Yellow Jackets 2020 Class

[LibertyTurns]

Are we the only fan base that tries to kill our own hype? Goodness, it is exhausting.

We’re also one of the few if any fanbases that likes to kill our own results. In 4 decades I’ve seen nothing to think that will change. It just depends what angle you’re playing. We are supposed to be an analytical bunch after all, the ones that cut thru the crap and see the world for what it is. Otherwise we’d have no soul & would be rooting for the devil wouldn’t we?

 

[Milwaukee]

We’re also one of the few if any fanbases that likes to kill our own results. In 4 decades I’ve seen nothing to think that will change. It just depends what angle you’re playing. We are supposed to be an analytical bunch after all, the ones that cut thru the crap and see the world for what it is. Otherwise we’d have no soul & would be rooting for the devil wouldn’t we?

God I bet your boss hates you. "We've always been this way boss, I mean, when in the world has a company risen from the ashes to become a major player under our circumstances when our competition has an easier path?"

Boss: "Umm...only all the time with the right people that are smart and intuitive, ya know, those traits that most engineers have."

Or you may be your own boss, but you get the point. The point is smart people change the world and change their status for the better, they don't say "this is what we've always been" and consider themselves scientists for stating the obvious like it's some sort of badge of honor.

That's my rant for the day Not directed towards you @LibertyTurns just used your post as an example.

We can be better, I don't give a damn what the past 30 years have been. We can be better with the right staff and admin. Period.

 

[slugboy]

We’re also one of the few if any fanbases that likes to kill our own results. In 4 decades I’ve seen nothing to think that will change. It just depends what angle you’re playing. We are supposed to be an analytical bunch after all, the ones that cut thru the crap and see the world for what it is. Otherwise we’d have no soul & would be rooting for the devil wouldn’t we?

Analytical and pessimistic are different things. There’s enough data and qualitative information to see we’re doing better at recruiting. There’s a lot left to do, but it’s a visible change.

There are other aspects to coaching—keeping players eligible and healthy, S&C, tactics, game prep, etc. Recruiting looks healthy, though


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[TheSilasSonRising]

Does anybody know what kind of net we are casting? Are we focusing too much on the 404? I've always thought in order to find the elite athletic prospect with elite academic chops as well, we needed to cast a larger more national net. Focusing efforts in the NE private schools is a good place to start, but there are highly regarded academic programs with great players all over the country, some in metro Atlanta. We were promised elite players, not just an early fill up of the class. Not to take away from our commits potential to be elite, but that's a different story than elite recruits outright.

Twice in my lifetime as a GT fan I have seen words, if not promises, along the lines saying we would recruit nationally and virtually have an unlimited budget to do so.


Twice in that time I have seen these words, promises, goals or whatever ring hollow.

If it doesn't start / end in the 404, it at least does in Ga. Then the South. Any private school northeastern types in the future best be S/As we take away from factory teams.

This program is too important, and to beneficial to the entire Institute to do otherwise.

The days of conceding are over.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

What did you do with Whiskey??

Good or bad I call it like I see it

 

[DieselTeeth]

God I bet your boss hates you. "We've always been this way boss, I mean, when in the world has a company risen from the ashes to become a major player under our circumstances when our competition has an easier path?"

Boss: "Umm...only all the time with the right people that are smart and intuitive, ya know, those traits that most engineers have."

Or you may be your own boss, but you get the point. The point is smart people change the world and change their status for the better, they don't say "this is what we've always been" and consider themselves scientists for stating the obvious like it's some sort of badge of honor.

That's my rant for the day Not directed towards you @LibertyTurns just used your post as an example.

We can be better, I don't give a damn what the past 30 years have been. We can be better with the right staff and admin. Period.

Clearly you are not a True Tech Fan.
Free at last free at last

 

[Milwaukee]

 

[LibertyTurns]

God I bet your boss hates you. "We've always been this way boss, I mean, when in the world has a company risen from the ashes to become a major player under our circumstances when our competition has an easier path?"

Boss: "Umm...only all the time with the right people that are smart and intuitive, ya know, those traits that most engineers have."

Or you may be your own boss, but you get the point. The point is smart people change the world and change their status for the better, they don't say "this is what we've always been" and consider themselves scientists for stating the obvious like it's some sort of badge of honor.

That's my rant for the day Not directed towards you @LibertyTurns just used your post as an example.

We can be better, I don't give a damn what the past 30 years have been. We can be better with the right staff and admin. Period.

Actually I’m a turnaround expert. No gloss, just focus on steady enduring improvements & results. If anyone has read any of my posts on how I think/thought we should turn the program around, you’d know that. CGC has demonstrated aptitude and desire in many of those areas already. It makes me hopeful, the grossly exaggerated hype doesn’t float my boat. Frankly, we typically poke fun of the idiots up the road for their annual unrealistic National Championship hopes and other ridiculous boasts because that’s what they are. What should make us different is developing & implementing beneficial changes in every core program area we can, and yes some element of hype needs to be present but trying to make a bunch of GT people like some other fanbases is going to be quite a hill to climb.

@slugboy The results thus far, very premature & nothing I’d draw any conclusions from, are extremely mixed. We’re rated highly because we have a higher number of recruits which actually is an awful way of rating teams. I’m not so sure any rater can effectively rate one guy .8388 and another .8422, but I hazard a guess you can tell a 4* from a 3* a bit more effectively. A team that has six 4* and six 3* should be rated higher than a team that has one 4* and fourteen 3* for example. It really is kind of silly to think otherwise because it’s just illogical. You can hype it all you want, we are not getting commits from highly rated recruits & until we do we will not have Top 25 recruiting classes. CGC’s approach may pay off- it is not yet. Time will tell. What other option do we have but to trust his way will work out? I’m not joining the ranks of those rooting against GT so I can be right because that’s not who I am. It must have sucked the last 10 years for some. I really don’t know how they rationalized their support or lack thereof.

This is likely my last post of this sort because I’m not going to get anyone’s panties in a wad arguing over semantics. I’m not picking a side between the last coaching staff & this one. They’re both GT football teams, just different years. People have their opinion and I have mine. Sorry if you don’t like a less hypey approach.

 

[Milwaukee]

Actually I’m a turnaround expert. No gloss, just focus on steady enduring improvements & results. If anyone has read any of my posts on how I think/thought we should turn the program around, you’d know that. CGC has demonstrated aptitude and desire in many of those areas already. It makes me hopeful, the grossly exaggerated hype doesn’t float my boat. Frankly, we typically poke fun of the idiots up the road for their annual unrealistic National Championship hopes and other ridiculous boasts because that’s what they are. What should make us different is developing & implementing beneficial changes in every core program area we can, and yes some element of hype needs to be present but trying to make a bunch of GT people like some other fanbases is going to be quite a hill to climb.

@slugboy The results thus far, very premature & nothing I’d draw any conclusions from, are extremely mixed. We’re rated highly because we have a higher number of recruits which actually is an awful way of rating teams. I’m not so sure any rater can effectively rate one guy .8388 and another .8422, but I hazard a guess you can tell a 4* from a 3* a bit more effectively. A team that has six 4* and six 3* should be rated higher than a team that has one 4* and fourteen 3* for example. It really is kind of silly to think otherwise because it’s just illogical. You can hype it all you want, we are not getting commits from highly rated recruits & until we do we will not have Top 25 recruiting classes. CGC’s approach may pay off- it is not yet. Time will tell. What other option do we have but to trust his way will work out? I’m not joining the ranks of those rooting against GT so I can be right because that’s not who I am. It must have sucked the last 10 years for some. I really don’t know how they rationalized their support or lack thereof.

This is likely my last post of this sort because I’m not going to get anyone’s panties in a wad arguing over semantics. I’m not picking a side between the last coaching staff & this one. They’re both GT football teams, just different years. People have their opinion and I have mine. Sorry if you don’t like a less hypey approach.

Thanks for the response, and in no way are you pissing people off on either side. I think your history speaks for itself and we respect your opinion. But the point remains that yes, we make fun of UGA for having "grand expectations" but we are still in control of our own destiny. We can improve our program if we're smart about it. If we're not, we'll continue to see the same average result.

 

[91Wreck]

I can see and understand the strategy being used by the staff. Create a lot of hype by getting the early high rating by having high numbers even if they’re just three stars. But there’s a pitfall waiting ahead. Our rating is going to slowly decline over time. Week after week it’s going to get worse and worse and worse as other programs start to fill up. What does that do to the hype train?

Gee cheese, it sure sounds as though you are chomping at the bit for the hype train to come off the rails. Don't worry. I would imagine there will be many pitfalls ahead for the new staff that will give you ample opportunity to say "I told you so."

Seriously, this is what CGC was hired to do. Market GT football and get our brand out there. And even if we only get commits from four - 4 star players and a bunch of higher rated 3 stars, we will probably finish with our best class in the last 13 years. And that will be just fine to keep the hype train going for most GT fans and future commits.

It is a straw man fallacy that you and others have created that the anti CPJ guys believed that with a new coach and offense 4 and 5 star players would come. We don't. Most of us believed that with the right coach with the right marketing strategy we could have consistent top 30 classes. And that is certainly looking doable.

And we all understand what a fine job CPJ did punching above his weight. We also understand that that his recruiting classes were ranked below what they should have been because he was recruiting unique players for a unique offense. And finally, we understand that if CGC and his staff can't coach, all the top 30 classes in the world won't mean a thing.

But how about you let just us dream of bigger and better things for the next few months before Clemson brings us all back to reality.

 

[LargeFO]

Gee cheese, it sure sounds as though you are chomping at the bit for the hype train to come off the rails. Don't worry. I would imagine there will be many pitfalls ahead for the new staff that will give you ample opportunity to say "I told you so."

Seriously, this is what CGC was hired to do. Market GT football and get our brand out there. And even if we only get commits from four - 4 star players and a bunch of higher rated 3 stars, we will probably finish with our best class in the last 13 years. And that will be just fine to keep the hype train going for most GT fans and future commits.

It is a straw man fallacy that you and others have created that the anti CPJ guys believed that with a new coach and offense 4 and 5 star players would come. We don't. Most of us believed that with the right coach with the right marketing strategy we could have consistent top 30 classes. And that is certainly looking doable.

And we all understand what a fine job CPJ did punching above his weight. We also understand that that his recruiting classes were ranked below what they should have been because he was recruiting unique players for a unique offense. And finally, we understand that if CGC and his staff can't coach, all the top 30 classes in the world won't mean a thing.

But how about you let just us dream of bigger and better things for the next few months before Clemson brings us all back to reality.

The 3rd paragraph is so true it's scary. I see the same crap nonstop on the GT Facebook groups as well. Same 5 people with their worn out agendas.

 

[85Escape]

Analytical and pessimistic are different things. There’s enough data and qualitative information to see we’re doing better at recruiting. There’s a lot left to do, but it’s a visible change.

That's true and I agree Slugboy. The evidence I'm seeing leads me to the same belief. But I use the word 'belief' with intention....

Seriously, I tend to want to roll my eyes anytime someone says "I just look at the facts and call like it is." What they really mean is "I look at some of the facts and call it like I see it." Most intelligent people can take a single set of facts and come to several different conclusions that are supported. The conclusions they reach are often based on their world-view and expectations as to what the 'data will tell them'. Only by disproving the negative assertion can we even begin to claim to be factual. The truth is most people on this forum that resort to 'facts' simply have a preconceived belief and have collected data that supports it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that other than misleading themselves that they are all 'scientific and logical'. Pu-lease.

 

[dhbartlett12]

Does anyone really think that a team with one 4* and eleven 3* deserves to be ranked over a team with one 5*, six 4* and zero 3* or below? I hate the mutt as much as anyone but that’s a stretch. If anyone wants to bet on GT ends up being ranked higher than the mutt come signing day let me know where I can come get your money.

Our recruiting class would destroy their recruiting class if they were to play today. 7 men does not a football team make.

 

[ATL1]

People laughed at Dabo and called him a clown. Well......

The more hype the merrier. Positive energy.

 

[Milwaukee]

Gee cheese, it sure sounds as though you are chomping at the bit for the hype train to come off the rails. Don't worry. I would imagine there will be many pitfalls ahead for the new staff that will give you ample opportunity to say "I told you so."

Seriously, this is what CGC was hired to do. Market GT football and get our brand out there. And even if we only get commits from four - 4 star players and a bunch of higher rated 3 stars, we will probably finish with our best class in the last 13 years. And that will be just fine to keep the hype train going for most GT fans and future commits.

It is a straw man fallacy that you and others have created that the anti CPJ guys believed that with a new coach and offense 4 and 5 star players would come. We don't. Most of us believed that with the right coach with the right marketing strategy we could have consistent top 30 classes. And that is certainly looking doable.

And we all understand what a fine job CPJ did punching above his weight. We also understand that that his recruiting classes were ranked below what they should have been because he was recruiting unique players for a unique offense. And finally, we understand that if CGC and his staff can't coach, all the top 30 classes in the world won't mean a thing.

But how about you let just us dream of bigger and better things for the next few months before Clemson brings us all back to reality.

 

[GTrob21]

I share the optimism of the new staff. I love the culture that is not at Georgia Tech and if you project the average rating of the players we have over a 25 recruit class, we would land somewhere in the 25-35 range.

That is a huge improvement over the previous classes.

Is GT going to end up top 10 this year.. probably not... but if we keep the momentum going by having a good year, and building upon it. There is no reason why Tech couldn't become a major player in college football.

The only missing aspect I can see are the fans. Will the fans create an imposing atmosphere, like you have at many SEC schools, and currently is at Clemson.

 

[GoldZ]

Thanks for that '91.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Minor quibble here. I have been "optimistic and hype" every single spring for my entire life. It's my nature as a fan.

I disagree with the "lack of buzz" for a decade. How can you claim there was no "buzz" around the program in 2008, 2009, and going into 2010? How can you claim there was no "buzz" around the program in 2014, going into 2015, and the back half of 2016? Or going into 2017 at the CFA kickoff?

Now, it may not have been the "buzz" you wanted (if you were anti-CPJ), and often that buzz wasn't sustained, but if wins over UGAg, 9, 11, 11, and 9 win seasons and ACC title appearances don't equate to "buzz", then I need to readjust my perspective.

I've said before that I love the new staff. I love the hype, and energy, and positivity. So far, recruiting has been similar, if more hyped up and visible. At the end of the day, for me, it's about results on the field and running a clean program. I don't yet equate the "buzz" and "hype" with success. It may end up that way, and I hope it does. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and we may end up having two coaches back to back who successfully skinned cats in two very different ways.

Fair point that there has been buzz in the past decade. The first two years, absolutely. Going into 2015, yes. Some folks were thinking dark horse for the playoff and I think we were ranked about 15th in the preseason, even though CPJ was basically trying to tell us we weren't any good all spring and fall. 2016 was a nice season, nice finish, but I don't recall much hype there.

But to say the recruiting so far is similar is just absurd. Just because we took a few 5.5's? I don't want to go through all the numbers again. The evidence is there if you care to look beyond a handful of recruits. We literally had 3 recruits this time last year, and none were ranked in state or nationally. We have 12 this year, including a top 100 nationally and 3 top 50 in-state recruits (who are fairly likely to end up with 4 stars if history is any indication) and one more coming in at # 57. It's night and day folks, and it's okay to acknowledge that. It doesn't mean you have to appreciate CPJ any less. If you want to say, "Hey, it only counts on signing day. We'll see if we can keep it up", that is absolutely valid. To say that there hasn't been a significant bump so far is just not credible at all.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

But to say the recruiting so far is similar is just absurd.

It's not absurd. Our average star rating right now is a hair above 3. CPJ was a hair below. I guess if you count early numbers, I guess you have a point, but what does that really matter? Guys predicting bumps is just speculation at this point.

Imo, Collins and staff are better recruiters in a general sense. CPJ and staff, for offense anyway, was recruiting to a specific need that was different than most of the rest. He could make hay with guys other teams couldn't because they'd be asked to do different things or similar things in different ways. His offense wasn't the great equalizer as many of his fans like to think, but it wasn't insignificant either.

Also, CPJ had a much different recruiting strategy. He wasn't concerned about optics and early numbers. He was concerned about kids not flipping so he told them "Do not commit unless you are committed and we'll do the same." That is the primary reason why his numbers were low in the early going. My guess is we'll see a higher rate of attrition for CGC's commits than we saw with CPJ's. I predict some of that will be by design which I'm not cool with at all.

 

[smokey_wasp]

It's not absurd. Our average star rating right now is a hair above 3. CPJ was a hair below. I guess if you count early numbers, I guess you have a point, but what does that really matter? Guys predicting bumps is just speculation at this point.

Imo, Collins and staff are better recruiters in a general sense. CPJ and staff, for offense anyway, was recruiting to a specific need that was different than most of the rest. He could make hay with guys other teams couldn't because they'd be asked to do different things or similar things in different ways. His offense wasn't the great equalizer as many of his fans like to think, but it wasn't insignificant either.

Also, CPJ had a much different recruiting strategy. He wasn't concerned about optics and early numbers. He was concerned about kids not flipping so he told them "Do not commit unless you are committed and we'll do the same." That is the primary reason why his numbers were low in the early going. My guess is we'll see a higher rate of attrition for CGC's commits than we saw with CPJ's. I predict some of that will be by design which I'm not cool with at all.

Early numbers matter a lot, and are the only thing worth comparing at this point, IMO. But you could also consider that CGC secured 3 of our 5 highest rated recruits last year with barely any time on the job and no staff for the first few weeks. At the end of the day, I don't think you really believe that we aren't going to see a bump in recruiting. You kind of acknowledge that. It's just that you have a preference for the way CPJ did things, and you're not sure that a bump in recruiting is going to translate to wins. That's a personal preference and pure speculation thing, so I really don't have a counter argument to that. It's an agree to disagree moment.