When the TO3 died

Jim Prather

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,021
I disagree. Having a group of intelligent, disciplined, team-first, me-2nd players can be an advantage, at least over almost every single FCS school. The military academy recruits aren't exactly bad athletes. Plus, they all really, really, really want to be at West Point, Annapolis, or Colorado Springs.
Since I think you are being obstructionist on purpose, let me be more precise, the military academies should never ever win an FBS football game in this day and age - EVER. Furthermore, FCS games should be competitive but the academies should lose a large percentage of those as well. They are slower and smaller than every single team they play against.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
I don't think the TO died but i think teams that we played against every year got smarter about it.
Alot of players from other schools have talked about how they would spend time in spring and/or fall sessions preparing for it.

i think it helped alot against teams that did not play against it every year and didn't have alot of time to prepare for it.
Johnson was an incredible 15-3 against ACC Atlantic opponents other than Clemson (that includes the ACC Championship Game loss to FSU).

But Johnson's program was just 40-44 overall against teams he played every season, and even if you want to take out Clemson and UGA he was 32-29. Not exactly killing it.
Over the last 5 yrs his program was 5th in the ACC Coastal in division wins ahead of only UVA and Duke. If you go back 6 yrs to when Pitt joined he is tied for 3rd with both Pitt and UNC and behind Miami and VT. Just once after 2009 did his program go better than .500 against teams they played every season (2014) and 5 times during that stretch they finished under .500.

I think alot of people (including me) bought into the idea that Johnson's offense could be a pretty big equalizer. There may have been some truth to that over the first few years, but I don't think that claim holds up well over the course of his whole tenure.

I cheered for his program to win games when he was here, but i think it was likely a time for a change. Program familiarity, rule changes, becoming less dynamic with playcalling, sagging attendance all lead to the idea that we likely needed to make a change. I appreciate Coach Johnson alot for having the change occur in a manner that gives us the best chance for success down the road.

You are convoluting the program with the offensive scheme. I know many think they go hand in hand but defenses aren’t bad at other places that run the 3-O.

Just focusing on the O. Their were times I thought even good defenses had small chance of slowing us. We had elite offenses some years. Just not in 15,17 or 18. And that bad after taste will likely set the tone for legacy.
 

BonafideJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
190
UCF has grown...Clemson under our forner AD and Dabo have grown...Duke under Cut has even grown...

I am not talking about Bama and Ohio State and ND....No more excuses!! Very few 1-AA teams like MTSU upset FBS programs.... Probably should.make a list of coaches and programs who have lost to 1-AA and see if you like the company that CPJ shares.

Sorry to interrupt this rant, but MTSU has been a I-A (FBS) team for almost two decades. Try to keep up. CPJ never lost to a I-AA (FCS) team. GT hasn't lost to one in 35 years (Furman in 1983). The company GT shares in this regard includes Michigan, Penn St., Stanford, Miami, Oregon, Florida, and Iowa. All have lost a game to a I-AA (FCS) team.
 
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techfan4

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
49
Personally I think losing Dedrick Mills, Marcus Marshall, then Benson hurt us more with TaQuon than we think. We lost our 3 best running threats in 2 years. Dedrick was a game changer, and the offense would have centered around him had he been here. I don’t think we had the weapons to run the full offense, but I do think Tobias was able to run a more QB-focused offense and that’s why he should have been made the starter.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,953
Oklahoma has no defense, so they could have prepared all summer for Army, and the results would have probably been the same. As much as I would prefer otherwise, Bama is going to kill the Sooners.

The ol for army was bad to the bone.
But since this thread is about
Exactly. The last two years, teams dared us to throw and we never made them pay consistently. Sound strategy really. Annoying as hell for someone who is a fan of the 3O and CPJ.
Totally agree great offense & if we had better player/position coaching we would have been really special no matter what the other team did. There is much more game planning against gt on file. Inside those plans are postion coaching points on technique. Watching the nt for miami get burned because of lack of discipline and then watching the uva nt (strong dt) play a great game, told me we have to pass no matter how brilliant the coach us. Those 2 games are my favorite for Coach
The uva dt would concentrate on just getting a piece of both the bb or qb and let the other players finish off the play. .

Imo, the TO at gt died when we did not get a great receiver recruit the year after orange bowl year. After 15 it was more smoke and mirrors than anything else. With the arrival of dedrick mills coach got new swag.

As ncaa tightened blocking rules that hurt gt scheme. Another adjustment that coach had to work on while we were light in experience at qb. Imo, Coach knows in future NCAA will probably make chop blocking like targeting w intent. Also cut blocking may move to 1 yd instead of 5.

However if Gt had the players , coach would still be coaching.

As a note of Integrity at gt.
We should be very proud that Coach and gt were strictly against chop and cut blocking in any manner that could hurt a player. Any one that says we play dirty is ignorant or a liar. Once this year Hansen (in an early start ) unnessarily went into DT s knes on a play to the other side. He could have easily hit guy in the hip area and accomplished the block. The center said something to him and then he was replaced for a few plays. He didnt go low into knees again. Gt is quality . Don't let anyone say we block like this! Prepare to see this picture in the discussion of the draft stock of this former #1 (projected] Ed Oliver.
 

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Technut1990

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
960
The fact that you say the 3O is dead and then cite players as being responsible for the good days is confusing at best.

I think the player personnel is and was the issue. TM is a baller who was playing out of position. The 3O has to have a 3O QB to work. That QB looks a lot like Nesbit or Tracey Ham. An option QB has to trust his eyes and pitch the ball when the pitch is there.

TM is a player who takes the bull by the horns, he saw lanes and felt he could hold the ball and hit the lane, other times his physical gifts made him think to juke first when a true 3O QBs job is to pull the defensive player inside, exposing the pitch lane.

I’m not slamming TM, he was an athlete called on to play out of position, his natural talents didn’t lend to him getting rid of the ball. It caused hesitation in decision making and impediments to fluidity in the play.

I’m good with any offense TECH runs but guess what, I’d say the same thing about Nesbit running a spread, it’s just the wrong player for that particular style.

I am firmly convinced that the 3O with UGAs or BAMAs players would never be stopped and with those two defenses nobody would ever look at them and say the 3O is dead.

Now this is where CPJ failed himself, had he actually emphasized defense his offense wouldn’t be looked at as it was. At worse the games in which it was stopped would have been 10-3 type games and the entire story on CPJs career would have been changed, as would TECHs.
 

GaTech4ever

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,472
One guy who we never talk about who I think would have taken over after JT and made a huge difference was Ty Griffin. He was on the same level athletically as JT and looked great in his one spring game as a QB. Can’t blame him for wanting to play at Oregon with his brother, but another guy we can chalk up to “what could have been.”
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,898
All good points......I think the rule changes regarding chop blocks and cut blocks has also had an effect on the 3O
And on our OL recruiting. If you look at who we were after for the last two years, increased size and height were obviously a priority. This is one reason why the concern about our OL is, imho, misplaced. Everybody coming up is in the 6'3" - 6'5" range and weighs at least 290. Next year there won't be any early morning runs for OLs over 295 like we did recently. They'll be porking up in peace. Let's just hope that we aren't too porked up in the process.
 

GTFLETCH

Banned
Messages
2,639
Can’t wait for your list of bowl wins and other key wins. ;)
My list of bowl wins & key wins through the CPJ Era!!! Yes there is more than 1 ACC Title, 3 COFHs, go to One Orange Bowl win and 3 wins over FSU!

2008
#16 FSU
#23 Miami
#13 Georgia

2009
#22 North Carolina
#4 VPI
ACCCG #25 Clemson

2010
None

2011
#6 Clemson

2012
Sun Bowl vs unranked USC

2013
None

2014
#18 Clemson
#8 Georgia
OB vs #8 Miss State

2015

#9 FSU

2016
#18 VPI
Taxslayer Bowl vs unranked Kentucky

2017
#17 VPI

2018
NONE (some could say a win against unranked VPI and Miami are good, but those teams are unranked for a reason IMHO)

* Clearly we had three great seasons under CPJ {2008-2009-2014)
* We had two solid season in 2011 (8 wins) & 2016 (9 wins)
* We had a bunch of mediocre seasons 2010-2012-2013-2017-2018 (no more than 7 wins)
* We had one Bill Lewis Season 2015 (1-7 in ACC Play)

IIWII
 
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Jacket in Dairyland

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,053
My list of bowl wins & key wins through the CPJ Era!!! Yes there is more than 1 ACC Title, 3 COFHs, go to One Orange Bowl win and 3 wins over FSU!

2008
#16 FSU
#23 Miami
#13 Georgia

2009
#22 North Carolina
#4 VPI
ACCCG #25 Clemson

2010
None

2011
#6 Clemson

2012
Sun Bowl vs unranked USC

2013
None

2014
#18 Clemson
#8 Georgia
OB vs #8 Miss State

2015

#9 FSU

2016
#18 VPI
Taxslayer Bowl vs unranked Kentucky

2017
#17 VPI

2018
NONE (some could say a win against unranked VPI and Miami are good, but those teams are unranked for a reason IMHO)
Just glancing casually at your list, it appears the TO started to die in 2010( after all of Gailey's players graduated) , was resuscitated in 2014, and has been on life support , with a terminal diagnosis since.
 

RickStromFan

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
899
We were top 20 in offensive efficiency this year. If it died, then it died swinging.

problem is though, we didn't look very efficient against the good teams on our schedule. Clemson, mutts, Duke, Pitt, UVA, and Minn really stuffed our offense for most of those games. Even Miami did a good job against us but committed some key TOs that gave us short fields that we took advantage of.

Blowing out VPI and Louisville were nice though neither of these teams were particularly good.
 

RickStromFan

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
899
My list of bowl wins & key wins through the CPJ Era!!! Yes there is more than 1 ACC Title, 3 COFHs, go to One Orange Bowl win and 3 wins over FSU!

2008
#16 FSU
#23 Miami
#13 Georgia

2009
#22 North Carolina
#4 VPI
ACCCG #25 Clemson

2010
None

2011
#6 Clemson

2012
Sun Bowl vs unranked USC

2013
None

2014
#18 Clemson
#8 Georgia
OB vs #8 Miss State

2015

#9 FSU

2016
#18 VPI
Taxslayer Bowl vs unranked Kentucky

2017
#17 VPI

2018
NONE (some could say a win against unranked VPI and Miami are good, but those teams are unranked for a reason IMHO)

* Clearly we had three great seasons under CPJ {2008-2009-2014)
* We had two solid season in 2011 (8 wins) & 2016 (9 wins)
* We had a bunch of mediocre seasons 2010-2012-2013-2017-2018 (no more than 7 wins)
* We had one Bill Lewis Season 2015 (1-7 in ACC Play)

IIWII

I think that's a fair assessment.
 
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