Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

[dtm1997]

If GT returns to Russell Athletic in a few days, we'll know the answer is Bud Petersen.

 

[RamblinRed]

Interestingly, Matt Norlander reported last week that he thought this was playing much differently to the jury than to college basketball followers.

The Judge kept the trial very focused on the federal charges and made plain it was not a trial against the NCAA basketball system.

none of the jurors were college basketball fans.

The government argued that schools wouldn't be spending hundreds of thousands to millions on compliance departments if they weren't serious about eligibility. Clearly the jury bought that.

Note that alot of what we got to hear the jury never heard. Most of it was not allowed by the judge as being not relevant to the federal charges.

You have to remember that it was the defense attorneys that wanted to bring in most of the tapes and in essence make it about the college basketball system. The judge largely disallowed that.

This also effectively separates the coach from the University. Basically saying the coach is not always acting in the best interest of the school, just in their best interest.

Will certainly up the pressure on the defendants in the remaining two trials to cut a deal.

 

[jeffgt14]

Interestingly, Matt Norlander reported last week that he thought this was playing much differently to the jury than to college basketball followers.

The Judge kept the trial very focused on the federal charges and made plain it was not a trial against the NCAA basketball system.

none of the jurors were college basketball fans.

The government argued that schools wouldn't be spending hundreds of thousands to millions on compliance departments if they weren't serious about eligibility. Clearly the jury bought that.

Note that alot of what we got to hear the jury never heard. Most of it was not allowed by the judge as being not relevant to the federal charges.

You have to remember that it was the defense attorneys that wanted to bring in most of the tapes and in essence make it about the college basketball system. The judge largely disallowed that.

This also effectively separates the coach from the University. Basically saying the coach is not always acting in the best interest of the school, just in their best interest.

Will certainly up the pressure on the defendants in the remaining two trials to cut a deal.

And the NCAA will buy that excuse and not punish anyone either. They certainly don’t buy into the excuse that a wide receiver’s family member who gives him a bunch of used clothing isn’t acting in the interest of the school though.

 

[ESPNjacket]

This is a good explanation:

https://www.si.com/college-basketba...&utm_campaign=sinow&xid=socialflow_twitter_si

 

[Peacone36]

NCSTATE will get some punishment due to $40k payoff to a player. Assistant coach was involed. Most of this was AAU coaches getting the money from Adidas to funnel them to their brand. It will be hard to catch actual transfer of $ to the players from AAU coaches. Will be interesting to see where NCAA takes this.

Why? Everyone’s gone

 

[RonJohn]

@kg01 I am not surprised that they were convicted, but I am disappointed. I think that the reason they were convicted is something that was said early on in this discussion, federal fraud is defined so broadly that "fraud" is whatever a federal prosecutor decides that it is. I saw reports a few years ago that said that a federal prosecutor could make charges and convict ANY adult person in the US because the laws are so broadly written. In this case, the judge kept the evidence admissible very closely tied to the prosecutors' definition of the "fraud" in this case. I didn't read transcripts from the trial, but as I understand it:

• The government asked the compliance departments at the schools how serious they are about enforcing NCAA regulations.
• Yet, the defense was prevented from asking those compliance departments about how they responded to previous violations and what actions the schools took against the people who had committed those violations.
• The government presented these schools as being "defrauded" by the defendants.
• Yet, the defense was prevented from presenting evidence that other schools were in competition with these schools to get the players. Bowen's father denied that another school had made significant offers on the stand. The defense was prevented from playing tapes recorded by the FBI that supposedly have coaches from other schools asking for payments to players.

Also, the government was also able to convince the jurors that the coaches(who make the decisions about who to give scholarships to) are not authorized representatives of the universities. Maybe this is where I see it totally different. The coaches are indeed the ones who make decisions about scholarships. The coaches are the ones who are ultimately responsible for ensuring compliance with NCAA rules. The compliance departments: keep track of regulations, educate the coaches/players on regulations, and file paperwork. If the coaches and players are breaking NCAA rules to an extreme extent, the compliance departments are not going to be able to know that unless the coaches and/or players let them know. When CJP found out that there was an issue last year, he reported it to the compliance department to begin the processing of the issue. The compliance departments don't do detailed investigations of every financial transaction of every athlete on campus. The compliance departments don't monitor the communications of every athlete on campus to see if they are talking to sports agents. If the people in the compliance departments are the ones "responsible" for ensuring compliance and the coaches have no responsibility or authority, then the correct verdict was reached. I just don't see it that way. The coaches, who are the responsible authority at the universities, asked for the payments. Therefore, I can't see it as a "fraud" against the universities.

 

[RonJohn]

BTW, this conviction basically means that ANYONE who provides impermissible benefits to a student athlete can be convicted. $100 handshakes at Alabama, 3-5 years in prison if the person did ANYTHING that took him across state lines. A parent of a volleyball player takes the entire team out to Chili's for lunch, 3-5 years in prison if the parent did ANYTHING that took him across state lines. They used a high profile and sleazy case here, but the precedent is set that ANY NCAA violation is now a violation of federal fraud statues.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

There have been three people James Gatto,Merl Code and Christian Dawkins have been found guilty in the NCAA men's basketball pay for play scandal.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-b...ound-guilty-college-basketball-pay-play-trial

 

[lauraee]

http://amp.si.com/college-basketbal...ial-silvio-de-sousa?__twitter_impression=true

 

[RamblinRed]

I wouldn't have been surprised with any outcome in this trial but I think the general shock within the basketball community is largely due to the fact that it was largely mocked by those who follow college basketball. Almost every column I saw written was on how ludicrous the trial even taking place was, not whether it was even possible to win.

Only 2 reporters spent the majority of the trial in the courtroom - Matt Norlander and Dan Wetzel, just showing how little those in college basketball and those who cover it took it seriously.

Norlander, as I mentioned before, talked in one report about how different it was playing in the courtroom vs when he talked to people outside the courtroom. He mentioned that the defense attorneys were doing a poor job, often meandering and not asking focused questions and that you could see the jury rolling their eyes at times at the defense attorneys. Having sat on 2 juries (one criminal, one civil) it was obvious to me by those comments that the jurors were not buying at least some of what the defense attorneys were trying to argue.

The judge also made it clear from the beginning he was not going to allow the trial to be about the college basketball system, it would be about these 3 individuals and the charges against them, it took away a big piece of the defense plan to basically play the 'everybody does it' card. I'm sure there will be appeals but I don't expect much to come from them - those have to be based on matters of law, not you think the jury made an incorrect decision.

I'm interested to see how this affects future defendants. We have trials coming up in Feb and April - are those defendants now more likely to take plea deals and turn on higher ups in the food chain. Those 2 trials involve the asst coaches.

In my mind this also drives an interesting wedge between universities and coaches as employer and employee. The outcome basically says if the coach (an an employee) makes a decision that could defraud the university (employer) of federal funds, then the employee is committing a federal crime. It puts the HC in a much more precarious position if he wants to 'cheat' to get players to his school.

I have my own feelings about the current college basketball situation. I think a prospect should be allowed to earn money but not from the school itself. I've seen the comparison to say a concert pianist who earns income and attends a school. But the school is not paying the pianist beyond the scholarship money, that is being paid other organizations for the pianist's services. In the college basketball world that would mean the school can still provide the prospect a scholarship, but additional earnings come from other outside sources (shoe companies, agents, etc). I'd be fine with that. Heck, Darius Bazley took a $1M intern deal with New Balance last week instead of playing in the G'League - good for him. But if it ever got to the point where the universities were paying the prospects directly beyond the scholarship and stipend then that would probably be when I stop watching college sports. it's probably the point at which college sports should be detached from the colleges completely as at that point they are legitimately no longer a student, they are simply an employee.

 

[RamblinRed]

http://amp.si.com/college-basketbal...ial-silvio-de-sousa?__twitter_impression=true

100% agree with this article. Won't happen but it should.

We have reached the point in the column where the cool kids argue that NCAA amateurism rules are a joke and players should be able to accept whatever the market bears, even if it’s a black market. I understand the argument. I have made some form of it at times. But as long as the NCAA has rules, it has an obligation to enforce those rules—and even if you think players should be paid by anybody and everybody, there is still no justification for De Sousa sitting while Self coaches.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

100% agree with this article. Won't happen but it should.

We have reached the point in the column where the cool kids argue that NCAA amateurism rules are a joke and players should be able to accept whatever the market bears, even if it’s a black market. I understand the argument. I have made some form of it at times. But as long as the NCAA has rules, it has an obligation to enforce those rules—and even if you think players should be paid by anybody and everybody, there is still no justification for De Sousa sitting while Self coaches.

Bill Self should be fired as a message against corruption in College Basketball

 

[RamblinRed]

This is a really good overview of what happened, what is next and what it means both from a legal standpoint and from a college basketball standpoint by SI's legal analyst.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/10/24/ncaa-corruption-fbi-trial-verdict-analysis

How the case was won
"But prosecutors convinced jurors that they should regard the basketball program and its coaching staff as possessing disparate interests from the rest of the university. While the coach may gain from the enrollment of a superior player, the university provided that same player a full athletic scholarship and financial aid under a false pretense. Along those lines, the university and its admissions office staff purportedly believed that the player was eligible to play under NCAA rules when in fact he was not. The university, then, lost control of its finite financial assets, namely athletic scholarship and financial aid packages.

Further, by enrolling such a player, the school became at risk of punishment under NCAA amateurism rules. Likewise, prosecutors argued that there was intent to harm these schools: certain Adidas employees, agents, coaches and family members of the schools knowingly conspired to facilitate the enrollment of paid-off student athletes to the school."

Appeals process
"According to the Judiciary Data and Analysis Office of the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts, only 7% of criminal conviction appeals to federal appellate courts lead to reversals."
"A successful appeal is not one that claims the jury “got it wrong.” Rather, a successful appeal proves that the presiding judge—here, Judge Kaplan—made a mistake of law in his administration of the trial and that it was so meaningful as to lead to a wrongful conviction."
An appeal would likely take months if not over a year
An appeal is nothing like a trial.
the appellate panel takes the facts and testimony established in the trial as the revelant record. The panel then considers the defendants’ arguments that the law was misapplied. Far more often than not, convictions are upheld on appeal.

Future plea deals for other defendants
attorneys for Person, Richardson and the other defendants might strongly encourage their clients to weigh the possibility of seeking plea deals with prosecutors. Any plea deal would entail these defendants pleading guilty to crimes with the expectation that they would not face prison time or face much less time than the years that Gatto, Code and Dawkins will probably spend behind bars.
the defendants will need to play ball with the government. They’ll have to (1) share any electronic records—including phone records, emails, texts and bank transactions—as well as other evidence that could implicate notable figures in basketball (including potentially head coaches) and (2) agree to testify against others, possibly including those who hired, mentored and trusted them. As a result, in the coming weeks and months, additional persons in the basketball industry could be charged with crimes.

How it affects NCAA rules
While the NCAA was not a party in this trial, its ability to enforce compliance of rules stands to gain from it. The fact is, agents, sneaker executives and coaches will now be much less likely to “bribe” recruits. They know it’s possible that federal informants are watching. And they know they could face years in prison if caught. For that same reason, recruits and their parents can expect fewer offers of payments.

Affect on G League select contracts
To the extent a highly regarded high school basketball player believes he can go to college and get paid under-the-table, Wednesday’s convictions may cause that player to re-think his assumptions. The pot of money being dispensed could become a lot smaller. For that reason, the G League may become a much more attractive alternative.

 

[ESPNjacket]

This is a really good overview of what happened, what is next and what it means both from a legal standpoint and from a college basketball standpoint by SI's legal analyst.

I agree. That's why I linked it yesterday.

 

[RamblinRed]

I agree. That's why I linked it yesterday.

Sorry ESPN, didn't see it above, must be getting blind in my old age.

 

[ESPNjacket]

Sorry ESPN, didn't see it above, must be getting blind in my old age.

Open wide!

I'm still amazed that the jury believes the universities are the victims of fraud.

 

[YlJacket]

In the end it should dry up the sneaker money under the table for players going to college. The change will be sneaker companies pushing players to the GLeague where they can give them money with no problems. It will be interesting to see what level of shoe contract it takes to make the GLeague a better option overall for players. I don't think the current $125K potential is going to change things much at all - add a whatever amount of real dollars from a shoe company and that could really change things.

 

[jeffgt14]

In the end it should dry up the sneaker money under the table for players going to college. The change will be sneaker companies pushing players to the GLeague where they can give them money with no problems. It will be interesting to see what level of shoe contract it takes to make the GLeague a better option overall for players. I don't think the current $125K potential is going to change things much at all - add a whatever amount of real dollars from a shoe company and that could really change things.

Great point. I'm just not sure whether the shoe companies will actually push anyone towards the G-League. They're going to want these kids to actually be seen on TV and have fans.

 

[dtm1997]

In the end it should dry up the sneaker money under the table for players going to college. The change will be sneaker companies pushing players to the GLeague where they can give them money with no problems. It will be interesting to see what level of shoe contract it takes to make the GLeague a better option overall for players. I don't think the current $125K potential is going to change things much at all - add a whatever amount of real dollars from a shoe company and that could really change things.

Could just push the sneaker companies to increase their funding of the AAU & HS teams, kinda like Marvin Bagley.

 

[kg01]

Not expecting much change unless/until the net round of defendants take pleas. Then things could get interesting. In the meantime ...