2019 ACC Baseball Tourney

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FredJacket said:
Yep. I think I'm partial to FSU this year. Mike Martin's last game(?)... we have our [not so] secret weapon in Coach Ramsey who coached their last year. Plus... don't want a ballpark full of opposing team's fans (the NCST scenario)

But... I am clearly getting way ahead of myself.

Also... trivial tidbit. We've covered the big advantage of being the top seed in your pool. Despite that...over the 2 years/tournaments where this format was used, the pools' highest seeds have advanced to semis only 2 times. It was the #2 both times. #1,#3,#4 seeds have not won their respective pools either year ('17 or '18) & #2 has never been beaten in pool play.
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Yup, it’s a crazy game. Anybody can win a 1 game series.
 

MWBATL

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FredJacket said:
Also... trivial tidbit. We've covered the big advantage of being the top seed in your pool. Despite that...over the 2 years/tournaments where this format was used, the pools' highest seeds have advanced to semis only 2 times. It was the #2 both times. #1,#3,#4 seeds have not won their respective pools either year ('17 or '18) & #2 has never been beaten in pool play.
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Hmmm, good omen...or did you just jinx us? LOL
 
Southpawmac

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If ND can pull through and UVA wins tomorrow, all pools would be determined by the end of the third day. Friday would be a day of useless games.
 
FredJacket

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Southpawmac said:
If ND can pull through and UVA wins tomorrow, all pools would be determined by the end of the third day. Friday would be a day of useless games.
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There are 12 games in pool play for this format. It will always produces 4 (& exactly 4) pool games that have no bearing on who advances to the semi-finals on Sat. That means it will have exactly 8 games that do have bearing. If all 3 Friday happen to in the former category that would be a statistical anomaly; but would mean 8 (of 9) games in the 1st 3 days of the tournament do factor into who advances.

I intentionally avoid the words "meaningless" or "useless" ...but I get why others use them. My reason is those games will matter to teams like FSU & Clemson (who are already part of such games)....they could factor significantly into their regional slots... & in some cases for actually getting a bid at all.

Bringing it to Ga Tech. Let's say DUKE wins tonight. Is Tech's game v ND tomorrow meaningless? I say no... we need all the W's we can get. This applies to at least 10 teams in this tournament.
 

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FredJacket said:
There are 12 games in pool play for this format. It will always produces 4 (& exactly 4) pool games that have no bearing on who advances to the semi-finals on Sat. That means it will have exactly 8 games that do have bearing. If all 3 Friday happen to in the former category that would be a statistical anomaly; but would mean 8 (of 9) games in the 1st 3 days of the tournament do factor into who advances.

I intentionally avoid the words "meaningless" or "useless" ...but I get why others use them. My reason is those games will matter to teams like FSU & Clemson (who are already part of such games)....they could factor significantly into their regional slots... & in some cases for actually getting a bid at all.

Bringing it to Ga Tech. Let's say DUKE wins tonight. Is Tech's game v ND tomorrow meaningless? I say no... we need all the W's we can get. This applies to at least 10 teams in this tournament.
Click to expand...

But that’s part of why I think this pool format is stupid. If Duke wins, WE SHOULDNT EVEN PLAY TOMORROW. ND would already be eliminated. We should then get a Bye and play Duke to see who advances.
 
Southpawmac

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FredJacket said:
There are 12 games in pool play for this format. It will always produces 4 (& exactly 4) pool games that have no bearing on who advances to the semi-finals on Sat. That means it will have exactly 8 games that do have bearing. If all 3 Friday happen to in the former category that would be a statistical anomaly; but would mean 8 (of 9) games in the 1st 3 days of the tournament do factor into who advances.

I intentionally avoid the words "meaningless" or "useless" ...but I get why others use them. My reason is those games will matter to teams like FSU & Clemson (who are already part of such games)....they could factor significantly into their regional slots... & in some cases for actually getting a bid at all.

Bringing it to Ga Tech. Let's say DUKE wins tonight. Is Tech's game v ND tomorrow meaningless? I say no... we need all the W's we can get. This applies to at least 10 teams in this tournament.
Click to expand...

Yeah I use useless in the sense of the ACC tournament. I get why they have the extra games because it gives teams a chance to add a few wins to make the regionals, but it really only benefits the bottom and middle teams. If Duke wins, Tech gains nothing by beating ND. It’s a Q4 team that we are expected to beat, but losing likely cost us a national seed unless we make the championship game. Personally I think the format should be the top four seeds get byes, and just play the winner of the first game.
 
FredJacket

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bwelbo said:
But that’s part of why I think this pool format is stupid. If Duke wins, WE SHOULDNT EVEN PLAY TOMORROW. ND would already be eliminated. We should then get a Bye and play Duke to see who advances.
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Southpawmac said:
Yeah I use useless in the sense of the ACC tournament. I get why they have the extra games because it gives teams a chance to add a few wins to make the regionals, but it really only benefits the bottom and middle teams. If Duke wins, Tech gains nothing by beating ND. It’s a Q4 team that we are expected to beat, but losing likely cost us a national seed unless we make the championship game. Personally I think the format should be the top four seeds get byes, and just play the winner of the first game.
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I am not a big fan of the format myself. But if you are the ACC, you want to put on a tournament that balances several competing priorities... in no particular order:
1) No more than 4 games played by a team over the 6 days.
2) Leave out no NCAA bid "potential" teams. That usually means 10+ teams.
3) Give teams more than a single game
to help resume.
4) Attract fans... this is why format produces Sat semi-finals (previous format had pool play thru Sat & no Semifinals round).

You guys are right... the format has a lot left to be desired. @Southpawmac probably points out the most egregious. Top seeds (like Tech) end up in a no-win game that can only hurt them wrt committee/ RPI.

The SEC has a 12 team tournament. I think I like their format better... but it fails short in some ways too. Namely IIRC... a team can be required to play 6 games to win it. That's too many in my opinion.
 

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So if Duke wins, we should literally not play anybody tomorrow. It should be called an exhibition and not count towards RPI or anything. I mean who the hell do you play? Normal people and then pull them after 4 innings? So if we win, great...but if we lose we can argue we pulled everyone early because the game didn’t matter? The whole thing is ridiculously pointless.
 
gtrower

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ND has climbed back into the game down 5-7 B6. ND is on their 3rd pitcher and has given up 6 hits and 10 walks (lots of pitches).
 
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