who can flip first and get the best deal. There are some high profile coaches whose sphincters are very tight right now.
Click to expand...

Bingo, and the Justice Department does not bring indictments unless they consider it highly likely they are going to get a conviction.

I suspect FBI will be looking to flip people and go farther up the chain at the shoe companies and college coaches.

Given the allegations that there were bidding wars going on (no surprise to anyone who followed college basketball recruiting at all) this could get pretty ugly. Especially as someone else mentioned - this is not an NCAA issue, this is a Federal Government investigation.

NCAA may use this information eventually to make players ineligible and possibly sanction coaches - if they can get the assts to flip.
Looks like both L'ville and Miami have the potential to lose players.

And no school wants to lose an asst coach during recruiting season - especially for this kind of reason.
 
RonJohn

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,519
TheTechGuy said:
Haven't read the complaint, but I don't think "sports use" matters. Scholarships are public funds that the coaches knowingly misused while conspiring with apparel executives.
Click to expand...

The complaint says that it was fraud because the coaches and executives knew that the players were ineligible. What I was saying is that if the players in fact played and attended classes, then they were doing what they should to abide by the scholarship. If the coaches got things set up, and the players had to sit out, or not attend classes because of issues involving the payments, then the school would have suffered harm.

In the Bowen case, it appears now that he probably won't play, so a case of fraud against Adidas and the Louisville coach could maybe be made.
 
kg01

kg01

Get-Bak! Coach
Featured Member
Messages
14,434
Location
Atlanta
Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau said:
Yes arrested. I am not a big NBA fan, but didn't Chuck Person play in the NBA for several years. Shouldn't he have $12 or $15 million dollars somewhere? Why on God's green earth would you risk a felony indictment and prison for $91,000.00?
Click to expand...

Heh, not really. He probably didn't make all that much money in the league.
 

TheTechGuy

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
922
RonJohn said:
The complaint says that it was fraud because the coaches and executives knew that the players were ineligible. What I was saying is that if the players in fact played and attended classes, then they were doing what they should to abide by the scholarship. If the coaches got things set up, and the players had to sit out, or not attend classes because of issues involving the payments, then the school would have suffered harm.

In the Bowen case, it appears now that he probably won't play, so a case of fraud against Adidas and the Louisville coach could maybe be made.
Click to expand...
The issue isn't whether the school suffered harm due to players being declared ineligible to play while on campus. The issue is whether the coaches interfered with the universities ability to rightfully allocate sports scholarships (public funds) by intentionally signing players they knew to be ineligible.

The last few sentences in count three touch on this.
 
northgajacket

northgajacket

Banned
Messages
1,150
Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau said:
Yes arrested. I am not a big NBA fan, but didn't Chuck Person play in the NBA for several years. Shouldn't he have $12 or $15 million dollars somewhere? Why on God's green earth would you risk a felony indictment and prison for $91,000.00?
Click to expand...

He was never really a big star in the league and the salries in the NBA didn't really balloon up in the league until maybe the mid 1990's
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
During the announcement of the adidas deal, the adidas guy said they were only in about a dozen FBS schools and wanted to keep the total number down. What he probably said at the end of the sentence under his breath was 'because we can't afford all these dang kickbacks and under the table deals'.
 

a5ehren

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
457
Louisville is one of the "unnamed" teams, even if no coaches have been indicted there yet.

I think Pitino is looking at big trouble here.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
a5ehren said:
Louisville is one of the "unnamed" teams, even if no coaches have been indicted there yet.

I think Pitino is looking at big trouble here.
Click to expand...

Just think of all the squealing that is going to be going on everywhere to try and get lesser sentences. These guys will all squeal all the other guys out they were competing against in all these back room deals.
 
RonJohn

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,519
TheTechGuy said:
The issue isn't whether the school suffered harm due to players being declared ineligible to play while on campus. The issue is whether the coaches interfered with the universities ability to rightfully allocate sports scholarships (public funds) by intentionally signing players they knew to be ineligible.

The last few sentences in count three touch on this.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but I don't buy it. If a coach signs a player who isn't yet academically eligible are they guilty of fraud if the player never becomes eligible. If a coach signs a player who has eligibility issues, is he guilty of fraud if those issues can't be resolved?

I think that the whole AAU and apparel system for basketball has been very seedy for a very long time. I would like to see it get cleaned up. Hopefully these events will clean it up. However, I don't see how it can be fraud if a player gets a scholarship, goes to class, and plays basketball. The school received everything that it wanted from the award of the scholarship.
 
Top