Anthem Protests

[Squints]

Here is a timeline of events: https://www.sbnation.com/2016/9/11/...-anthem-protest-seahawks-brandon-marshall-nfl

The incident that was noticed happened on August 26th. The statement referred to in the article you posted was given on August 28th. If my math is correct, that is two days later.

And from that time line:

Kaepernick told the media after the game he sat because of the oppression of people of color and ongoing issues with police brutality.

The only statement referenced in the article I posted is:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

If my understanding of the words "interview after the game" are correct the interview happened after the game. On the 26th. It's in the embedded video as well.

So, I am correct in saying that he had an off the cuff response to questions the day of the event, and then released an official statement two days later.

You would indeed be correct. But this isn't what you said in your first post. You may not put a lot of faith in off the cuff statements but it happened.

I said that I can't say for certain that he wasn't protesting, but I don't put a lot of faith in off the cuff remarks which could be an attempt to cover for perceived wrongdoing.

I understood you. And like I said that seems overly cynical IMO. He covered for perceived wrongdoing by going to bat for one of the most polarizing issues in the country today? Is his continued work for that cause just still cover over a year later? I have a hard time buying that. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to change your mind.

Also, read the last four paragraphs in the article that you linked to. Kaepernick had requested a trade. His relationship with 49er's management was soured. He wasn't happy. Kelly said that there had not been any talk about cutting him. However the media was speculating wildly that he would be cut.

I remember all of this as it was happening. The 49ers were a mess at the time and it's why they cleaned house after the season. His leash with them the previous season was very short. Not surprising he was unhappy. All true. But the national sports media blew the situation out of proportion.

As to his career: He does not fit the prototypical NFL QB model. When he was playing well, you could build an offense around him as SF did. However, he doesn't fit to roll into an offense as a backup in my opinion. The offense would have to be adjusted to fit his style. I think that is one negative that Vick had in Atlanta. When he broke his leg, the offense couldn't adjust well to the backup. Tebow wasn't the same style QB as Vick or Kaepernick, but he had the same issue. Most NFL positions are made for sit in the pocket passers. Vick, Tebow, nor Kaepernick fit that model. Vick was on another level of athleticism than the other guys, and that is why his career lasted longer. I don't believe that Kaepernick is out of a job because of his protests. I believe his career was ending before any of this began.

I've spent more time dissecting Kap the QB on the internet than I care to admit so not much of an argument from me here. Except your last two sentences. He definitely presents a challenge if you're trying to incorporate him in your roster and his game has got warts. But while his protests probably aren't the main reason he hasn't gotten a job, if you don't think they've played some kind of role you're not paying attention. Look what happened with the Ravens.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Well I definitely think Kap's protest plays a large part in his unemployment. Half the leagues qb's suck and Kap is definitely at least capable. Kap initially wasn't even recognized for protesting and he didn't make it known to the media what he was doing. A reporter noticed him and that's when everything started.

Kap doesn't have a QB job because he became incapable of throwing for more yards than interceptions. If he could win he'd still be playing, protest or not. Proven by all the players kneeling and playing.

The whole NFL protest reasoning has been co-op'd by several groups. The NFL is protecting itself with their statements, they have less to do with criminal justice inequality and police murder and more to do with protecting the shield.

Not following but that's probably a failure on my end.

I support anyone's ability to protest peacefully and non violently. I'm still amazed at the vilification of doing something so non descriptive. Now what angers me is the value people are placing in a piece of cloth over actual living breathing human beings. I hope to God no one is actually fighting for a flag. The flag is a symbol and a symbol only. It symbolizes the United States and to my knowledge the United States is not just the military and the police.

Would you support a co-worker wearing Klan robes to work because it's just a piece of cloth and not hurting anyone? That's more extreme sure but no company should tolerate that.

 

[Squints]

I have said the same thing. I believe this was concocted by his agent so there would be a better chance he would be on the 49ers. If he was cut then he could claim he was cut because of what he did. Similar to Craig Hodges from the 1991 Bulls team who made a political statement at the White House visit and then claimed the NBA blackballed him bc of his association with Farrakhan.

His agent concocted a plan so that there would be a better chance he would be on the team he was actively trying to get him traded from? A plan that would make him a PR nightmare for any other team to sign if said plan failed and he was indeed cut from the 49ers? Bold move by the agent.

 

[ATL1]

Kap had 16 TD's to 4 INT's last season with a trash team.
72 TD's to 30 INT's over his career.
http://www.nfl.com/player/colinkaepernick/2495186/careerstats

Both supporters of Kap and 45's followers are calling to boycott the NFL.

The Klan rob thing is such a false equivalence. NFL players are employees to their team but not owned. They each have a constitutional right to protest. There is no clause you have to stand for the national anthem on your job, that would be unconstitutional & illegal.

 

[smathis30]

Kaeprtnick has the third highest TD/interception ratio among active NFL QBs. He may have spiked inbinterceptions towards the end but to think that's the reason why is absurd

 

[northgajacket]

His agent concocted a plan so that there would be a better chance he would be on the team he was actively trying to get him traded from? A plan that would make him a PR nightmare for any other team to sign if said plan failed and he was indeed cut from the 49ers? Bold move by the agent.

He wasn't valuable on the trade block and they knew it, he has a reputation for being a diva. I'm sorry you believe everything you hear.

 

[RonJohn]

You may not put a lot of faith in off the cuff statements but it happened.

All off the cuff statements happen. If they didn't happen, then they wouldn't be off the cuff statements. He was upset. He was frustrated with the team and his status with the team. IF he was sitting because he was ticked off at his whole situation, he would probably not have said that when asked by the media. As I said before, IF he had announced protests before taking action, I would believe him. Since he was just responding to criticism, I don't put a lot of faith in the comments. He then followed up with a more thought out and polished response days later. If this was a planned and thought out protest, I would think he would have a response well thought out before hand.

I understood you. And like I said that seems overly cynical IMO. He covered for perceived wrongdoing by going to bat for one of the most polarizing issues in the country today? Is his continued work for that cause just still cover over a year later? I have a hard time buying that. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to change your mind.

If he did make this up as an excuse(which I am not claiming, just saying that I don't have confidence), then to just drop it would be an admission of lying. IF he made it up, he went from actually being a petty vindictive whiner to being the leader of a movement. I don't think it would be possible for him to just drop it either way.

I remember all of this as it was happening. The 49ers were a mess at the time and it's why they cleaned house after the season. His leash with them the previous season was very short. Not surprising he was unhappy. All true. But the national sports media blew the situation out of proportion.

And this is why I can just as easily believe that he was ticked off at the team and not showing respect for anyone or anything instead of actively protesting anything. As I have stated several times, I don't believe that he was being petty, but I also don't believe that he was being noble. I don't see enough evidence to convince me either way.

I've spent more time dissecting Kap the QB on the internet than I care to admit so not much of an argument from me here. Except your last two sentences. He definitely presents a challenge if you're trying to incorporate him in your roster and his game has got warts. But while his protests probably aren't the main reason he hasn't gotten a job, if you don't think they've played some kind of role you're not paying attention. Look what happened with the Ravens.

I don't doubt that the play some role. I think that it has a lot more to do with him as a QB than anything else. If you are a QB that a team would take a marginal look at everything else needs to be perfect. If Brett Favre had his alcohol problem and was a marginal QB, he would not have been in the league as long. NFL teams are typically risk adverse to the point of being super conservative. For the most part, coaches and GMs don't want to take chances. I think it is likely that if Harbaugh had not been the coach of the 49ers, Kaepernick might not have gotten the chance that he did in SF.

 

[AE 87]

Well I definitely think Kap's protest plays a large part in his unemployment. Half the leagues qb's suck and Kap is definitely at least capable. Kap initially wasn't even recognized for protesting and he didn't make it known to the media what he was doing. A reporter noticed him and that's when everything started.

The whole NFL protest reasoning has been co-op'd by several groups. The NFL is protecting itself with their statements, they have less to do with criminal justice inequality and police murder and more to do with protecting the shield.

I support anyone's ability to protest peacefully and non violently. I'm still amazed at the vilification of doing something so non descriptive. Now what angers me is the value people are placing in a piece of cloth over actual living breathing human beings. I hope to God no one is actually fighting for a flag. The flag is a symbol and a symbol only. It symbolizes the United States and to my knowledge the United States is not just the military and the police.

Thanks for this post. I was wondering where the misunderstanding was in this debate. This post clarifies at least one misunderstanding.

I think if you ask people who are offended, they are not placing the value of a piece of cloth over actual living breathing human beings. In fact, until I read your post, I would never have imagined it to be possible that an adult could come to that conclusion. You are right in saying that the flag is a symbol for the United States which is not just the military and the police. Let me say your words again, the flag is a symbol of the United States which is not just the military and the police. I'm sorry, but I really think that I need to underline your own words one more time, the flag is a symbol of the United States which is not just the military and the police.

So, when people say they are fighting for the flag, they are fighting for the United States, all of us, and not just the military and the police. And, get this, when you protest the flag and the national anthem, you are protesting the United States AND NOT JUST THE MILITARY AND THE POLICE.

That's why it is an ignorant protest. Supporters of this protest are acting emotionally and without thought.

 

[ATL1]

He wasn't valuable on the trade block and they knew it, he has a reputation for being a diva. I'm sorry you believe everything you hear.

That's why he won this award?

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.time...kaepernick-49ers-len-eshmont-award?source=dam

And Chip Kelly said this:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/439047001/

And Jim Harbough says this:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.time...n-kaepernick-time-100-jim-harbaugh?source=dam

 

[northgajacket]

That's why he won this award?

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/nfl/2016/12/30/colin-kaepernick-49ers-len-eshmont-award?source=dam

And Chip Kelly said this:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/439047001/

And Jim Harbough says this:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/si/nfl/2017/04/24/colin-kaepernick-time-100-jim-harbaugh?source=dam

You spelled Harbaugh's name wrong. I still believe my theory.I have seen plenty of times in my life where teammates will praise another teammate for the sake of protecting the team.

 

[ATL1]

Thanks for this post. I was wondering where the misunderstanding was in this debate. This post clarifies at least one misunderstanding.

I think if you ask people who are offended, they are not placing the value of a piece of cloth over actual living breathing human beings. In fact, until I read your post, I would never have imagined it to be possible that an adult could come to that conclusion. You are right in saying that the flag is a symbol for the United States which is not just the military and the police. Let me say your words again, the flag is a symbol of the United States which is not just the military and the police. I'm sorry, but I really think that I need to underline your own words one more time, the flag is a symbol of the United States which is not just the military and the police.

So, when people say they are fighting for the flag, they are fighting for the United States, all of us, and not just the military and the police. And, get this, when you protest the flag and the national anthem, you are protesting the United States AND NOT JUST THE MILITARY AND THE POLICE.

That's why it is an ignorant protest. Supporters of this protest are acting emotionally and without thought.

Which is why the protest is founded actually. While police brutality and murder is a point of contention it's not the only point.

 

[ATL1]

Wow three people out of how many? BTW you spelled Harbaugh's name wrong.

His TEAM is more than three.

 

[northgajacket]

His TEAM is more than three.

Read updated post.

 

[ATL1]

He's such a diva that he keeps winning these awards:
https://www.google.com/amp/profootb...colin-kaepernick-its-community-mvp-award/amp/

 

[northgajacket]

He's such a diva that he keeps winning these awards:
https://www.google.com/amp/profootb...colin-kaepernick-its-community-mvp-award/amp/

Didn't Eugene Robinson win some good guy award right before he was caught trying to buy a hooker? Don't believe everything you hear, athletes and celebs do "goodwill" acts all the time in order to garner a good rep.

 

[RonJohn]

But while his protests probably aren't the main reason he hasn't gotten a job, if you don't think they've played some kind of role you're not paying attention. Look what happened with the Ravens.

Another thing about his protests being the reason that he doesn't have a job. Aren't the owners that are supposedly blacklisting him the same owners that were on the field yesterday with the current players locking arms?

 

[northgajacket]

Another thing about his protests being the reason that he doesn't have a job. Aren't the owners that are supposedly blacklisting him the same owners that were on the field yesterday with the current players locking arms?

Like LaSean McCoy said: " His play isn't worth the hassle" not the exact quote but close enough.

 

[ATL1]

If anything the complaint on Kap was he was too quiet and aloof not a diva.

http://m.tmz.com/#2015/10/29/colin-kaepernick-headphones-pissing-off-teammates/

“It’s not that [the players] don’t like him. But he’s just alone, on an island in that locker room. There’s not a lot of people he connects with."
https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.c...and-the-49ers-have-a-locker-room-problem/amp/

 

[northgajacket]

If anything the complaint on Kap was he was too quiet and aloof not a diva.

http://m.tmz.com/#2015/10/29/colin-kaepernick-headphones-pissing-off-teammates/

“It’s not that [the players] don’t like him. But he’s just alone, on an island in that locker room. There’s not a lot of people he connects with."
https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.c...and-the-49ers-have-a-locker-room-problem/amp/

If a QB doesn't connect with teammates that is a problem and liability, besides "diva" is just mainly an umbrella term for someone who acts like they are better than the rest, it could be in a aloof way.

 

[ATL1]

Another thing about his protests being the reason that he doesn't have a job. Aren't the owners that are supposedly blacklisting him the same owners that were on the field yesterday with the current players locking arms?

Which is why it's a farce. That protest this weekend had nothing to do with Kap or it's original intent.