Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

RonJohn

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I do believe that sometimes assistants will get aggressive in pursuit of landing a recruit to make themselves look better and further their careers. Head coaches can't control everything that their assistants do no matter how much of a micro manager they are (See Nick Saban and Lane Kiffen).

I do understand that people you supervise sometimes do things that you can't anticipate and/or control. However, Pitino tries to display the Saban type of total control, or at least he did until the scandals. Like I said it reminded me of Paterno. You can't question his abilities and authority at all. Then all of a sudden, he was only a frail old man taken advantage of by more powerful people. You can be a strong leader with underlings who do bad things. But if you are a strong leader and underlings do bad things once, then you would make extra efforts to find out what your underlings are doing and monitor it. Pitino was either a poor and weak leader who had no idea about anything in his program or he was a strong leader that directed the assistants to do the things they did. It isn't possible that he was a strong leader who had a personal scandal and then two major NCAA scandals in a few years.
 

Techster

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I do understand that people you supervise sometimes do things that you can't anticipate and/or control. However, Pitino tries to display the Saban type of total control, or at least he did until the scandals. Like I said it reminded me of Paterno. You can't question his abilities and authority at all. Then all of a sudden, he was only a frail old man taken advantage of by more powerful people. You can be a strong leader with underlings who do bad things. But if you are a strong leader and underlings do bad things once, then you would make extra efforts to find out what your underlings are doing and monitor it. Pitino was either a poor and weak leader who had no idea about anything in his program or he was a strong leader that directed the assistants to do the things they did. It isn't possible that he was a strong leader who had a personal scandal and then two major NCAA scandals in a few years.

Yup...that was pretty much my point about Pitino. At some point, the man can't say "I had no idea" anymore. Just doesn't cut it regardless if he really knew or not especially after scandal upon scandal breaks out under his watch.
 

Peacone36

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I supervise anywhere from 20-100 people at a time depending on phase of a project over an 18-24 month period. I may not know what my guys are doing while theyre doing it, but I’m going to find out at some point.
 

kg01

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RamblinRed

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This shouldn't shock many considering, as soon as this stuff came up, the kid/family lawyered up.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...ahvon-quinerly-cancels-commitment-to-arizona/



I hadn't seen that it was alleged previously that Richardson had provided him impermissible benefits.

it was in the initial complaint against Richardson. Quinerly was not mentioned by name but it was not hard to figure out who it was.
It mentioned a 5* PG from the NE who was expected to be on campus and commit around August 9th (he was on campus at that time and committed on the 11th).
Richardson was allegedly given $20K to get the kid to AZ and steer him to Dawkins management company.

There was just so much other stuff that wasn't even getting heavy play.
 

RamblinRed

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Pitino also claims to be innocent. Wasn't he coach-2?

Yes I believe you are correct.

FWIW, Little and his dad testified under oath to the FBI that they had no knowledge of payments to them to pick a school. So everyone in that scenario - Little's, Larranaga, Arizona are all saying they have no knowledge of anything,
 

orientalnc

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There are cynical bones in my body. I was a college student when Nixon resigned. And, remember, he was not, in his opinion, a crook. But Boeheim thinks most people would rather the FBI be investigating terrorists (brown people) than college basketball (rich white guys). That position is not only self serving, but also assumes most people do not think bribery and fraud are serious crimes. Does he not remember 2007? Oh, silly me. I forgot that no one went to jail for that either.
 

Sebastian GT

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Yes I believe you are correct.

FWIW, Little and his dad testified under oath to the FBI that they had no knowledge of payments to them to pick a school. So everyone in that scenario - Little's, Larranaga, Arizona are all saying they have no knowledge of anything,
How convenient.

giphy.gif
 

Connell62

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There are cynical bones in my body. I was a college student when Nixon resigned. And, remember, he was not, in his opinion, a crook. But Boeheim thinks most people would rather the FBI be investigating terrorists (brown people) than college basketball (rich white guys). That position is not only self serving, but also assumes most people do not think bribery and fraud are serious crimes. Does he not remember 2007? Oh, silly me. I forgot that no one went to jail for that either.

Wha??? I don't think he was lobbying for the spotlight to be taken off of rich white guys. If you haven't noticed, there are white and black guys embroiled in this situation.

That comment is not about (brown people) but people trying to blow up the United States. IMO, he kinda has a point...don't they have bigger fish to fry?

I'll probably regret responding to this point, but I can't believe that was the conclusion you drew from that.
 

orientalnc

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Wha??? I don't think he was lobbying for the spotlight to be taken off of rich white guys. If you haven't noticed, there are white and black guys embroiled in this situation.

That comment is not about (brown people) but people trying to blow up the United States. IMO, he kinda has a point...don't they have bigger fish to fry?

I'll probably regret responding to this point, but I can't believe that was the conclusion you drew from that.
I see your point, but the FBI has a gazillion people focused on terrorism. It also has people focused on white collar crime. This subject could turn into a real political argument and this is not the forum for that. It is my fault for bringing it up.
 

RamblinRed

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The Larranaga saga could get interesting.

His exact words from his PC are "I did nothing wrong". That's different than saying I am innocent or I did not commit any violations. This reminds me of an article a couple of weeks ago where a basketball writer said he talked to alot of coaches and almost to a man their response to what was happening was "I didn't know what I was doing was wrong or illegal". I think in the industry it is just accepted as common practice.

I went back and looked at the indictment this morning, the good news is that it appears he is not on any wiretaps - rather coach-3 comes up in discussions on wiretaps between Dawkins and Code and Code and Gatto.

if the first call on Aug 9 Dawkins and Code discuss paying player-12 (Little?) and/or his family 'at the request of at least one coach from University-7 (Miami) ("Coach-3")'.
Dawkins and Code also discuss the involvement of coach-3 in ensuring that company-1 would funnel payments to player-12 to secure player-12's commitment to play at University-7.
Finally, on the call it is stated that according to Jonathan Brad Augustine that "coach-3 knows everything" and they could "start the process" to funnel the payments to player-12.

on a call on August 11 between Gatto and Code discussing the payment scheme Code says "University-7 wants this kid named player-12".
Gatto says to Code that he already knew about University-7's request and he had spoken to coach-3.
In a footnote it states that Gatto had 2 telephone calls with a cellphone number believed to be used by coach-3 on August 6.

It feels like Miami's situation, and particularly coach-3, are going to be tied up into how much Gatto, Code and Dawkins are willing to talk.

What's interesting to me are there are 2 different things going on here. First is the legal piece - which is what the FBI is interested in. Coach 3 may be largely ok here since he is not on any of the wiretaps directly.

The second part is NCAA violations. You do not need to pay a prospect to violate NCAA rules, you simply need to know about payments. In that sense, it would appear that coach-3 could be insignificant trouble. But right now all this info resides with the FBI and given this is an ongoing investigation I got to imagine the FBI will not be in any rush to turn the evidence over to the NCAA - which means it could be years before the NCAA would have the evidence to do anything.

It appears as though right now the NCAA is likely to let the schools self report and take action and then once the NCAA actually has any evidence, then they will look to possibly take action and see what the school did before the NCAA gets the information.
 

orientalnc

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The Larranaga saga could get interesting.

His exact words from his PC are "I did nothing wrong". That's different than saying I am innocent or I did not commit any violations. This reminds me of an article a couple of weeks ago where a basketball writer said he talked to alot of coaches and almost to a man their response to what was happening was "I didn't know what I was doing was wrong or illegal". I think in the industry it is just accepted as common practice.

I went back and looked at the indictment this morning, the good news is that it appears he is not on any wiretaps - rather coach-3 comes up in discussions on wiretaps between Dawkins and Code and Code and Gatto.

if the first call on Aug 9 Dawkins and Code discuss paying player-12 (Little?) and/or his family 'at the request of at least one coach from University-7 (Miami) ("Coach-3")'.
Dawkins and Code also discuss the involvement of coach-3 in ensuring that company-1 would funnel payments to player-12 to secure player-12's commitment to play at University-7.
Finally, on the call it is stated that according to Jonathan Brad Augustine that "coach-3 knows everything" and they could "start the process" to funnel the payments to player-12.

on a call on August 11 between Gatto and Code discussing the payment scheme Code says "University-7 wants this kid named player-12".
Gatto says to Code that he already knew about University-7's request and he had spoken to coach-3.
In a footnote it states that Gatto had 2 telephone calls with a cellphone number believed to be used by coach-3 on August 6.

It feels like Miami's situation, and particularly coach-3, are going to be tied up into how much Gatto, Code and Dawkins are willing to talk.

What's interesting to me are there are 2 different things going on here. First is the legal piece - which is what the FBI is interested in. Coach 3 may be largely ok here since he is not on any of the wiretaps directly.

The second part is NCAA violations. You do not need to pay a prospect to violate NCAA rules, you simply need to know about payments. In that sense, it would appear that coach-3 could be insignificant trouble. But right now all this info resides with the FBI and given this is an ongoing investigation I got to imagine the FBI will not be in any rush to turn the evidence over to the NCAA - which means it could be years before the NCAA would have the evidence to do anything.

It appears as though right now the NCAA is likely to let the schools self report and take action and then once the NCAA actually has any evidence, then they will look to possibly take action and see what the school did before the NCAA gets the information.
Thanks for posting this really interesting piece. The question your post raises for me is whether the NCAA really needs the FBI information in order to begin an investigation of their own. If Gatto, Code, or Dawkins is willing to talk to the NCAA, they could proceed with whatever they have. At some point the NCAA has to take some action on something more significant than a pair of shoes or a few T-shirts. Otherwise they really do not serve any purpose at all.
 

YlJacket

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Thanks for posting this really interesting piece. The question your post raises for me is whether the NCAA really needs the FBI information in order to begin an investigation of their own. If Gatto, Code, or Dawkins is willing to talk to the NCAA, they could proceed with whatever they have. At some point the NCAA has to take some action on something more significant than a pair of shoes or a few T-shirts. Otherwise they really do not serve any purpose at all.

None of those guys (or anyone else caught up with the FBI) are going to say word one to the NCAA until their case with the FBI is closed. Their lawyer would stick whatever rag he could find in their mouth. But once that case is closed - or at least underway - the FBI information can be conveyed to the NCAA who should go nuts with it. Unless of course other students were getting Adiddas contracts too.
 

orientalnc

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None of those guys (or anyone else caught up with the FBI) are going to say word one to the NCAA until their case with the FBI is closed. Their lawyer would stick whatever rag he could find in their mouth. But once that case is closed - or at least underway - the FBI information can be conveyed to the NCAA who should go nuts with it. Unless of course other students were getting Adiddas contracts too.
If the FBI has wiretap recordings of the conversations, denial is a hopeless defense. Their best path forward is to cooperate and try to negotiate for leniency. Showing they are willing to help change the culture would be a big help with their own cases with the FBI.
 

RonJohn

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If the FBI has wiretap recordings of the conversations, denial is a hopeless defense. Their best path forward is to cooperate and try to negotiate for leniency. Showing they are willing to help change the culture would be a big help with their own cases with the FBI.

Cooperating with the FBI might bring some leniency, but the NCAA has absolutely zero influence into the legal matters. I would not expect anyone involved to have any discussions with any outside parties.
 

kg01

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Track how many times your "BS" meter goes off if you choose to read this interview of TrickyRicky ...

http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/10/26/...ms-killed-one-top-recruiting-classes-history/

Does he still not realize this isn't the ham-fisted UNCAA he's dealing with?
“Terry, nobody got indicted,” Pitino said from Tampa, Fla. “No system coaches got indicted. Nothing happened yet. The facts haven’t been out. They rushed to judgment. They killed my dreams. They killed some of the players’ dreams who wanted to play for me. They killed one of the top recruiting classes in the history of my tenure without any facts going on. Now that’s OK. I’m a big boy, and I’ll land on my feet the right way when the truth comes out.
Try not to allow your eyes to roll out of your head ...
Pitino was also asked about former assistant Jordan Fair, identified as Coach-1 in the FBI documents, and why he is on an FBI video recording inside a Las Vegas hotel room talking to an Adidas executive about funneling money to a recruit’s family.

“Well, I don’t have the facts to any of that, and I’m not going to hang him out to dry,” Pitino said.
 
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