Thoughts going into UVA week

[OldJacketFan]

Dude let it go

When you apologize for the crude, unwarranted, childish comment I will let it go.

 

[Eli]

Flopped AT Virginia? He allowed 29, 27, and 28 points in 2003, 2005, and 2007. If that's your definition of "flopping" lol, I got some news for you: those are middle of the pack numbers, and this is GT. If that was his floor, average, we ought to be ecstatic.

Digging down into those games, 14 points came off of defensive scores, so he allowed 70 points across 3 games, for an average of 23.333 a game. And in the high game (29 points allowed) THREE UVA drives started at the GT 45 or better due to turnovers.

Please, you guys, tell me when Tech was consistently better than that in living memory? Enlighten me PLEASE since that's so horrible.

Yeah we just gave up 28 points to Pitt and that has been our best defensive performance all year... Some people are delusional

 

[00Burdell]

Yeah we just gave up 28 points to Pitt and that has been our best defensive performance all year...

What? Best defensive performance all year? By what measure - points? Nope; yards per play? Nope; total yards? Nope. Rushing yardage surrendered? Nope; Passing yards given up? Nope; Yards per play? Nope.

Ok. I give up. How was the Pitt game our best defensive performance all year?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What? Best defensive performance all year? By what measure - points? Nope; yards per play? Nope; total yards? Nope. Rushing yardage surrendered? Nope; Passing yards given up? Nope; Yards per play? Nope.

Ok. I give up. How was the Pitt game our best defensive performance all year?

He be trollin'

 

[00Burdell]

He be trollin'

Well that would explain the sharp, shiny thing sticking out of my lower lip.

 

[vamosjackets]

What? Best defensive performance all year? By what measure - points? Nope; yards per play? Nope; total yards? Nope. Rushing yardage surrendered? Nope; Passing yards given up? Nope; Yards per play? Nope.

Ok. I give up. How was the Pitt game our best defensive performance all year?

Turnovers. Points off turnovers. But, I think he was using hyperbole. In truth, VT was our best defensive performance all year, BY FAR ... it was really the lone good performance we've had all year ... and it surprised me, in a good way.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

I maintain that Roof's scheme asks our undermanned guys to win one on one battles at the LOS and in coverage. This is the complete opposite of scheming around your talent.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Well that would explain the sharp, shiny thing sticking out of my lower lip.

its in the manner of addressing some issue where one is more interested in making vague generalizations about other posters, use of "lol" to suggest sarcasm and then in the all capital letters format, and suggesting others are "delusional." Vamos calls it hyperbole but I call it trollin'.

 

[thwgjacket]

I don't understand the question (not trying to be a smart alec). Is there something you're referring to in my first post? If so, can you point that out?

Sorry, I guess I posted in the wrong thread.

 

[stevo0718]

Since Tenuta:

21 or less: 37 (in 88 games)

30 or more: 27 (in 88 games)

Or are you under the impression that he's been our D coordinator since 2008?

This is a good stat, but not for the <21 for the more than 30, because 37 games in 6 years is also 6+ games a year of under 21 points. You just framed it to look substantially worse.

Football has changed since Tenuta was coaching at GT, basically every offensive record has been rewritten since 2007. I think his defenses had the same problems we have now. Big cushions, long completions, third down conversions. This year our defense is NOT good, I'm not arguing that. But back then offenses were more conventional, dropping back in prostyle, I formations. Now it's all spread, and hurry up. All defenses have worse stats than the D's of old.

I am a believer in the Jimmies and the Joes, and Tenuta had better ones. Look how many NFL starters were on those teams Henderson, Anaoi, Daryl Smith, Guyton, Philip Wheeler, James Butler, Landry to name a few. And you can give him credit for recruiting them.

For as long as I can remember for our D, third and long is right where they want us. Every game every year I feel worse about 3rd and 11 than 3rd and 3.

We have to get an edge defensive lineman who can hold his own, and we would see a substantial improvement. I think our lbs and dbs are adequate, they are playing the scheme we have to play. And right now we are playing death by 1000 cuts as opposed to getting knocked out with haymakers.

The best we can hope for on D is 2 incompletions in a series to force a punt.

 

[daBuzz]

That's simply not true.

Games we held teams to 21 or less: 43! (6+ a year)

Games we allowed 30 or more: 14 (2 and change a year).

You anti-Tenuta folks are revisionist masters.

Hey, we had some great games with Tenuta as our DC. But let's not forget that he was the DC for the 51-7 debacle versus UGA. And Matt Ryan would still be completing passes to the small, slow, white kid if Tenuta were was coaching against him because one thing Tenuta doesn't do well....adjust.

 

[vamosjackets]

This is a good stat, but not for the <21 for the more than 30, because 37 games in 6 years is also 6+ games a year of under 21 points. You just framed it to look substantially worse.

Football has changed since Tenuta was coaching at GT, basically every offensive record has been rewritten since 2007. I think his defenses had the same problems we have now. Big cushions, long completions, third down conversions. This year our defense is NOT good, I'm not arguing that. But back then offenses were more conventional, dropping back in prostyle, I formations. Now it's all spread, and hurry up. All defenses have worse stats than the D's of old.

I am a believer in the Jimmies and the Joes, and Tenuta had better ones. Look how many NFL starters were on those teams Henderson, Anaoi, Daryl Smith, Guyton, Philip Wheeler, James Butler, Landry to name a few. And you can give him credit for recruiting them.

For as long as I can remember for our D, third and long is right where they want us. Every game every year I feel worse about 3rd and 11 than 3rd and 3.

We have to get an edge defensive lineman who can hold his own, and we would see a substantial improvement. I think our lbs and dbs are adequate, they are playing the scheme we have to play. And right now we are playing death by 1000 cuts as opposed to getting knocked out with haymakers.

The best we can hope for on D is 2 incompletions in a series to force a punt.

Look at the comparative stats then. So, you're saying offenses were worse back then, then why did most of the CFB defenses in the nation do worse than GT's with Tenuta (and most of those teams had better "Jimmies" than we did according to the recruitniks)?

Look at Tenuta's D now at UVA... he's still doing better than most of the CFB defenses in the nation, and I doubt he has much better "Joes" than all the other programs out there doing worse.

You're simply misremembering him. The stats don't forget.

 

[vamosjackets]

Hey, we had some great games with Tenuta as our DC. But let's not forget that he was the DC for the 51-7 debacle versus UGA. And Matt Ryan would still be completing passes to the small, slow, white kid if Tenuta were was coaching against him because one thing Tenuta doesn't do well....adjust.

Come on man. GEEEEZZ. 51-7 was in our first year with him as DC. That's like saying Paul Johnson sucks because look at how he did against Garner Webb in 2008!! How did he do against ugag the other years??? Matt Ryan put up 24 freakin' points. 24!!!! How many points did Matt Ryan put up against the rest of CFB that year and how many would he have put up against the rest of the GT defenses we had before or since??? Maybe you were being sarcastic, and I should get the hook out of my mouth now. #buttonpushed

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Come on man. GEEEEZZ. 51-7 was in our first year with him as DC. That's like saying Paul Johnson sucks because look at how he did against Garner Webb in 2008!! How did he do against ugag the other years??? Matt Ryan put up 24 freakin' points. 24!!!! How many points did Matt Ryan put up against the rest of CFB that year and how many would he have put up against the rest of the GT defenses we had before or since??? Maybe you were being sarcastic, and I should get the hook out of my mouth now. #buttonpushed

Tenuta made Phillip Rivers look like a middle school qb.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Sorry, man. I never liked him. The way he flopped every year at Charlottesville turned me off to him forever. I will say though that I liked his style, and I wish Roof would play so aggressively. But he let me down way too many times.

I appreciate this discussion. It reminds me to always keep examining my opinions. I looked at the 3 games in Charlottesville when Tenuta was coaching the defense. I did this hurriedly because I am lazy and have other things to do. Here is what I saw skimming over the drive charts. Tech's offense was perfectly dreadful at times and put the defense in terrible positions. Tech's special team play was also pretty dreadful at times. On the other side of it, Tenuta's defense still had a kind of feast or famine feel to it, anecdotally speaking. There were goal line stands that led to forcing field goals out of the other team and there were some three and outs. Other times, however, the other team sliced through the defense like a knife through hot butter, like when Virginia drove the length of the field in 1:39. Then there were the plays that kind of went like this:

3rd and 2 give up a ten yard play.
3rd and 6 give up a 19 yard play.
2nd and 9 give up a 22 yard play.
3rd and 5 give up an 8 yard play.
3rd and 5 give up a 23 yard play.
3rd and 1 give up a 10 yard touchdown.
2nd and 7 give up a 20 yard play.
3rd and 8 give up a 21 yard touchdown. etc. etc.

So, would I love to have Tenuta's defense right now? You bet I would! And I hope we play a lot like his defenses against Virginia Saturday. But given the talent we hope to recruit at Tech I am hoping that we can play better than that in the future. But I do wonder how my perception of Tenuta might be different if the offense and special teams at the time had not put the spotlight on the defensive breakdowns, if you know what I mean.

 

[daBuzz]

Come on man. GEEEEZZ. 51-7 was in our first year with him as DC. That's like saying Paul Johnson sucks because look at how he did against Garner Webb in 2008!! How did he do against ugag the other years??? Matt Ryan put up 24 freakin' points. 24!!!! How many points did Matt Ryan put up against the rest of CFB that year and how many would he have put up against the rest of the GT defenses we had before or since??? Maybe you were being sarcastic, and I should get the hook out of my mouth now. #buttonpushed

No I wasn't being sarcastic. I like Jon Tenuta a lot. I think he was the best DC we've had at Tech in a long time. But I'm also not blind to his faults as you apparently are. With his system, it was pretty much feast or famine. When the blitz was getting to people, we made them look bad. When they beat the blitz, they made us look bad.

For instance, that 24 points......24!!!..... that Boston College scored: wanna know what the headline on ESPN is for that game?
Ryan throws for career-high 435 yards as BC sinks Ga. Tech .
That's taken directly from ESPN.COM. http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=272580059 .
So, to answer your question, how did Matt Ryan do against the rest of the teams that year?
GT 24 points 435 yards passing
Army 37 points 356 yards passing
UMass 24 points 204 yards passing
WF 28 points 408 yards passing
NC State 37 points 142 yards passing
Bowling Green 55 points 352 yards passing
Notre Dame 27 points 291 yards passing
VT 14 points 285 yards passing
FSU 17 points 415 yards passing
Maryland 35 points 421 yards passing
Clemson 20 points 315 yards passing
Miami 28 points 369 yards passing
VT (ACCCG) 16 points 305 yards passing
Mich State 24 points 249 yards passing

So, Matt Ryan had his best day in his entire college career versus Jon Tenuta's defense. And since we can't count 51-7 apparently, because it was his first year (despite the fact that it was game #11 by that time), can we count this game? Because that was the final year of Tenuta as DC.

Again, I like the guy. I love aggressive defenses. But I'm also a realist who can see the guy's warts along with his successes.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

No I wasn't being sarcastic. I like Jon Tenuta a lot. I think he was the best DC we've had at Tech in a long time. But I'm also not blind to his faults as you apparently are. With his system, it was pretty much feast or famine. When the blitz was getting to people, we made them look bad. When they beat the blitz, they made us look bad.

For instance, that 24 points......24!!!..... that Boston College scored: wanna know what the headline on ESPN is for that game?
Ryan throws for career-high 435 yards as BC sinks Ga. Tech .
That's taken directly from ESPN.COM. http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=272580059 .
So, to answer your question, how did Matt Ryan do against the rest of the teams that year?
GT 24 points 435 yards passing
Army 37 points 356 yards passing
UMass 24 points 204 yards passing
WF 28 points 408 yards passing
NC State 37 points 142 yards passing
Bowling Green 55 points 352 yards passing
Notre Dame 27 points 291 yards passing
VT 14 points 285 yards passing
FSU 17 points 415 yards passing
Maryland 35 points 421 yards passing
Clemson 20 points 315 yards passing
Miami 28 points 369 yards passing
VT (ACCCG) 16 points 305 yards passing
Mich State 24 points 249 yards passing

So, Matt Ryan had his best day in his entire college career versus Jon Tenuta's defense. And since we can't count 51-7 apparently, because it was his first year (despite the fact that it was game #11 by that time), can we count this game? Because that was the final year of Tenuta as DC.

Again, I like the guy. I love aggressive defenses. But I'm also a realist who can see the guy's warts along with his successes.

Didn't VT's qb pick us apart in a borrowed jersey on national tv? Feast or famine is what I remember, too. Over time, the "feasts" stick out in my memory.


"Glennon, who wore a replacement jersey provided by the home team when his own disappeared before the game, threw two long touchdown passes and ran for another score. He made his second straight start in place of freshman Tyrod Taylor, who was still hindered by a sprained ankle.

Glennon lost the starting job after the second game but made a strong bid to keep it this time, completing 22-of-32 for 296 yards, including a 40-yard touchdown pass to Justin Harper and a 71-yarder to Josh Morgan."


Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/College/...ut-Georgia-Tech-27-3.html#QbECqWLv0RKu77MC.99

 

[Wrecking Ball]

Yards. Do. Not. Matter.

I only use points a game as a measure.

If yards mattered we would have won against Duke. Matt Ryan threw for a ton of yards and got just 24 points. If we'd scored just 4 TDs we win that game.

@Northeast Stinger you're absolutely right that the Spotlight was on the D in those years because people knew we wouldn't score once more so we needed one more stop. That's still not rational. I remember losing to NC State 17-14 when Calvin dropped a pass in the end zone that was picked and people were like "if we had just stopped NC State in the 4th Q we win 14-10! Tenuta sucks!"

I mean.... What?! How about we score more than 14? Any time you hold the other team to that low a score you're doing something right.

Another thing to note is that in Tenutas era we had way more drives per game. I think he held the other teams to pretty small points per drive.

 

[vamosjackets]

No I wasn't being sarcastic. I like Jon Tenuta a lot. I think he was the best DC we've had at Tech in a long time. But I'm also not blind to his faults as you apparently are. With his system, it was pretty much feast or famine. When the blitz was getting to people, we made them look bad. When they beat the blitz, they made us look bad.

For instance, that 24 points......24!!!..... that Boston College scored: wanna know what the headline on ESPN is for that game?
Ryan throws for career-high 435 yards as BC sinks Ga. Tech .
That's taken directly from ESPN.COM. http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=272580059 .
So, to answer your question, how did Matt Ryan do against the rest of the teams that year?
GT 24 points 435 yards passing
Army 37 points 356 yards passing
UMass 24 points 204 yards passing
WF 28 points 408 yards passing
NC State 37 points 142 yards passing
Bowling Green 55 points 352 yards passing
Notre Dame 27 points 291 yards passing
VT 14 points 285 yards passing
FSU 17 points 415 yards passing
Maryland 35 points 421 yards passing
Clemson 20 points 315 yards passing
Miami 28 points 369 yards passing
VT (ACCCG) 16 points 305 yards passing
Mich State 24 points 249 yards passing

So, Matt Ryan had his best day in his entire college career versus Jon Tenuta's defense. And since we can't count 51-7 apparently, because it was his first year (despite the fact that it was game #11 by that time), can we count this game? Because that was the final year of Tenuta as DC.

Again, I like the guy. I love aggressive defenses. But I'm also a realist who can see the guy's warts along with his successes.

I'm sorry for the tone of my last post, if it was a little emotionally over the top.
On to the discussion, if we still care to debate...
My biggest question for you is: Who's defense is not "feast or famine"?

And, look only FSU, VT, and Clemson held Matt Ryan and the BC offense to fewer points than Tenuta... so, my point feels precisely proven. And, one of those TD's he had against us was due to an obviously horrible PI call agasint Gary Guyton ... now I know penalties and such may tend to balance out, but for this particular discussion of the stats for one game, that is a relevant event. Not to mention the holding that went on in that game that their players "confessed" to being coached to do afterward. How'd we do against the run in that game BTW??? We were often top 10 against the run in the nation. That's Paul Johnson type stats, except for defense. That's what can make GT have a great unit.

I'm not afraid to admit his flaws. Let's admit Paul Johnson's flaws too, and Bear Bryant's and Bobby Dodd's too while we're at it. And, then let's look at the bottom line ... results.

 

[takethepoints]

My take on Tenuta is the same as my take on Jerry Glanville: you live by the blitz, you die by the blitz.

I think that's why there were so many big plays against his Ds while he was here. Against an O that didn't have either the scheme and/or the personnel to exploit the risks he took, his Ds were quite successful. Against those who did, well …

This year I think they'll be a bit more successful in terms of prep. Problem = we're a lot better on O this year and we are rolling.