When the TO3 died

[danny daniel]

I really like CPJ and love the TO3. Under Nesbitt, Washington, and J Thomas there was great play, excitement, and often good results. All the skill players were used: BBs, ABs, WRs, and QBs. Unfortunately the TO3 died in 2017 against Tennessee.

T Marshall played a spectacular game at QB and since then the play calling and O execution has all been focused for QB carries, with the exception of the few BB carries when Benson was active. It seems that CPJs genius became focused to create new and more clever ways for the QB to carry the ball and TQM responded by carrying it. We seemed to waste the talents of the ABs and to some extent the BBs and there never seemed to be any chance of a passing game.

I am really going to miss the TO3 from 2008-2016 but it never materialized in 2017-2018. Too bad the TO3 died two years ago and CPJ was not able to keep it going. Under the circumstances I look forward to the change but am not so optimistic that better recruiting can overcome our prior advantages with the "old" TO3.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Could have been different if Ratliffe didn't have his accident...or Lucas didn't get hurt...or Matthew Jordan stayed healthy and won the job...or Mills didn't get kicked out...or...

CPJ adjusted to what he had to work with and managed to squeeze some wins out of it, but it wasn't pretty, and it wasn't really even the 3O most times.. Definitely soured many fans on the scheme, IMO.

 

[YJMD]

I don't think the TO has died, but I do think that certain teams have found a way to prepare and play defensively that isn't a schematic advantage but makes it really difficult for us to execute reads and matchup athletically. That can be overcome to a large degree if people are well-spirited and mentally engaged, but that's the hardest part of sports. I am really going to miss the times the option steamrolled folks.

 

[ibeattetris]

Teams began playing us where they brought in an extra safety to attack near the LOS. That led to our AB being taken out of the 30. We were not able to execute on play action for a myriad of reasons and it allowed the teams to do this without punishment. Army opponents have the same film and know they could do the same, but army has not struggled the same that we have.

 

[Enuratique]

Teams began playing us where they brought in an extra safety to attack near the LOS. That led to our AB being taken out of the 30. We were not able to execute on play action for a myriad of reasons and it allowed the teams to do this without punishment. Army opponents have the same film and know they could do the same, but army has not struggled the same that we have.

Exactly. The last two years, teams dared us to throw and we never made them pay consistently. Sound strategy really. Annoying as hell for someone who is a fan of the 3O and CPJ.

 

[takethepoints]

T Marshall played a spectacular game at QB and since then the play calling and O execution has all been focused for QB carries, with the exception of the few BB carries when Benson was active.

Ah. The main problem we had with TO execution this year and last was that the starting BB that TaQuon had been working with off season was suddenly not there. So we had to conduct training drills during the season for players who, however talented, were not planned to see the field as starters until a year or two down the road. Losing Mills in 2017 meant the loses in the wet; he was impervious to weather conditions, the one area where he was visibly better then Benson. (I still think we should have beat Miami if Benson hadn't been hurt, however.) Losing Benson in 2018 was even worse. When he was hurt against USF, he was averaging 11 ypc. If he stays in, we win easy. The real difference there, however, was against Pitt and Duke. I think Benson would have been instrumental in winning those games; not having him out there messed up our execution badly. Also, with Benson on the field, we had two game breakers in the back field. With him out, concentrating on TaQuon and daring us to win the game with the Two-Headed Monster was a no brainer. Sometimes we did - Louisville - but the better Ds could spy TaQuon and cause us trouble.

Also, I reiterate that the real reason we were having trouble with the option plays to the edge was how the better Ds were playing us. It looks like we were running mostly QB keepers. But take a look - if you can stand it - at the bowl game. TaQuon was often at the edge with the pitch covered. The QB keeps the ball in that situation; pitching to a covered man is extremely risky. He usually made the right read in those instances. Obviously, we didn't think we could win the game with the dive and a BB/QB game so we went with the edge stuff and didn't have the luck we wanted. Too bad.

 

[iceeater1969]

Smokey all good points, but it points to lack of any depth. I support the tstan/ cgc and ( i pray ) Bud P team approach to greatly increasing emphasize on recruiting. Yes we want top players but those that don't excel can provide depth.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Smokey all good points, but it points to lack of any depth. I support the tstan/ cgc and ( i pray ) Bud P team approach to greatly increasing emphasize on recruiting. Yes we want top players but those that don't excel can provide depth.

Agree. Im on board with that plan.

 

[Animal02]

All good points......I think the rule changes regarding chop blocks and cut blocks has also had an effect on the 3O

 

[Animal02]

Smokey all good points, but it points to lack of any depth. I support the tstan/ cgc and ( i pray ) Bud P team approach to greatly increasing emphasize on recruiting. Yes we want top players but those that don't excel can provide depth.

Depth is always going to be an issue at Tech.....across most sports. Kids won't ride the pine for two years putting up with Tech academics like they will at other schools.

 

[Jacket4Life]

I have never been a fan of the triple option. Personally I think it's extremely boring, but I will agree it made us more competitive with lesser tallent.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I have never been a fan of the triple option. Personally I think it's extremely boring, but I will agree it made us more competitive with lesser tallent.

I hear ya. I find shotgun spread RPOs very boring and often maddening in short yardage situations.

But if that’s what Tech gets so be it. Even if I don’t like the style I’ll be excited if it generates scoring drives and big plays.

 

[WrongShadeOfGold]

Army opponents have the same film and know they could do the same, but army has not struggled the same that we have.

Because Army didn't play anyone. I'm sick of seeing people drool over Army's record. They lost to Duke and Oklahoma. They beat Liberty, Hawaii, Buffalo, San Jose State, Miami OH, Eastern Michigan, Air Force, Lafayette, Colgate, Navy, and Houston. If you dont think we go 11-2 with that schedule, then you're crazy.

 

[wvGT11]

I don't think the triple died per say, we just didn't have the skill players for it the past few seasons. The offense really hasn't looked the same since '14 and '16 and its partly due to our skill players at QB, AB, and BB, case in point the death march havent seen that much this year at all. I would also say that the teams we play against, while they all line up about the same against us seem to practice playing against the option more to prep for playing us.

 

[ibeattetris]

Because Army didn't play anyone. I'm sick of seeing people drool over Army's record. They lost to Duke and Oklahoma. They beat Liberty, Hawaii, Buffalo, San Jose State, Miami OH, Eastern Michigan, Air Force, Lafayette, Colgate, Navy, and Houston. If you dont think we go 11-2 with that schedule, then you're crazy.

If that’s the part of my post you want to critique that’s fine. It’s just your opinion against mine on that.

My point about teams adjusting to us by bringing in the backside safety and us not being able to exploit it is still a fact. It wasn’t the broken 30, but a lack of us being able to adjust due to personnel.

 

[GTFLETCH]

I have never been a fan of the triple option. Personally I think it's extremely boring, but I will agree it made us more competitive with lesser tallent.

I will say it made us more competitive in ACC play (while we went 1-7 in ACC play in 2015, we were always 4-4 or better the other 10 years) thus proves when teams did not have a chance to prepare for us GT was tough....(Although folks coud argue that GOL and CCG also went 4-4 or better in ACC play)

However the reason why CPJ did not get more media respect or fan respect is besides 2009 ACCCG & 2014 OB games all his teams eams all choked on the national stage (Except 2012 Sun Bowl and 2016 Gator Bowl)..

So it looks like he was able to make us competivie in a weak ACC FB Conf.... His scheme fits more military academies (as he chose not to pass lat Gt ike he did at Hawaii )or a G5 school, not a P5 program... As he could not recuit kid to play in the scheme and the list of kids who transferred is quit long...(Vad Lee, Jeff Greene, could name more)

Facts are Facts...

Ugly Bowl Losses on national stage w/ TO as scheme
Peach Bowl -LSU
OB - Iowa
Indy - Air Force
Sun Bowl - Utah
Music City Bowl - Ole Miss
Quick Lane Bowl - Minn

Other Key Losses :
Kansas 2010
MTSU 2012
BYU 2012
ACCG FSU 2012
BYU 2013
Duke 2014
ACCG FSU 2014
Duke 2015
entire 2015 season (except FSU Game)
Tenn 2017
Miami 2017
Duke 2017
UVA 2017
USF 2018
Pitt 2018
Duke 2018

 

[tsrich]

I think the rule changes over the last few years related to blocking have hurt PJ's version of the TO. It made it much harder to get home run plays on the outside. Without those plays, we have a much smaller margin of error trying to drive the length of the field.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Because Army didn't play anyone. I'm sick of seeing people drool over Army's record. They lost to Duke and Oklahoma. They beat Liberty, Hawaii, Buffalo, San Jose State, Miami OH, Eastern Michigan, Air Force, Lafayette, Colgate, Navy, and Houston. If you dont think we go 11-2 with that schedule, then you're crazy.

So you are saying we are as good as Army but no better.

Army did play OK. A playoff team. And nearly beat them. Better than what we have done vs playoff caliber teams this year.

It’s all the more impressive considering where Army was prior to Monken. Whether you were aware of that or not.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I will say it made us more competitive in ACC play (while we went 1-7 in ACC play in 2015, we were always 4-4 or better the other 10 years) thus proves when teams did not have a chance to prepare for us GT was tough....(Although folks coud argue that GOL and CCG also went 4-4 or better in ACC play)

However the reason why CPJ did not get more media respect or fan respect is besides 2009 ACCCG & 2014 OB games all his teams eams all choked on the national stage (Except 2012 Sun Bowl and 2016 Gator Bowl)..

So it looks like he was able to make us competivie in a weak ACC FB Conf.... His scheme fits more military academies (as he chose not to pass lat Gt ike he did at Hawaii )or a G5 school, not a P5 program... As he could not recuit kid to play in the scheme and the list of kids who transferred is quit long...(Vad Lee, Jeff Greene, could name more)

Facts are Facts...

Ugly Bowl Losses on national stage w/ TO as scheme
Peach Bowl -LSU
OB - Iowa
Indy - Air Force
Sun Bowl - Utah
Music City Bowl - Ole Miss
Quick Lane Bowl - Minn

Other Key Losses :
Kansas 2010
MTSU 2012
BYU 2012
ACCG FSU 2012
BYU 2013
Duke 2014
ACCG FSU 2014
Duke 2015
entire 2015 season (except FSU Game)
Tenn 2017
Miami 2017
Duke 2017
UVA 2017
USF 2018
Pitt 2018
Duke 2018

Can’t wait for your list of bowl wins and other key wins.

 

[awbuzz]

Could have been different if Ratliffe didn't have his accident...or Lucas didn't get hurt...or Matthew Jordan stayed healthy and won the job...or Mills didn't get kicked out...or...

CPJ adjusted to what he had to work with and managed to squeeze some wins out of it, but it wasn't pretty, and it wasn't really even the 3O most times.. Definitely soured many fans on the scheme, IMO.

+1