What needs to happen for you to want to keep CPJ?

[Henrymcg]

Just curious, but did you think the same about someone replacing ccg?

I was hurt when it was time for CCG to go.. but it was a different era

Question:
How well do you think Dabo would recruit at Tech?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Eric said this wasn't a "fire the coach" thread..... lol.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

JT has renewed my interest in the triple option, it would be a real shame to fire
Paul now with the perfect quarterback and the offense working so well. Defense has got to improve obviously, give Ted time to get his players and develop them, he is an awesome recruiter and i think in 2-3 years our D will be something to be proud of once again.

This is how I feel. CPJ's offense is working well and we don't have many blue chip players on it. Thomas, a misfit qb who everybody in the country passed on for that position and a converted baseball player, THAT'S IT! That's the difference between O and D. You can be effective on O with little to no blue chip players with the right scheme if it's different enough and if you are super efficient at it. There's no equivalent on D, you need the horses or you get beat, period.

 

[danny daniel]

JHD and Whitehead play the same position as Freeman.

And so does Simmons but I expect JHD to move to SDE or DT...?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I have said all I desire to about CPJ's job status. It was plausible preseason that depending on how it played out Bobinski could even do an in-season firing. But after the VT win and definitively after the Miami win such a scenario really became unthinkable. If he loses out then sure, Bobinski could decide to fire him but that would still be after the regular season. I hope that doesn't happen simply because I am a Tech fan and live and die every game hoping the team can win the game. Even after I was personally sick of Gailey and believed he needed to go (or Hewitt) I still lived and died while watching each and every game hoping that the Tech team and players would win.

But I do want to point out one facet of CPJ's tenure as head coach at Tech as well as through his career that I find really fascinating and that does speak well to the man. Namely, he consistently demonstrates that he is not "scared" of losing in the sense that he will run a program the way he believes it is "right" to run it and live with the results. ****Note well that this is not how a head coach acts at a factory or is even allowed to act.**** Tennessee in recruiting Rocky Reid illustrates the difference in integrity of a factory program from Tech and CPJ. Here are my arguments to make this claim:

1) CPJ has proven at every job he has had the willingness to stick around and try and build a long term sustainable program of solid success. Both Southern and Navy have been more capable of sustaining success after having CPJ spend the years he did there as head coach. He is in Southern's HOF for crying eye. Have you ever thought about that fact? It is a real achievement as a head coach to build programs that can sustain wins after you leave/retire. CPJ has accomplished that twice.

2) CPJ specifically turned down more than one opportunity to leave Tech to go elsewhere after his initial successes. Ross, O'Leary . . . they did not do that. And we rightfully honor those head coaches memory anyway for what they showed could be accomplished here. But neither stuck around and tried to truly build a program of sustainable success at Tech. (Notice that I take "long views" on the program I love).

3) As with any head coach CPJ needs enough results--"wins"--to continue on at Tech but he clearly has not been scared to lose in the way that a coach has to be scared when they go into a factory. That is how such coaches have no choice but to rely on a network of recruiting bagmen and typically have zero standards of player behavior (cough cough FSU cough) plus need to rely on an academic administration and college environment that has zero compunction about exploiting an athlete by not giving them a legitimate education (basically all schools that are not "Institutes").

I do hope that CPJ gets enough of the really important wins this year and next year so as to shore up the fan base and his position with Bobinski. Ultimately wins decide hirings and firings. I want this primarily because I simply root for the program. However, I also want these wins because I do appreciate that CPJ has done things "right" in a way that even Ross and O'Leary did not necessarily do or at least not under the same NCAA regime (APR) or continue to do when another program (O'Leary) or the NFL (Ross) came calling for them. Our current coach did not flip his early success into chasing "greener" pastures. He clearly believes in the challenge of building sustainable success and programs that "do right" by the student-athletes, those young men, recruited to come to Tech.

Ok, now I really will try and not get absorbed into these discussions again until the offseason. I want to see what happens going forward for good (close wins) and ill (close heartbreaking losses) in what looks to be a razors edge season of very tough competitive games.

My last word will be that playing in "tough and competitive" games closely decided on errors and specific plays week in and out is actually a POSITIVE sign for a program. I know it doesn't feel that way because close losses hurt so much more . . . but you have to compare the current experience to having a program with a team that is so unbelievably outmatched that they just get dominated in game after game by any opponent. That scenario has happened before at Tech! It is happening right now at various other equally proud programs (Michigan). Winning and losing such closely competitive games is simply not on the same level of "bad" for a program; even if we decide to call it average or mediocre it points in a different fundamental direction than the other kind of situation. TL/DR

 

[Essobee]

2) CPJ specifically turned down more than one opportunity to leave Tech to go elsewhere after his initial successes. Ross, O'Leary . . . they did not do that. And we rightfully honor those head coaches memory anyway for what they showed could be accomplished here. But neither stuck around and tried to truly build a program of sustainable success at Tech. (Notice that I take "long views" on the program I love).

Thanks for pointing this ^ out, BW. Even one of our own, Bill Curry, left us for "greener pastures." That was the first time I recall Tech becoming a head coach's "stepping stone." I don't know CPJ personally, but the fact that he is working tirelessly to bring us a sustainable program speaks volumes and puts CPJ in an elite class with Homer Rice, IMHO.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Thanks for pointing this ^ out, BW. Even one of our own, Bill Curry, left us for "greener pastures." That was the first time I recall Tech becoming a head coach's "stepping stone." I don't know CPJ personally, but the fact that he is working tirelessly to bring us a sustainable program speaks volumes and puts CPJ in an elite class with Homer Rice, IMHO.

Oh yeah I should have added in Curry as well. Clearly CPJ has to get enough wins to prove he can "do it" long term at Tech. That was always the case and never changes. Any coach can get fired without enough wins no matter the other aspects they bring to being a head coach.

But this fact of his clearly having a track record of "program building" and ones where success could be sustained after he left at Southern and Navy, does rank way up there for me as an important aspect of his "fit" as Tech coach. Gailey had that flirtation with the NFL even but maybe he did want to really try and stick it out at program building at Tech. It is hard for me to say. Clearly though Gailey also proves how not getting enough of the important wins can get you fired from Tech. CPJ does have that ACC Championship, and the one win over UGA that early on suggested he had a higher upside from Gailey. Now he is at a point where he has proven dedicated to program building where Curry/Ross/O'Leary all did not prove to have that commitment. Hence, I find it easy to hope CPJ proves capable of doing this at Tech and gets enough of those key wins to get the full chance to prove one way or the other that he can or cannot build sustained success in a program at Tech.

 

[Eastman]

It could be strongly argued that Tech is unique and that therefore a 6 or 7 win seasons should be accepted as a pretty good year. As for this year, many thought that it would be a bad season because of player losses, lack of talent etc. Personally I think offense is strong and getting better and the defense will be much better next year. If that assessment is fairly accurate, now doesn't seem to be the time to fire the coach.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It could be strongly argued that Tech is unique and that therefore a 6 or 7 win seasons should be accepted as a pretty good year. As for this year, many thought that it would be a bad season because of player losses, lack of talent etc. Personally I think offense is strong and getting better and the defense will be much better next year. If that assessment is fairly accurate, now doesn't seem to be the time to fire the coach.

I think average/mediocre years in wins and losses like 6-7 win seasons are often very hard to evaluate.

They can seem to point to decline or treading water in a Dave Braine way that factored into firing Gailey . . . or they can point in a direction where a program is very very close to great seasons. Serious debate and strong differences of opinion among a fan base of a 7 or 6 win team are therefore a normal phenomenon.

I am of the opinion that the development of Thomas, the sustainability of offensive performance qua system--plugging in new Abacks, WRs and BBacks year after year that frequently have similar output--and the fact that so many of the losses are very close ones in very competitive games all suggest that some of these 7 or 6 win average or mediocre years for CPJ at Tech have not been pointing to decline or just treading water. I am guardedly optimistic that there are such signs (include expanded recruiting staff and seemingly better recruiting) that thus the direction Tech's 7 win seasons points is more "upward" in potential result than down.

 

[jeffgt14]

It could be strongly argued that Tech is unique and that therefore a 6 or 7 win seasons should be accepted as a pretty good year. As for this year, many thought that it would be a bad season because of player losses, lack of talent etc. Personally I think offense is strong and getting better and the defense will be much better next year. If that assessment is fairly accurate, now doesn't seem to be the time to fire the coach.

Did you use to be our AD?

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

It is odd to me that so many of the guys on this site thought that this team was going to be special after losing SIX def starters incl best players and starting a new QB(no matter how talented) with a mostly new OL..LAST year to me was to be the big yr and PJ blew it somehow with Vad.Even with the big wins early this was a VERY seriously weak DEF team on paper and has proven to be that on the field.He has to responsible for that--a weak def AGAIN.
otoh- he has excited the fan base with the "new" wins.This was a nice change .this yr could still be a bomb with 6-6 and a loss in a bowl. To me with a ROUGH schedule next yr his record again will suffer.
THE best reason to keep him is this seems to be a solid recruit class and Lord knows we need it.
I can't answer with the choices given.

Well whenever Georgia Tech gets to 5-0 it conjures up visions of 1990, where a team that was NOT the best team in the nation, caught fire and went undefeated. I think you have been a fan for a long long time, like me, and you will have to admit, Tech does some remarkable things every now and then. Things that defy logic. But you are correct, it was foolish to go all in knowing how depleted of athletes we are on defense. I am hoping that we can scrounge a couple of more wins out of this season---but there is a lot of video tape out there now documenting where are warts are.

 

[Eastman]

Did you use to be our AD?

I think average/mediocre years in wins and losses like 6-7 win seasons are often very hard to evaluate.

They can seem to point to decline or treading water in a Dave Braine way that factored into firing Gailey . . . or they can point in a direction where a program is very very close to great seasons. Serious debate and strong differences of opinion among a fan base of a 7 or 6 win team are therefore a normal phenomenon.

I am of the opinion that the development of Thomas, the sustainability of offensive performance qua system--plugging in new Abacks, WRs and BBacks year after year that frequently have similar output--and the fact that so many of the losses are very close ones in very competitive games all suggest that some of these 7 or 6 win average or mediocre years for CPJ at Tech have not been pointing to decline or just treading water. I am guardedly optimistic that there are such signs (include expanded recruiting staff and seemingly better recruiting) that thus the direction Tech's 7 win seasons points is more "upward" in potential result than down.

Agreed, The tendency in that I see from many people is to look at several individual areas for complaint or praise and not see the whole picture. For example "the defensive line stinks this year, or the defense has been subpar for many years, so we should change the head coach" while others argue "the offense has produced well for many years therefore we should keep the head coach".

While I would hate for us to miss out on another "Dodd" level coach by staying with CPJ, I really don't think such a "savior" coach exists for Tech and am optimistic that the future should be brighter than the last few years if we stay the course. Hope I am correct.

 

[Eastman]

Did you use to be our AD?

No. If I was, my house would be paid off, I would be at every game, and also ignore any thoughts in this forum from "Eastman" .

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I have said all I desire to about CPJ's job status. It was plausible preseason that depending on how it played out Bobinski could even do an in-season firing. But after the VT win and definitively after the Miami win such a scenario really became unthinkable. If he loses out then sure, Bobinski could decide to fire him but that would still be after the regular season. I hope that doesn't happen simply because I am a Tech fan and live and die every game hoping the team can win the game. Even after I was personally sick of Gailey and believed he needed to go (or Hewitt) I still lived and died while watching each and every game hoping that the Tech team and players would win.

But I do want to point out one facet of CPJ's tenure as head coach at Tech as well as through his career that I find really fascinating and that does speak well to the man. Namely, he consistently demonstrates that he is not "scared" of losing in the sense that he will run a program the way he believes it is "right" to run it and live with the results. ****Note well that this is not how a head coach acts at a factory or is even allowed to act.**** Tennessee in recruiting Rocky Reid illustrates the difference in integrity of a factory program from Tech and CPJ. Here are my arguments to make this claim:

1) CPJ has proven at every job he has had the willingness to stick around and try and build a long term sustainable program of solid success. Both Southern and Navy have been more capable of sustaining success after having CPJ spend the years he did there as head coach. He is in Southern's HOF for crying eye. Have you ever thought about that fact? It is a real achievement as a head coach to build programs that can sustain wins after you leave/retire. CPJ has accomplished that twice.

2) CPJ specifically turned down more than one opportunity to leave Tech to go elsewhere after his initial successes. Ross, O'Leary . . . they did not do that. And we rightfully honor those head coaches memory anyway for what they showed could be accomplished here. But neither stuck around and tried to truly build a program of sustainable success at Tech. (Notice that I take "long views" on the program I love).

3) As with any head coach CPJ needs enough results--"wins"--to continue on at Tech but he clearly has not been scared to lose in the way that a coach has to be scared when they go into a factory. That is how such coaches have no choice but to rely on a network of recruiting bagmen and typically have zero standards of player behavior (cough cough FSU cough) plus need to rely on an academic administration and college environment that has zero compunction about exploiting an athlete by not giving them a legitimate education (basically all schools that are not "Institutes").

I do hope that CPJ gets enough of the really important wins this year and next year so as to shore up the fan base and his position with Bobinski. Ultimately wins decide hirings and firings. I want this primarily because I simply root for the program. However, I also want these wins because I do appreciate that CPJ has done things "right" in a way that even Ross and O'Leary did not necessarily do or at least not under the same NCAA regime (APR) or continue to do when another program (O'Leary) or the NFL (Ross) came calling for them. Our current coach did not flip his early success into chasing "greener" pastures. He clearly believes in the challenge of building sustainable success and programs that "do right" by the student-athletes, those young men, recruited to come to Tech.

Ok, now I really will try and not get absorbed into these discussions again until the offseason. I want to see what happens going forward for good (close wins) and ill (close heartbreaking losses) in what looks to be a razors edge season of very tough competitive games.

My last word will be that playing in "tough and competitive" games closely decided on errors and specific plays week in and out is actually a POSITIVE sign for a program. I know it doesn't feel that way because close losses hurt so much more . . . but you have to compare the current experience to having a program with a team that is so unbelievably outmatched that they just get dominated in game after game by any opponent. That scenario has happened before at Tech! It is happening right now at various other equally proud programs (Michigan). Winning and losing such closely competitive games is simply not on the same level of "bad" for a program; even if we decide to call it average or mediocre it points in a different fundamental direction than the other kind of situation. TL/DR

Excellent post! So many of our fans fail to realize the constricted academic climate that differentiates the Ross and O'Leary eras from today. It's day and night. Also, your last paragraph rings truest of all. But that won't sway the "bottom liners" that look solely at w/l record for their sense of self worth and thus whether the coach is worth keeping or not.

Another big plus that comes along with CPJ is that his offense gives our team an identity it has sorely lacked for a long time. Even factories want no part of playing us OOC and it's because of our offense. I don't know how more folks don't embrace it, I really don't.

 

[daBuzz]

1) CPJ has proven at every job he has had the willingness to stick around and try and build a long term sustainable program of solid success. Both Southern and Navy have been more capable of sustaining success after having CPJ spend the years he did there as head coach. He is in Southern's HOF for crying eye. Have you ever thought about that fact? It is a real achievement as a head coach to build programs that can sustain wins after you leave/retire. CPJ has accomplished that twice.

2) CPJ specifically turned down more than one opportunity to leave Tech to go elsewhere after his initial successes. Ross, O'Leary . . . they did not do that. And we rightfully honor those head coaches memory anyway for what they showed could be accomplished here. But neither stuck around and tried to truly build a program of sustainable success at Tech. (Notice that I take "long views" on the program I love).

Two points:
1) Not disputing the success that Paul had at Southern, but that program was built by Erk Russell and Paul continued it. After he left, the program absolutely took a hit in success when Sewak took over as head coach, so I'm not sure this argument is very valid.

2) I'm fairly certain that Paul has not turned down a job offer since he's been at Tech. I know for sure that he has been approached to judge his interest (Auburn was one of those at one point, by the way) but as far as I'm aware, he hasn't interviewed or been offered any other positions.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Two points:
1) Not disputing the success that Paul had at Southern, but that program was built by Erk Russell and Paul continued it. After he left, the program absolutely took a hit in success when Sewak took over as head coach, so I'm not sure this argument is very valid.

2) I'm fairly certain that Paul has not turned down a job offer since he's been at Tech. I know for sure that he has been approached to judge his interest (Auburn was one of those at one point, by the way) but as far as I'm aware, he hasn't interviewed or been offered any other positions.

On 1, of course I know that Erk Russell built Southern, but with Johnson's help. Sewak did have success at Southern. Why do you think they went back to the Johnson coaching tree and option game after the real failure of the Hatcher experiment? Niumatolo hasn't necessarily had the level of success as Johnson did at Navy all things considered either but I think my point that both programs clearly reflect ongoing success and in the mold of his past influence still stands.

On number two CPJ has spoken directly to my point. His statements are what I based my opinion on and they trump your claims to "insider" knowledge.

 

[awbuzz]

No doubt that the O is not he problem and that yes CPJ is the head coach and responsible for the D too.

Short of losing out AND losing team chemistry I just don't see a reasonable mind demanding he be fired. Unless someone has a big name that'll keep our recruiting class or improve upon it (if so please provide name and how we can afford), I think dumping CPJ will be short term feel good moment for some. However doing so will cause extended mediocre or worse issues for a few years to come.

Bottom line I think GT is on the rise and that will show on the field in the next two or three years. Hate to throw that out knowing that we should have an improved D line next year (IMO).

 

[dressedcheeseside]

If JHD had made grades and Commissiong hadn't f'd up, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Well whenever Georgia Tech gets to 5-0 it conjures up visions of 1990, where a team that was NOT the best team in the nation, caught fire and went undefeated. I think you have been a fan for a long long time, like me, and you will have to admit, Tech does some remarkable things every now and then. Things that defy logic. But you are correct, it was foolish to go all in knowing how depleted of athletes we are on defense. I am hoping that we can scrounge a couple of more wins out of this season---but there is a lot of video tape out there now documenting where are warts are.

Damn I'm tired of Tech fans saying our 1990 team was not the best team that year. We were. You really think Colorado...with their losses and 5th down win...was the better team? Just damn. (To argue against this...our schedule that year was not as weak as many claim. UVA tanking late has given rise to this thinking largely. UVA tanked due to injuries...when we played them they had only one significant loss for the year, an All America tight end lost the week b4 the Tech game. After Tech the suffered injuries to both Moore's, QB and All-America Wr and never recovered. Then look at what we did to Clemson, UGA, and Nebraska that year. We deserved #1 and Colorado getting a share was pure BS.) ....Rant and derail finished.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

@daBuzz.....the reason he hasn't had a job interview or turned an official offer down is because he told em he wasn't interested. So I really don't get your point on #2.