What needs to happen for you to want to keep CPJ?

[Bruce Wayne]

For all our challenges and frustrations (many of which I share) we would make a significant mistake running off the leader of our organization right now. In fact, we are doing ourselves a disservice even talking about it.

This is the part I strongly agree with. Fire head coach threads absolutely have their time and place and are appropriate in those times and places. Definitely appropriate this preseason when reasonable to think of CPJ as on a warm or hot seat. However, after the win at Blacksburg I really began to believe that "should CPJ be fired" type discussions deserved to be tabled until the offseason. I think that if the team were to lose the rest of its regular season games then Bobinski may make such a decision but still, it would be after the regular season ends. I just don't see a scenario where he fires the head coach during this season after the VT and then Miami wins.

Just like last year a loss at home (Duke this year and VT last) really really hurt. That is probably going to be the truly disappointing game result of the season. I think reaction to this loss has more to do with the missed opportunity and failure to execute and win at home of last week against Duke than it does with what actually occurred up in Chapel Hill.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Also want to add:

Primarily because this site is trafficked by recruits and their parents and family of current players I prefer to see the "fire the head coach" threads relegated to the end of the regular season. This site is in a unique position as a forum that can help the fans present a positive front and message and be welcoming to kids and families that are trying to decide whether to be a part of the Georgia Tech football program. Special and unique things should be treated as such.

This is not about censorship or avoiding debate it is about choosing the time and appropriate venue or place to have those debates. I can't see a scenario now where CPJ is fired during the regular season. Therefore, I don't have the motivation to try and debate his status during this time-frame. (So I didn't vote in the poll either).

 

[TechTravis]

First of all, I'm new here, so maybe this isn't normally the case, but there seem to be a lot of people here who overvalue "star rankings." Fretting about stars is something people with too much time on their hands do.

Secondly, I've come to believe as an alum that it isn't the degree of difficulty that keeps kids out of Georgia Tech. It's the lack of academic diversity. I hear people say all the time "well, if Stanford/Northwestern/Duke/insert other good academic school here can do it, then why can't we?" It isn't the hard classes. Its that a kid that goes to one of those other schools never has to darken the door of a calculus class. Even if "survey" is easier than what most kids have to take. You know what's easier than survey? NOT TAKING CALCULUS. A smart kid, one that GT might have interest in, and one that might have interest in GT, can look at two great academic programs and realize that he isn't good enough at math to make it at GT. Meanwhile, the coursework at Stanford/NW/Duke et al might be just as tough, but its in a degree program they have far more interest in. Until whoever the coach is at GT is allowed to either: recruit from the same set of kids everyone else is, or: Be given a FAR more diverse selection in degree of study programs, the next coach is just going to have the same problem. CPJ may not be the best coach out there, but he isn't the problem. The problem goes much higher than that.

I remember vividly an anecdote being shared about when Dan Radakovich was conducting interviews for the coach to replace Chan Gailey. I heard from more than one source that Radakovich wanted to hire Jimbo Fisher, but that Fisher told him he "didn't have the resources" Fisher thought he needed to compete. Until that changes, GT will not compete at the highest possible level. What we as fans need to do is figure out what, if anything, we can do about it...

 

[COJacket]

'91.. I respect your opinion... For me, it's very difficult to evaluate a leader of ANY organization by looking at any single event (or a couple of events) during the course of a year and determine "they should go"... GT Football is a business, pure and simple, and like any other business, leadership is evaluated on many things. You will never see a serious business evaluate senior leadership based on this weeks Staff Meeting, or this months sales performance. They are evaluated on the direction of the organization, their impact on team morale, their ability to specifically address the obstacles standing between current results and the company's stated goals.

I do not know PJ, have never met him, and have ZERO personal bias one way or the other with him... I believe that if we look at things objectively we might conclude that running him off would be a terrible idea for our program.

We act as if our program was performing at the highest level until PJ got here and wrecked it.... that is simply not true.

The players respect him, he is, I believe, a "winner"...he has a defiant, winning attitude, and respects the players by believing in their ability and DEMANDING their very best. That is respect, and it is appreciated by competitors. The opposite, for comparison, is "Oh, bless their hearts, they're trying but just aren't that good".... a weak and pathetic trait that I have NEVER seen exhibited by Coach Johnson.

-He saw the need to improve Special Teams and he did something about it.
-He saw the need to improve graduation rates and has been very successful raising those rates
-He saw the need to recruit a QB that fits the offense and he successfully found JT... JT is good now and will only be better the next 2.5 years
-He saw the need to improve defensively and made a legitimate effort by hiring Coach Roof... he has not yet been successful in this effort yet. This one is critical and MUST be addressed... it is a deal breaker if not fixed quickly (next year or two)
-He saw the need to ramp up recruiting across the board and by all accounts has been successful in gaining some level of support from the administration to broaden the pool of prospects we can recruit and enroll.. the value of this cannot be over stated... that support most likely came as the result of them having confidence in PJ and his demonstrated results in monitoring academic performance by the players and rising graduation rates. The 2015 class, I think we would all agree, is loaded. It represents demonstrated improvement and "payout" for his efforts in broadening our pool of approachable prospects.
-He has been consistent, fair, and DECISIVE in dealing with disciplinary issues... that, in any organization, builds trust, confidence, loyalty. Those things build winning organizations. It fills each individual contributor with a desire for the "team" to reach it's desired outcome.

For all our challenges and frustrations (many of which I share) we would make a significant mistake running off the leader of our organization right now. In fact, we are doing ourselves a disservice even talking about it.

I'm not sure what the results will be from our "enhanced" recruiting capabilities will be but early results are very favorable. Let a few cycles play out and let's evaluate then. I will be investing my energy and whatever money and influence I can towards the support of our program. I want that 5th NC and I genuinely believe we can achieve that in the next 3-5 years. My part is small, but all of our small parts are huge.

Hope you have a great Sunday my friend!

I voted keep him no matter what for exactly these reasons. Excellent post GPD. I do believe now we will end either 7-5 or 8-4 and that will be good enough given what we all knew (or anyone who really was trying to analyze what was going on with DL in the offseason). Our offense is GREAT and is fun to watch. PJ should stay for at least another 2-3 years IMHO before making any changes. And OBTW, I hate these posts in the middle of the season as well Bruce. they do us no good in any way.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

I remember vividly an anecdote being shared about when Dan Radakovich was conducting interviews for the coach to replace Chan Gailey. I heard from more than one source that Radakovich wanted to hire Jimbo Fisher, but that Fisher told him he "didn't have the resources" Fisher thought he needed to compete. Until that changes, GT will not compete at the highest possible level. What we as fans need to do is figure out what, if anything, we can do about it...

That's a political paraphrase of what he said from what I heard.

 

[stylee]

If we fire CPJ, will our defense improve?

 

[ChasonBaller]

If Paul was to get fired at some point I want Godsey. I think he would do well here.

100% agree

 

[ChasonBaller]

If CPJ does get fired, I would like to see the spread offense(Auburn style) or the complete opposite and have Godsey style and have 5 wide and a rocket arm QB.

 

[Atomic Jacket]

I'm seeing a disturbing theme in this thread, in which people are suggesting that there should be less, not more, free speech of a controversial topic. With all due respect, that's the kind of thing you see in totalitarian governments like Stalinist Russia or Communist China, where governments try to suppress freedom of expression in the misguided attempt to increase stability. What is needed is MORE speech, not LESS.

I encourage defenders of Johnson to fully and wholeheartedly throw their support for his continued employment at Tech. I also encourage the opponents of Johnson to fully voice their opinions on why Tech should go in another direction. A full airing and debate of a controversial topic is the only way that a good solution can be arrived at. Suppression of dissent (either side) only leads to resentment and discontent.

I also want to address this concern I see raised from time to time, that it is "damaging" to have "coach firing" discussions in a forum in which recruits and their families can see the debate. Not only is it okay for recruits and their families to see debates on the coach's future, but morally it is the right thing to do, to let them know that there may be a question about the future stability of the football program. If you are trying to sell your house, you are morally (and legally) obligated to let prospective buyers know if there are any structural, plumbing, termite, or any other issues that they may need to be aware of in the future. If there are any questions whatsoever, even if you think it isn't a problem, you MUST let the buyer know. A similar obligation exists with respect to recruits coming to a school. If there is some doubt as to whether the coach's job is on solid footing, it is immoral to suppress that knowledge from the recruits and their families by censoring discussions in public arenas among the fanbase about the coach's future.

Finally, I want to address the concern that discussions of this sort only have a place at the end of a season, not midseason. This is nonsense. As anyone who has followed college football knows, it takes time to build momentum for a major change. Public opinion can't be changed overnight, with rare exceptions. If a debate is put off until after a season, then it may be too late. There is not enough time for a debate to start, for momentum to build, for pressure to be applied to the administration by donors, and finally for action to be taken by the administration. The coaching carousel typically happens right at the end of the season, and if a school isn't ready to act, then they'll be left in the lurch. The debate needs to happen during the season, so that when the season's end comes, enough momentum will have been built up that the administration will have public backing to take action.

Bottom line is that more free speech is never the wrong answer, as long as ALL sides of an issue are free to add their opinions.

 

[alaguy]

It is odd to me that so many of the guys on this site thought that this team was going to be special after losing SIX def starters incl best players and starting a new QB(no matter how talented) with a mostly new OL..LAST year to me was to be the big yr and PJ blew it somehow with Vad.Even with the big wins early this was a VERY seriously weak DEF team on paper and has proven to be that on the field.He has to responsible for that--a weak def AGAIN.
otoh- he has excited the fan base with the "new" wins.This was a nice change .this yr could still be a bomb with 6-6 and a loss in a bowl. To me with a ROUGH schedule next yr his record again will suffer.
THE best reason to keep him is this seems to be a solid recruit class and Lord knows we need it.
I can't answer with the choices given.

 

[Animal02]

First of all, I'm new here, so maybe this isn't normally the case, but there seem to be a lot of people here who overvalue "star rankings." Fretting about stars is something people with too much time on their hands do.

Secondly, I've come to believe as an alum that it isn't the degree of difficulty that keeps kids out of Georgia Tech. It's the lack of academic diversity.

I would say it is both, though the degree diversity is a major impact. I have posted in other forum and threads about the same issue.....Tech offers about 35 undergraduate degrees.......every one of them is a SCIENCE degree despite "liberal arts" being in the name of one of the colleges. I comparison, Stanford has somewhere in the range of 100 undergraduate degrees, and Michigan State offers 185 or so. The limited degree offering is the first stumbling block to recruiting, then the academic difficulty and difficulty of admissions. Tech is more like the service academies than any other D1 school.

 

[Animal02]

It is odd to me that so many of the guys on this site thought that this team was going to be special after losing SIX def starters incl best players and starting a new QB(no matter how talented) with a mostly new OL..LAST year to me was to be the big yr and PJ blew it somehow with Vad.Even with the big wins early this was a VERY seriously weak DEF team on paper and has proven to be that on the field.He has to responsible for that--a weak def AGAIN.
otoh- he has excited the fan base with the "new" wins.This was a nice change .this yr could still be a bomb with 6-6 and a loss in a bowl. To me with a ROUGH schedule next yr his record again will suffer.
THE best reason to keep him is this seems to be a solid recruit class and Lord knows we need it.
I can't answer with the choices given.

I had said at the beginning of the year 8-4.....with a few a little luck 9-3, and a whole lot of luck 10-2........we are only a couple plays shy of being undefeated.....despite a very weak D. People seem to forget that based on talent....UNC was projected to win the coastal this year...and they were desperate for a win yesterday. Our next three games are very winnable......and the team has not shown any signs of giving up.

 

[iceeater1969]

Just voted - keep through 2015 - per previous comments in response to gtnavynuke analysis, we would only do a kind of change if we do it now. I said wait till 2015 when we play ND and FSU who will be trying to win NC (an idea lost to many gt fans). Now I see too many gt folks happy with 7-5 or 8 -4 (with two free wins over wofford, gsu, Tulane, etc). That's like aiming for kind of good then painting mediocre to reach that goal.

When we change or extend we need all or almost all of us be ready to accept and be proud of the foundation coach has built. but be ready to move to the next level of support. I am ready to go all in.
I think coach will get in the trenches and fix this timid defense issue and finish strong. we need to get behind him to just get by 2015 with average to good record - putting up fight in all games. We will know next year.

 

[GPD]

I'm seeing a disturbing theme in this thread, in which people are suggesting that there should be less, not more, free speech of a controversial topic. With all due respect, that's the kind of thing you see in totalitarian governments like Stalinist Russia or Communist China, where governments try to suppress freedom of expression in the misguided attempt to increase stability. What is needed is MORE speech, not LESS.

I encourage defenders of Johnson to fully and wholeheartedly throw their support for his continued employment at Tech. I also encourage the opponents of Johnson to fully voice their opinions on why Tech should go in another direction. A full airing and debate of a controversial topic is the only way that a good solution can be arrived at. Suppression of dissent (either side) only leads to resentment and discontent.

I also want to address this concern I see raised from time to time, that it is "damaging" to have "coach firing" discussions in a forum in which recruits and their families can see the debate. Not only is it okay for recruits and their families to see debates on the coach's future, but morally it is the right thing to do, to let them know that there may be a question about the future stability of the football program. If you are trying to sell your house, you are morally (and legally) obligated to let prospective buyers know if there are any structural, plumbing, termite, or any other issues that they may need to be aware of in the future. If there are any questions whatsoever, even if you think it isn't a problem, you MUST let the buyer know. A similar obligation exists with respect to recruits coming to a school. If there is some doubt as to whether the coach's job is on solid footing, it is immoral to suppress that knowledge from the recruits and their families by censoring discussions in public arenas among the fanbase about the coach's future.

Finally, I want to address the concern that discussions of this sort only have a place at the end of a season, not midseason. This is nonsense. As anyone who has followed college football knows, it takes time to build momentum for a major change. Public opinion can't be changed overnight, with rare exceptions. If a debate is put off until after a season, then it may be too late. There is not enough time for a debate to start, for momentum to build, for pressure to be applied to the administration by donors, and finally for action to be taken by the administration. The coaching carousel typically happens right at the end of the season, and if a school isn't ready to act, then they'll be left in the lurch. The debate needs to happen during the season, so that when the season's end comes, enough momentum will have been built up that the administration will have public backing to take action.

Bottom line is that more free speech is never the wrong answer, as long as ALL sides of an issue are free to add their opinions.

I will respectfully disagree with the premise of your comment that it is "immoral" with regard to your example of real estate disclosures.

I am going to assume that you are not the AD or President of the institute... therefore you (nor I) are in any position to make hiring and firing decisions anyway. Bobinski is in charge of that and he has never, in ANY way, demonstrated dissatisfaction with PJ's performance. So, there is NOTHING to disclose to a prospect. Your argument would have to be that we have a moral requirement to advertise rumors, innuendo, or the wishes of each individual that doesn't like the performance of any employee of Georgia Tech for the purpose of creating doubt in a prospect or parents minds. Doubt that would not be grounded in fact, but purely based on someone with no authority "declaring" there is a risk, even though there isn't one.

It would be like you going to your next job interview and just before it starts, you stop the process and tell your prospective employer that "this guy named GPD on The Swarm said he questions my long term viability as a scientist and it would be immoral for me not to disclose that"... ridiculous of course, and NO different.

Would you tell the prospective purchaser of your home that your neighbors cousin started a rumor that your foundation is flawed when in fact it isn't? No, of course not, why would you create doubt that isn't truth?

There may be a time when that foundation does crack, and there may come a time when PJ's performance is displeasing to his employer... but neither of those things are reality today... I guess if anything is immoral, it would be to present something as "an issue" when in reality, it isn't.

 

[sidewalkGTfan]

If we fire CPJ, will our defense improve?

If we keep him, will our defense improve?

I want to see the season play out before deciding on PJ's future, but he's been here 7 years now and we've never had a good defense or even a defense we could rely on to make a stop when we needed one. I gave up on the Chanster in the middle of the '07 season when I finally realized he wasn't capable of fielding a competent offense. I'm getting close to feeling the same about PJ and our defense.

 

[Atomic Jacket]

I will respectfully disagree with the premise of your comment that it is "immoral" with regard to your example of real estate disclosures.

I am going to assume that you are not the AD or President of the institute... therefore you (nor I) are in any position to make hiring and firing decisions anyway. Bobinski is in charge of that and he has never, in ANY way, demonstrated dissatisfaction with PJ's performance. So, there is NOTHING to disclose to a prospect. Your argument would have to be that we have a moral requirement to advertise rumors, innuendo, or the wishes of each individual that doesn't like the performance of any employee of Georgia Tech for the purpose of creating doubt in a prospect or parents minds. Doubt that would not be grounded in fact, but purely based on someone with no authority "declaring" there is a risk, even though there isn't one.

It would be like you going to your next job interview and just before it starts, you stop the process and tell your prospective employer that "this guy named GPD on The Swarm said he questions my long term viability as a scientist and it would be immoral for me not to disclose that"... ridiculous of course, and NO different.

Would you tell the prospective purchaser of your home that your neighbors cousin started a rumor that your foundation is flawed when in fact it isn't? No, of course not, why would you create doubt that isn't truth?

There may be a time when that foundation does crack, and there may come a time when PJ's performance is displeasing to his employer... but neither of those things are reality today... I guess if anything is immoral, it would be to present something as "an issue" when in reality, it isn't.

You and I both know that the administration will never reveal anything until the moment a change happens. If a recruit and his family want to judge the stability of a coach's future, one of the few resources they have to go on is public opinion. Let's say you were a parent of a recruit, and it was important for you and your son for him to go to a school with a particular style of offense, and it looks like you've found it at a certain college. You meet with the coach and the school and nothing leads you to believe his job is in jeopardy. Then you look in the news media and see some negative articles, but you know that decisions are generally made on the basis of the customer, which is the fan base. You look on message boards, and it seems that there is nothing but positive messages for coach. Little do you know, but there is a massive undercurrent of discontent with the coach, fans are not buying tickets, and the school is losing money from the top donors. Your son signs with the school, and then shortly thereafter, the coach is fired. A new guy comes in and your son gets pushed aside because he's not a fit for the new coach. If you'd only known about the massive discontent, you might have considered that, but because someone decided to suppress this discussion, you are now left in the lurch. You'd be furious at the guys who hid that information from you. This is a big decision these recruits are making, and the more information, the better for everyone involved.

 

[CHE90]

The thing is, Atomic would rather nuke the entire program just to get rid of Paul Johnson. Also, there is a difference between free speech and lobbing a hand grenade.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I'm not sure what company you work for, but I'd bet everything I own you don't give prospective employees a run down of every perceived flaw in your business. I sincerely doubt you give your current employees this information either. Somehow when it comes to GT football the administration is supposed to air every issue in public for all to see? Is this what you think everyone else is doing?

Somehow I can't see Michigan and Florida telling recruits, yeah our coach sucks and we're going to can him at the end of the year. What about VT? Think they're going to advertise Beamer's on the way out at the end of the year? Tennessee? Vandy? The list goes on.

 

[CHE90]

As I said, I believe Atomic has his own agenda and it stems from his abject hatred for Paul Johnson, Tech, or both. He sure seems like an unhappy person.

 

[jeffgt14]

I don't understand how anyone can say they want to fire CPJ and then talk about what kind of offense they want the next coach to run...