UNCheat

[collegeballfan]

Why is UNC still a member of the AAU after admitting to providing grades, credits, and degrees to students who did absolutely no course work(in those classes)?

Great question! The AAU kicked Nebraska out, do not remember why, and allowing UNC to remain in the AAU will tarnish that organization.

 

[Skeptic]

I'll make a statement. You can choose to trust me or not, I don't care. I lead a major organization in a major (as in major) US corporation. I'm not going to name us because I am not representing my company in this statement. This is me, personally, as a senior leader in that organization. I will never, ever, hire a graduate of the University of North Carolina again due to their lack of integrity and clear unethical behavior in this matter. I can no longer trust the academic credentials of that university since they have admitted that any student may have taken those courses.

Done, dusted. I'll retire in ten or fifteen years. But don't expect to see any UNC grads hired in our division until I'm gone. Reputation tarnished in pursuit of championships.

That is beyond silly and sub-juvenile. What the athletes got or didn't get had nothing to do with the student enrollment at a school with a top faculty, top endowment, widely regarded as a research institution, and still despite the yahoo legislature struggling to keep its costs competitive. I have hired many UNC grads and almost, almost, without exception they were top performers and great people. Beyond that they were critical thinkers. If you report to a board of directors, I see why you don't want to name your company. Take a brisk, cold shower and move on.

 

[Skeptic]

I'm in mid managmanagement for a Fortune 15 company. I will never hire a UNC grad again.

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Ditto to 85Escape. That's some pretty juvenile foot-stomping for such purportedly high management. Next, set your hair on fire. One of the great rules of management is that when you write such an intemperate memo as the two cited, sit on it overnight. You'll be surprised how often you tear it up and hope nobody saw it. We need to cool it a bit and remember, shamefully, that one of the great college liars of all time coach at dear old Georgia Tech. Then Notre Dame nailed him. But I suppose no GT graduates now will be hired either.

 

[Skeptic]

OK, so what action can we take other that b!tch?

Well, you have seen a couple of reactions that might show you what action you don't want to take.

 

[lauraee]

Ditto to 85Escape. That's some pretty juvenile foot-stomping for such purportedly high management. Next, set your hair on fire. One of the great rules of management is that when you write such an intemperate memo as the two cited, sit on it overnight. You'll be surprised how often you tear it up and hope nobody saw it. We need to cool it a bit and remember, shamefully, that one of the great college liars of all time coach at dear old Georgia Tech. Then Notre Dame nailed him. But I suppose no GT graduates now will be hired either.

Sorry but oleary comparison just doesn't work, fake classes fake degrees. Have to wonder what others programs at uncheats had something like this going on. Communications? Think a lot of their degree programs might need further scrutiny.

 

[RonJohn]

That is beyond silly and sub-juvenile. What the athletes got or didn't get had nothing to do with the student enrollment at a school with a top faculty, top endowment, widely regarded as a research institution, and still despite the yahoo legislature struggling to keep its costs competitive. I have hired many UNC grads and almost, almost, without exception they were top performers and great people. Beyond that they were critical thinkers. If you report to a board of directors, I see why you don't want to name your company. Take a brisk, cold shower and move on.

This was the University, not athletics. That is exactly what UNC and UNC athletics said. UNC offered fake classes. Students athlete and non athlete got credit toward their degrees without doing any work or even attending class. This does indicate academic problems at the school. For almost twenty years they awarded fake diplomas. Either no one in the academic adminstration knew that they awarded fake diplomas or they were complicit. Either way i don't believe that is in line with standard procedure at actual research universities.

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[Skeptic]

This was the University, not athletics. That is exactly what UNC and UNC athletics said. UNC offered fake classes. Students athlete and non athlete got credit toward their degrees without doing any work or even attending class. This does indicate academic problems at the school. For almost twenty years they awarded fake diplomas. Either no one in the academic adminstration knew that they awarded fake diplomas or they were complicit. Either way i don't believe that is in line with standard procedure at actual research universities.

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Would not defend it for a second. Never have. But to go on a rant and say no graduate will ever be hired again at your company is, well, ranting. Destroying the village to save it so to speak. We might be surprised at how few undergraduate students at major universities ever attend a major athletic event.

 

[Skeptic]

Sorry but oleary comparison just doesn't work, fake classes fake degrees. Have to wonder what others programs at uncheats had something like this going on. Communications? Think a lot of their degree programs might need further scrutiny.

Sorry, just picking at you, but: you seem to prefer fake classes, which students don't tale, to phony degrees, which students don't earn. If there is a distinction I fail to see it.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

I would love for GT to rejoin the SEC sometime in the future.

Freaking A, but afraid Dodd cut our own throats.

Funny how some were asking if UL should be thrown out of ACC - hah!

And others ridiculing SEC.

B S.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

OK, so what action can we take other that b!tch?

GET THE SCUMBAG lil girl swofford THE HECK OUT OF THE ACC. The scumbag attended a NCAA investigation meeting with UNC. He has totally f'd up the n.d. situation. So first, hire a competent commish.

Wishing, but hard to get agreement, that all of uncheats OOC opponents cancel contracts with them. Then get all ACC members to not show up to play them.

F em up.

 

[lauraee]

Sorry, just picking at you, but: you seem to prefer fake classes, which students don't tale, to phony degrees, which students don't earn. If there is a distinction I fail to see it.

? No I don't prefer fake classes or phony degrees given by supposed academic universities. I prefer students attend actual real classes & earn genuine degrees, which is what tech offers & gives.

 

[AE 87]

This was the University, not athletics. That is exactly what UNC and UNC athletics said. UNC offered fake classes. Students athlete and non athlete got credit toward their degrees without doing any work or even attending class. This does indicate academic problems at the school. For almost twenty years they awarded fake diplomas. Either no one in the academic adminstration knew that they awarded fake diplomas or they were complicit. Either way i don't believe that is in line with standard procedure at actual research universities.

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Do you contest the claims that the classes weren't publicized/listed like normal classes and that the athlete academic advisers knew of them but others didn't? I don't know one way or the other, but if true, those claims suggest that it was also an athletics issue.

 

[RonJohn]

Would not defend it for a second. Never have. But to go on a rant and say no graduate will ever be hired again at your company is, well, ranting. Destroying the village to save it so to speak. We might be surprised at how few undergraduate students at major universities ever attend a major athletic event.

I would question the value of ANY degree from UNC. The University admitted that they had an entire department that was purely bogus for almost 20 years. How does the administration not know that students don't go to class or do any work in the class? If the administration doesn't pay enough attention to understand that this was major academic fraud, how can you be certain that in other departments that they are actually paying attention. The school has proven that fraudulent classes can go undetected for decades. How can you be certain that classes for respected majors are not fraudulent, or at least inferior? Because the school that couldn't detect an entire FRAUDULENT department says so? You might be so trusting, but to me if someone commits fraud against me, they will have to go overboard to prove that I should do business with them again.

As to the attending an athletic event, I'm sure that the majority of students don't attend. However, rhe school administration was complicit in telling the NCAA that the issue should be an accreditation issue. If the school is asking for the fallout to not be athletic, but academic and accreditation, then they are asking for employers to look at the quality of their degrees with academic fraud in mind.

 

[AE 87]

I would question the value of ANY degree from UNC. The University admitted that they had an entire department that was purely bogus for almost 20 years. How does the administration not know that students don't go to class or do any work in the class? If the administration doesn't pay enough attention to understand that this was major academic fraud, how can you be certain that in other departments that they are actually paying attention. The school has proven that fraudulent classes can go undetected for decades. How can you be certain that classes for respected majors are not fraudulent, or at least inferior? Because the school that couldn't detect an entire FRAUDULENT department says so? You might be so trusting, but to me if someone commits fraud against me, they will have to go overboard to prove that I should do business with them again.

As to the attending an athletic event, I'm sure that the majority of students don't attend. However, rhe school administration was complicit in telling the NCAA that the issue should be an accreditation issue. If the school is asking for the fallout to not be athletic, but academic and accreditation, then they are asking for employers to look at the quality of their degrees with academic fraud in mind.

I think most employers recognize the obvious that this was sham to keep athletes qualified, and that it didn't affect most majors.

 

[RonJohn]

I think most employers recognize the obvious that this was sham to keep athletes qualified, and that it didn't affect most majors.

If a university is willing to commit academic fraud to help athletics, is it not a fair question to ask: If they would commit academic fraud to protect a $3billion school budget? If they would commit academic fraud to protect a $1billion research budget? If they would commit academic fraud to boot university rankings? If they would commit academic fraud to keep students keep federal funding?

I don't believe that the majority of students at UNC are skating through. But if you meet a UNC grad who was in school during those years, how do you know if their degree was affected or not? If you are hiring a recent grad, how do you know that UNC isn't continuing fraudulent practices? Reputation? SACS accreditation?(They were SACS accredited the entire time) Should it be an prospective employers responsibility to audit every credit hour that a recent grad received?

 

[AE 87]

If a university is willing to commit academic fraud to help athletics, is it not a fair question to ask: If they would commit academic fraud to protect a $3billion school budget? If they would commit academic fraud to protect a $1billion research budget? If they would commit academic fraud to boot university rankings? If they would commit academic fraud to keep students keep federal funding?

I don't believe that the majority of students at UNC are skating through. But if you meet a UNC grad who was in school during those years, how do you know if their degree was affected or not? If you are hiring a recent grad, how do you know that UNC isn't continuing fraudulent practices? Reputation? SACS accreditation?(They were SACS accredited the entire time) Should it be an prospective employers responsibility to audit every credit hour that a recent grad received?

I understood your post. I agree that it's reasonable. I just disagree that most employers would follow that logic.

In a previous post, I mentioned two claims that I read somewhere. Do you contest them, knowing that they are not true? Do you accept them but don't agree that they would raise an NCAA issue? Or are you just unfamiliar with the claims? If they were true, would they affect your view?

 

[RonJohn]

I understood your post. I agree that it's reasonable. I just disagree that most employers would follow that logic.

In a previous post, I mentioned two claims that I read somewhere. Do you contest them, knowing that they are not true? Do you accept them but don't agree that they would raise an NCAA issue? Or are you just unfamiliar with the claims? If they were true, would they affect your view?

Not really. I think having fraudulent classes from an entirely fraudulent department not publicly listed would indicate more a lack of control from the school administration. Class credit did show up on transcripts. They did get credit for the classes when they petitioned for a degree. I would think that a school would pay extra attention to any class that carries credit, but isn't publicly listed. To me, that would point more to the academic administration being complicit with fraud. As to athletic academic advisers sending athletes to the classes, I think it is probably very common for advisers to send players to classes that carry credit towards a degree and are historically easy. I think many non-athlete students would try to get into classes that are easy grades if they count toward their degree. The difference at UNC was that the classes themselves were shams. Just because athletic advisers suggested these classes doesn't mean that they knew they were fraudulent.

 

[AE 87]

Not really. I think having fraudulent classes from an entirely fraudulent department not publicly listed would indicate more a lack of control from the school administration. Class credit did show up on transcripts. They did get credit for the classes when they petitioned for a degree. I would think that a school would pay extra attention to any class that carries credit, but isn't publicly listed. To me, that would point more to the academic administration being complicit with fraud. As to athletic academic advisers sending athletes to the classes, I think it is probably very common for advisers to send players to classes that carry credit towards a degree and are historically easy. I think many non-athlete students would try to get into classes that are easy grades if they count toward their degree. The difference at UNC was that the classes themselves were shams. Just because athletic advisers suggested these classes doesn't mean that they knew they were fraudulent.

Yeah, this is where we disagree.

 

[Skeptic]

I would question the value of ANY degree from UNC. The University admitted that they had an entire department that was purely bogus for almost 20 years. How does the administration not know that students don't go to class or do any work in the class? If the administration doesn't pay enough attention to understand that this was major academic fraud, how can you be certain that in other departments that they are actually paying attention. The school has proven that fraudulent classes can go undetected for decades. How can you be certain that classes for respected majors are not fraudulent, or at least inferior? Because the school that couldn't detect an entire FRAUDULENT department says so? You might be so trusting, but to me if someone commits fraud against me, they will have to go overboard to prove that I should do business with them again.

As to the attending an athletic event, I'm sure that the majority of students don't attend. However, rhe school administration was complicit in telling the NCAA that the issue should be an accreditation issue. If the school is asking for the fallout to not be athletic, but academic and accreditation, then they are asking for employers to look at the quality of their degrees with academic fraud in mind.

Well, okay. If one taints all, okay. But consider ... and ten let's call it a day.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndga/pr/former-georgia-tech-employees-charged-fraud

 

[RonJohn]

Well, okay. If one taints all, okay. But consider ... and ten let's call it a day.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndga/pr/former-georgia-tech-employees-charged-fraud

What part of stealing money is connected to academic fraud? UNC committed ACADEMIC fraud, and has admitted it. You posted an article about employees of GTRI stealing money and using their position to funnel business from GTRI to their own business. What about that story even smells if bogus degrees obtained by GT students?