Virginia Postgame

[Augusta_Jacket]

We can't wait two more years. So many QB's are highly successful, can see the field, and know to protect the ball at all costs early in their careers, but you want us to wait until he is a 4th year player? He has incredible talent, but at some point you have to ask yourself, "What is more important, losing with a hyper talented, entertaining QB that throws crazy interceptions, or to win with a less talented QB that takes care of the ball?"

I mean, Jeff Sims as a freshman had one more INT than Peyton Manning had as a Junior. Maybe they should have benched Peyton since he threw 23 picks over his Jr-Sr seasons...

OR, maybe the issue isn't merely the QB but is rather the entire team as a whole.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

You are making a lot of sense with your posts today. He needs to be a complete QB by next season or it’s next man up.

If Sims isn't getting it done in the first 3 possessions or throws another interception that is his fault (i.e. not bouncing off our receivers hands), we should go to next QB in the VT game. Just IMHO.

Effort is great for who sees the field, but results are what should keep someone on the field. It's the second part that seems missing.

 

[yeti92]

I mean, Jeff Sims as a freshman had one more INT than Peyton Manning had as a Junior. Maybe they should have benched Peyton since he threw 23 picks over his Jr-Sr seasons...

OR, maybe the issue isn't merely the QB but is rather the entire team as a whole.

Peyton also put up a lot more td passes to go with those interceptions. It is definitely a team issue to some degree, and I don't think anyone expects Jeff to throw zero interceptions, we just want to see the better more consistent decision making on his part, like Yates does. He's 9:5 TD-INT right now which is pretty solid, but he's gotten lucky that some of his WTF plays got cancelled out by penalties or the defense not taking advantage. If you were to put Yates' decision-making/game management with Jeff's athletic ability, you would have arguably the best qb in the country.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Peyton also put up a lot more td passes to go with those interceptions. It is definitely a team issue to some degree, and I don't think anyone expects Jeff to throw zero interceptions, we just want to see the better more consistent decision making on his part, like Yates does. He's 9:5 TD-INT right now which is pretty solid, but he's gotten lucky that some of his WTF plays got cancelled out by penalties or the defense not taking advantage. If you were to put Yates' decision-making/game management with Jeff's athletic ability, you would have arguably the best qb in the country.

Interesting fact: Jeff Sims passer rate this year is better than Manning's in either his Junior or senior year.

 

[BonafideJacket]

Interesting fact: Jeff Sims passer rate this year is better than Manning's in either his Junior or senior year.

Also interesting: Jaybo Shaw, Synjyn Days, Tim Byerly, Tate Martell, and Ryan Perriloux, among others, also all have a higher career passer rating than Peyton Manning.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Also interesting: Jaybo Shaw, Synjyn Days, Tim Byerly, Tate Martell, and Ryan Perriloux, among others, also all have a higher career passer rating than Peyton Manning.

You know what else those 4 have in common? None had over 75 attempts as a college QB during their career. Nice try...

 

[WreckinGT]

Interesting fact: Jeff Sims passer rate this year is better than Manning's in either his Junior or senior year.

I'm all for defending a guy but trying to convince everyone that Sims is better than Peyton Manning seems like a questionable route.

 

[lv20gt]

He has incredible talent, but at some point you have to ask yourself, "What is more important, losing with a hyper talented, entertaining QB that throws crazy interceptions, or to win with a less talented QB that takes care of the ball?"

Except you are presenting a choice that we have no reason to believe we have. We aren't winning with a less talented QB just because he takes care of the ball. The only loss that you can really even start to pin on turnovers this year was the NIU game but even then it was more general offensive ineffectiveness than turnovers. We were even with them that game.

Against Clemson we didn't turn it over (until the last play of the game).
Against Pitt, the two turnovers didn't help but we couldn't stop them nor could we establish a running game. Just hanging on to the ball wasn't going to win that game certainly if it came at the price of less production from the QB position.
Against UVA the turnover effectively was little different than a stalled drive and a good punt. We got the ball at our 25 and gave it back to them at their 18. But somehow if we just picked up one first down, then got stopped, and had a punt inside the 20 people would think it was much less hurtful than what we got.

QB play this year is not the biggest factor of our losses except maybe the NIU game, and potentially the Clemson game because the other phases did as well as could be reasonably expected.

In general, turnovers are more punishing if you have a good defense/special teams because field position can be a better tool and so the relative value of a punt vs a turnover is higher. With our current team the way it is people vastly overrate just holding onto the ball as if punting gives us points.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I'm all for defending a guy but trying to convince everyone that Sims is better than Peyton Manning seems like a questionable route.

I'm not saying he's better than Manning. I am simply pointing out that his rating is in the same ball park as Manning. With as many games and attempts as Sims has had, that's not an accident or because of a small sample size. People keep wanting to blame Sims but in reality the losses this season are not the fault of Sims or his passing. Granted, he came out flat against NIU, and I think we can reasonably hang that loss on him, but he has played pretty well in every game he's been in since. I think what we are missing is just how special a QB we actually have. He may never be Manning, but he's one of the most talented QBs to ever play at GT. Considering the rebuilding OL, he's been exceptional so far this season.

 

[yeti92]

Except you are presenting a choice that we have no reason to believe we have. We aren't winning with a less talented QB just because he takes care of the ball. The only loss that you can really even start to pin on turnovers this year was the NIU game but even then it was more general offensive ineffectiveness than turnovers. We were even with them that game.

Against Clemson we didn't turn it over (until the last play of the game).
Against Pitt, the two turnovers didn't help but we couldn't stop them nor could we establish a running game. Just hanging on to the ball wasn't going to win that game certainly if it came at the price of less production from the QB position.
Against UVA the turnover effectively was little different than a stalled drive and a good punt. We got the ball at our 25 and gave it back to them at their 18. But somehow if we just picked up one first down, then got stopped, and had a punt inside the 20 people would think it was much less hurtful than what we got.

QB play this year is not the biggest factor of our losses except maybe the NIU game, and potentially the Clemson game because the other phases did as well as could be reasonably expected.

In general, turnovers are more punishing if you have a good defense/special teams because field position can be a better tool and so the relative value of a punt vs a turnover is higher. With our current team the way it is people vastly overrate just holding onto the ball as if punting gives us points.

The only game that supports the point of Sims being more effective than Yates is UNC, and the NIU game directly contradicts that and we don't really have any other reference points this year.

I don't think its an unreasonable argument that although Yates is less explosive, his better decision making and game management would allow us to move the ball down field effectively and would likely slow the game down, allowing the defense more rest and preventing Pitt and Virginia from getting so many opportunities.

 

[WreckinGT]

Except you are presenting a choice that we have no reason to believe we have. We aren't winning with a less talented QB just because he takes care of the ball. The only loss that you can really even start to pin on turnovers this year was the NIU game but even then it was more general offensive ineffectiveness than turnovers. We were even with them that game.

Against Clemson we didn't turn it over (until the last play of the game).
Against Pitt, the two turnovers didn't help but we couldn't stop them nor could we establish a running game. Just hanging on to the ball wasn't going to win that game certainly if it came at the price of less production from the QB position.
Against UVA the turnover effectively was little different than a stalled drive and a good punt. We got the ball at our 25 and gave it back to them at their 18. But somehow if we just picked up one first down, then got stopped, and had a punt inside the 20 people would think it was much less hurtful than what we got.

QB play this year is not the biggest factor of our losses except maybe the NIU game, and potentially the Clemson game because the other phases did as well as could be reasonably expected.

In general, turnovers are more punishing if you have a good defense/special teams because field position can be a better tool and so the relative value of a punt vs a turnover is higher. With our current team the way it is people vastly overrate just holding onto the ball as if punting gives us points.

I would somewhat disagree on the UVA game. Before the INT we had three scoring drives and we were marching down for another scoring drive. The offense was humming. We had the lead. Momentum was on our side. The INT happens and then we punt on four of our next 5 drives, with none of those drives going over 5 plays. The only drive we scored on in that time frame was Gibbs busting his long run. Sims during that stretch was 6-12 for 34 yards after going 9-14 for 139 yards in the 4 drives before the INT. I don't know how much was momentum, vs good adjustments by UVA but its hard to argue that the game didn't change drastically after the INT.

 

[BonafideJacket]

You know what else those 4 have in common? None had over 75 attempts as a college QB during their career. Nice try...

Not a shot at you or Sims, just trying to show what a poor metric passer rating is to base any conclusions on. There's a reason no one really uses it at the college level and the NFL is steadily moving away from it in favor of newer metrics. It also doesn't account for the changing nature of the game. For instance, even accounting for small sample size, the only two players in the top 30 that pre-date 2000 are Danny Wuerffel at 24 and Ty Detmer at 29. Peyton Manning is ranked #150 for his career. Meanwhile, Aaron Murray is #43, Tebow is #10, somebody named Logan Woodside is #27.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Not a shot at you or Sims, just trying to show what a poor metric passer rating is to base any conclusions on. There's a reason no one really uses it at the college level and the NFL is steadily moving away from it in favor of newer metrics. It also doesn't account for the changing nature of the game. For instance, the only two players in the top 30 that pre-date 2000 are Danny Wuerffel at 24 and Ty Detmer at 29. Peyton Manning is ranked #150 for his career. Meanwhile, Aaron Murray is #43, Tebow is #10, somebody named Logan Woodside is #27.

Would help if you didn't use guys with minimal sample sizes as your "gotcha"

While the metric is debatable, it gets more right than it gets wrong.

 

[GoldZ]

When it comes to rating QBs, to me it's almost all about accuracy. If you are accurate it greatly diminishes the need for the oft mentioned decision making. It also covers for the most part, any other shortcomings, other than fumbling when running. It's a lot like the golf saying: Drive for show and Putt for dough. Zip and arm strength are the Drive, and accuracy is the Putt. Give me a guy who can sling it 40 yards accurately over a guy who can sling it 60 yards sort of accurately, any day and all day. It's even more important on the short-mid routes. Think Goose or Dewberry vs Bilbo (who could throw it 60 yards...... on his knees).

 

[UgaBlows]

Jesus people! Sims is the least of this teams problems, the kid is playing great and is going to even better his junior and senior years

 

[iceeater1969]

When it comes to rating QBs, to me it's almost all about accuracy. If you are accurate it greatly diminishes the need for the oft mentioned decision making. It also covers for the most part, any other shortcomings, other than fumbling when running. It's a lot like the golf saying: Drive for show and Putt for dough. Zip and arm strength are the Drive, and accuracy is the Putt. Give me a guy who can sling it 40 yards accurately over a guy who can sling it 60 yards sort of accurately, any day and all day. It's even more important on the short-mid routes. Think Goose or Dewberry vs Bilbo (who could throw it 60 yards...... on his knees).

Great point. Marc Reich said same thing about accuracy. Navy pointed this out earlier in this thread. Has Sims gotten more accurate & and can he become accurate enough to make himself as "the one". Imo, gt will never have enough team depth to play at a level to fill bds. With a top qb - the one- we can win all the eady games, most all of the tough games ,and be credible against the mega power 5. We must get $$ coming in at a high level or get magic debt forgiveness.

Back to specific - accuracy. I was at the game N ILL - sims went insanely inaccurate -- bouncing balls to wide open recievers. Ladt year he seemed to have a cannon and no touch. Is it possible we are watching Sims learn to make the throws are needed to be a complete qb.
Maybe he can quickly get more accurate. Like "the one" he already can run like a deer and throw the ball a long way. If he is not capable of getting accurate, we sure need to quickly find that out.

 

[alagold]

If we can run the ball with our backs,we may be better with Yates.The ints are killing us.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Has Sims gotten more accurate & and can he become accurate enough to make himself as "the one".

Yes.

2020 completion % 54.9%
2021 completion % 61.8%

 

[iceeater1969]

If we can run the ball with our backs,we may be better with Yates.The ints are killing us.

All is moot if defense is swiss cheese. We could consider making the punt return sqaud non scholarship. Felt sorry for the defense.

But assuming they get a pulse, the QB called rrunwill be a key as we go more run heavy.
On the first run by mason , if

Sims way faster than Yates and is a threat to go all the way. This keepts the safties back.

I Love Yates passing accuracy verses Sims. I hope we find a way to get him quality pt.

U got a good point.
Coaches call.

 

[BuzzStone]

All is moot if defense is swiss cheese. We could consider making the punt return sqaud non scholarship. Felt sorry for the defense.

But assuming they get a pulse, the QB called rrunwill be a key as we go more run heavy.
On the first run by mason , if

Sims way faster than Yates and is a threat to go all the way. This keepts the safties back.

I Love Yates passing accuracy verses Sims. I hope we find a way to get him quality pt.

U got a good point.
Coaches call.

Running the ball has to help our defense. We take more time off the clock and give them a bit of rest.

Smith is a beast as a back. with him and mason being hard runners and Gibbs with the explosiveness we have to run the ball.