ACC Tournament

[senoiajacket]

I do find it interesting that the higher seeded team (Wake) has to play the next highest seeded team on no rest compared to a day off for Miami. I would have thought that they'd open with the easiest game (Georgia Tech) and then get a day off before playing Miami. But that would only make sense if you're scheduling games to give the highest seeded team the best chance for winning instead of the middle seed.

The higher seed has tremendous advantages. They only have to go 1-1 to advance (as long as their 1 win is against the lower seed who won) whereas both of the lower seeds can only advance by going 2-0. So, it doesn't really matter for wake that they play us tomorrow, as it is a "don't care" game for them anyway. In essence, Wale gets to sit back and see who gets effectively eliminated in the first game, and then strategize accordingly

 

[Deleted member 2897]

The higher seed has tremendous advantages. They only have to go 1-1 to advance (as long as their 1 win is against the lower seed who won) whereas both of the lower seeds can only advance by going 2-0. So, it doesn't really matter for wake that they play us tomorrow, as it is a "don't care" game for them anyway. In essence, Wale gets to sit back and see who gets effectively eliminated in the first game, and then strategize accordingly

Makes no sense to me though. Miami will be playing Wake after having a day off. Wake will be playing their second day in a row. Whoever wins moves on. 1 game series. Advantage not the highest seed. I mean I guess Wake can just play the entire deep part of their bench tomorrow and say who cares, but that is just odd.

 

[FredJacket]

Makes no sense to me though. Miami will be playing Wake after having a day off. Wake will be playing their second day in a row. Whoever wins moves on. 1 game series. Advantage not the highest seed. I mean I guess Wake can just play the entire deep part of their bench tomorrow and say who cares, but that is just odd.

It is odd. But had Tech won today, Wake would be playing us for chance to advance with huge advantage because they'd come into game rested a day after we played.

All pools play out this way. Basically.... 1st game (between lower seeds) is elimination game. That sets up 2 games involving the top seed in pool. One meaningless game & one winner moves on to semis game (& order of those depends on who won Game1).

The format does give advantage to the top 4 seeds. And rightly so IMO...because a 30 game ACC schedule should factor into who's playing in semifinal/championship.

 

[FredJacket]

Will be interesting to see how Hall approaches the game. I'd be fine with some serious experimentation/rewarding players.

Some immediate thoughts:
-Curry to short or DH. Give him 4-6 plate appearances
-Start Gooden. Have a relief pitcher ready... in case, you know
-Plan to have a new pitcher start each inning (not Lee, Datoc or Ryan).
-Have a plan to not lay a bunt down... no matter what.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

you got it.

Yeah, we did. I couldn't decide on vodka or Irish Whiskey tonight so I bought one of each. Need some medicine for the pain.

 

[senoiajacket]

Makes no sense to me though. Miami will be playing Wake after having a day off. Wake will be playing their second day in a row. Whoever wins moves on. 1 game series. Advantage not the highest seed. I mean I guess Wake can just play the entire deep part of their bench tomorrow and say who cares, but that is just odd.

Ok, look at it this way. Wake vs GT (or for that matter wake vs Miami) in the opener. Wake has to make a decsion, do they throw their #1 or not? since they don't play that game, they can hold their #1 knowing who they will need them against. If GT or MIAMI hold their #1 in the first game (which I think Miami did). They face a big chance that their #1 may be pitching a meaningless game. Also, other than relief pitching, having to play back to back days doesn't make much difference (i will agree that it is odd that they have the wake GT @7pm and then wake has to come back at 3pm .... UL has to do the same thing on Wednesday) They've been doing it every weekend for 3 months now. Anyway, if I'm Wake, I'd rather have it the order it's scheduled in than any other

 

[senoiajacket]

Will be interesting to see how Hall approaches the game. I'd be fine with some serious experimentation/rewarding players.

Some immediate thoughts
-Have a plan to not lay a bunt down... no matter what.

^^^^^^^^^^
You too funny.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

It is odd. But had Tech won today, Wake would be playing us for chance to advance with huge advantage because they'd come into game rested a day after we played.

All pools play out this way. Basically.... 1st game (between lower seeds) is elimination game. That sets up 2 games involving the top seed in pool. One meaningless game & one winner moves on to semis game (& order of those depends on who won Game1).

The format does give advantage to the top 4 seeds. And rightly so IMO...because a 30 game ACC schedule should factor into who's playing in semifinal/championship.

If I had set this up, I'd have Wake playing us day 1 - easiest game, and meaningless game. Then day 2 Wake would have off. Miami would be predicted to win as they are the higher seed than Tech, and so they'd be given a day off to play Tech who would now be playing for the second day in a row. Whoever wins (Miami predicted) would then play Wake

Ok, look at it this way. Wake vs GT (or for that matter wake vs Miami) in the opener. Wake has to make a decsion, do they throw their #1 or not? since they don't play that game, they can hold their #1 knowing who they will need them against. If GT or MIAMI hold their #1 in the first game (which I think Miami did). They face a big chance that their #1 may be pitching a meaningless game. Also, other than relief pitching, having to play back to back days doesn't make much difference (i will agree that it is odd that they have the wake GT @7pm and then wake has to come back at 3pm .... UL has to do the same thing on Wednesday) They've been doing it every weekend for 3 months now. Anyway, if I'm Wake, I'd rather have it the order it's scheduled in than any other

The more I've thought about it, the more stupid I think it is. If both other teams have to go 2-0, then it should just be a bye for the higher seeded team. GT plays Miami on Day 1, then on Day 2 the winner plays Wake to see who advances. The End. The way they do it today doesn't fully favor the highest seeded team, and it creates a meaningless game, which makes less than no sense. There shouldn't ever be a game where its completely pointless to someone. Imagine playing a 7 game series and 1 team gets up 4 wins to 2 but they decide to play 1 more game anyway. Huh?

 

[senoiajacket]

Not to make excuses, but I gotta believe we win that game w/ Bart & Kel available. Disappointed that Wade couldn't drive in the winning run in the 8th, and in general our ineptness w RISP, but we haven't been that good at it the back half of the season, so should have not been a surprise.

 

[AE 87]

It is odd. But had Tech won today, Wake would be playing us for chance to advance with huge advantage because they'd come into game rested a day after we played.

All pools play out this way. Basically.... 1st game (between lower seeds) is elimination game. That sets up 2 games involving the top seed in pool. One meaningless game & one winner moves on to semis game (& order of those depends on who won Game1).

The format does give advantage to the top 4 seeds. And rightly so IMO...because a 30 game ACC schedule should factor into who's playing in semifinal/championship.

This.

 

[senoiajacket]

If I had set this up, I'd have Wake playing us day 1 - easiest game, and meaningless game. Then day 2 Wake would have off. Miami would be predicted to win as they are the higher seed than Tech, and so they'd be given a day off to play Tech who would now be playing for the second day in a row. Whoever wins (Miami predicted) would then play Wake


The more I've thought about it, the more stupid I think it is. If both other teams have to go 2-0, then it should just be a bye for the higher seeded team. GT plays Miami on Day 1, then on Day 2 the winner plays Wake to see who advances. The End. The way they do it today doesn't fully favor the highest seeded team, and it creates a meaningless game, which makes less than no sense. There shouldn't ever be a game where its completely pointless to someone. Imagine playing a 7 game series and 1 team gets up 4 wins to 2 but they decide to play 1 more game anyway. Huh?

Yeah, the only way there isn't a meaningless game is if tech beats Miami, And wake beats tech. If you go back to the first page of this thread there is an interesting link that discusses the format in depth.

 

[THWG]

Will be interesting to see how Hall approaches the game. I'd be fine with some serious experimentation/rewarding players.

Some immediate thoughts:
-Curry to short or DH. Give him 4-6 plate appearances
-Start Gooden. Have a relief pitcher ready... in case, you know
-Plan to have a new pitcher start each inning (not Lee, Datoc or Ryan).
-Have a plan to not lay a bunt down... no matter what.

I completely agree with you. Like I posted earlier, I would like to see Hughes or Gooden get the start and then maybe have Archer or Thomas as the first out of the pen. I really just want to see good baseball tomorrow night and see the guys grab one more win before they head into summer ball.

 

[senoiajacket]

Yeah, the only way there isn't a meaningless game is if tech beats Miami, And wake beats tech. If you go back to the first page of this thread there is an interesting link that discusses the format in depth.

Oh wait, that still has a meaningless game ...... The last one

 

[senoiajacket]

We are playing tomorrow to keep from
Having a losing record, the first since 1981, the last year Jim Luck coached us (and my sophomore year at Tech). Man, that was a LONG time ago!

 

[FredJacket]

We are playing tomorrow to keep from
Having a losing record, the first since 1981, the last year Jim Luck coached us (and my sophomore year at Tech). Man, that was a LONG time ago!

Doggonit! Just when the care was almost gone....
... you go and point that out.

 

[awbuzz]

We are playing tomorrow to keep from
Having a losing record, the first since 1981, the last year Jim Luck coached us (and my sophomore year at Tech). Man, that was a LONG time ago!

A good reason to follow the game then.

Except for being a glutton for punishment I was probably just going to check in at the end and tomorrow's game.

 

[FredJacket]

If I had set this up, I'd have Wake playing us day 1 - easiest game, and meaningless game. Then day 2 Wake would have off. Miami would be predicted to win as they are the higher seed than Tech, and so they'd be given a day off to play Tech who would now be playing for the second day in a row. Whoever wins (Miami predicted) would then play Wake


The more I've thought about it, the more stupid I think it is. If both other teams have to go 2-0, then it should just be a bye for the higher seeded team. GT plays Miami on Day 1, then on Day 2 the winner plays Wake to see who advances. The End. The way they do it today doesn't fully favor the highest seeded team, and it creates a meaningless game, which makes less than no sense. There shouldn't ever be a game where its completely pointless to someone. Imagine playing a 7 game series and 1 team gets up 4 wins to 2 but they decide to play 1 more game anyway. Huh?

You make valid points. If you're the ACC, you must deal with trade offs on picking format. You focused on one pool in laying out your "better" schedule. Not sure you can repeat that sequence over 4 days/4pools...hurts my head to figure that out.

I looked back to previous 3 tournaments. There are 15 total games in both formats. My goal was to find "meaningless" games in that format. I concluded that each year (out of 15 games total) there were 2 meaninglessness games... of the 15. I'm pretty sure it's mathematically possible in that old for format to have more (or less) meaningless games. I found 2 for each of the 3 tournaments I looked at....but I could have missed something.

In this format (and chosen sequence), your are locked into 4 meaningless games (out of 15). No more...no less.

Here's where you weigh the trade offs:

New format: Saturday games will matter for sure.
Old format: Meaningless games came late in pool play. Always on Friday or Saturday (usually Sat).

New format: No play in games among bottom 4. Each teams guaranteed to play twice.
Old format: While the play in games among bottom 4 were not meaningless (by definition).... they were starting the tournament & an entire day of baseball less than interesting.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

You make valid points. If you're the ACC, you must deal with trade offs on picking format. You focused on one pool in laying out your "better" schedule. Not sure you can repeat that sequence over 4 days/4pools...hurts my head to figure that out.

I looked back to previous 3 tournaments. There are 15 total games in both formats. My goal was to find "meaningless" games in that format. I concluded that each year (out of 15 games total) there were 2 meaninglessness games... of the 15. I'm pretty sure it's mathematically possible in that old for format to have more (or less) meaningless games. I found 2 for each of the 3 tournaments I looked at....but I could have missed something.

In this format (and chosen sequence), your are locked into 4 meaningless games (out of 15). No more...no less.

Here's where you weigh the trade offs:

New format: Saturday games will matter for sure.
Old format: Meaningless games came late in pool play. Always on Friday or Saturday (usually Sat).

New format: No play in games among bottom 4. Each teams guaranteed to play twice.
Old format: While the play in games among bottom 4 were not meaningless (by definition).... they were starting the tournament & an entire day of baseball less than interesting.

One option is to cancel games which don't matter like ours tomorrow and move up another game. Simply make it a single elimination except for the top seed.

Tomorrow night makes absolutely no difference to Wake. Whether we win of lose, they have to beat Miami.

Instead the ACC has a prime time game that 50 people will watch tomorrow night. I may be one of the 50 watching, at least as long as Curry is pitching. Move up another game from the following day, giving at least a day's notice to the changed schedule.

Update: What I'm really saying is that the 2 and 3 seeds in a bracket should have a play in game. The winner plays the 1 seed. That in essence is what we have except now we have Zombie baseball tomorrow at 7 PM.

 

[FredJacket]

One option is to cancel games which don't matter like ours tomorrow and move up another game. Simply make it a single elimination except for the top seed.

Tomorrow night makes absolutely no difference to Wake. Whether we win of lose, they have to beat Miami.

Instead the ACC has a prime time game that 50 people will watch tomorrow night. I may be one of the 50 watching, at least as long as Curry is pitching. Move up another game from the following day, giving at least a day's notice to the changed schedule.

Update: What I'm really saying is that the 2 and 3 seeds in a bracket should have a play in game. The winner plays the 1 seed. That in essence is what we have except now we have Zombie baseball tomorrow at 7 PM.

Rain in forecast in Louisville tomorrow. This may be the way it goes.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

One option is to cancel games which don't matter like ours tomorrow and move up another game. Simply make it a single elimination except for the top seed.

Tomorrow night makes absolutely no difference to Wake. Whether we win of lose, they have to beat Miami.

Instead the ACC has a prime time game that 50 people will watch tomorrow night. I may be one of the 50 watching, at least as long as Curry is pitching. Move up another game from the following day, giving at least a day's notice to the changed schedule.

Update: What I'm really saying is that the 2 and 3 seeds in a bracket should have a play in game. The winner plays the 1 seed. That in essence is what we have except now we have Zombie baseball tomorrow at 7 PM.

Exactly.