This team will surprise some

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,715
I think Pea answered the Miller/Golden question well and my answer would have been the same.

I'd take Miller as a PG any day. Golden wasn't and never was a PG. He was a small SG. I'd have been happy with both of them in the backcourt.

I'd love to see the Tadric I saw in HS, but that hasn't happened yet and it needs to happen this year. Some of the whispers coming out of the practice sessions don't have me enthused that we are going to see it.

Heath can be a PG somewhat similar to Miller. Take care of the ball, pass, score it a little. I do not think he will ever be a double digit scorer- that doesn't seem like him at all.
 

coolhaji33

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
411
whoa your roll, dude

you're the one putting others to the test and coming out with a bold prediction of a major jump in output ... if anyone is coming off as pompous, well, take a step back

I reckon most here don't know you beyond your contribution to this forum ... so don't take it personally if they disagree with your prediction

If you're right about what we see from these guys this year, you'll be proven right ... until then, we'll see
Slow your roll...re-read the "tone" and nonchalant disrespect...
Through his first couple of years, Tadric has shown he can travel, drop passes, charge, miss wide open jumpers, dunk once in a while and generally get abused on the defensive end of the court. I've yet to see him stop on a dime except when he's watching his man dribble by him for a layup. His pull ups generally lead to air balls or similarly misguided missiles. Can he improve? I hope so. I wouldn't bet the farm on him being in top 20 in ACC scoring next year.

Comparing Moe Miller and Trae Golden is sort of like asking whether the flu or pneumonia is better. Both were mediocre at best and associated with some historically pathetic squads. (Miller was on three losing teams and the 2010 squad that had Favors, Laval & Shump. Golden was a Done-and-one and "led" us to losing record overall and 6-12 in the conference)
...after reading that is there a hint of arrogance and condescension.How about this one...
o_O

Again.

I wish I could let these claims slide off my shoulders but they are just too radical to pass up.

If Jax gets up to 17 ppg + he would be the highest scorer ppg wise for this program going back to at least 08-09. The last 5 guys to score more than 15 a game:

MGH 16.7 15-16 (SR)
Adam Smith 15.0 15-16(SR)
Shump 17 10-11 (Jr)
Clinch 15.5 08-09 (sr)
Gani 15.1 08-09 (so)

So Tadric, who shoots 32% from the floor overall and 21% from deep while averaging less than 2 FTs per game is going to AT LEAST triple his career output, ppg wise, this season?o_O:rolleyes::cautious::bored::confused::meh::wacky::vomit:

Be polite. Pass to the right.
...just the emoticons themselves lol....slow YOUR roll...I never ever get disrespectful FIRST...but God forbid you disrespect me in an area were I have few equals...and YES mstrahahan...I will undoubtedly admit my miscalculations on the performance/avgs of Q,Tad,Lammers and Heath...I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.
 

coolhaji33

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
411
I think Pea answered the Miller/Golden question well and my answer would have been the same.

I'd take Miller as a PG any day. Golden wasn't and never was a PG. He was a small SG. I'd have been happy with both of them in the backcourt.

I'd love to see the Tadric I saw in HS, but that hasn't happened yet and it needs to happen this year. Some of the whispers coming out of the practice sessions don't have me enthused that we are going to see it.

Heath can be a PG somewhat similar to Miller. Take care of the ball, pass, score it a little. I do not think he will ever be a double digit scorer- that doesn't seem like him at all.
I agree Red...on the fact that despite Goldens lack of height he had a nice offensive game inside the hash marks and would actually fit nicely with Moe.
 

Peacone36

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,332
Location
Maine
Slow your roll...re-read the "tone" and nonchalant disrespect...
...after reading that is there a hint of arrogance and condescension.How about this one...
...just the emoticons themselves lol....slow YOUR roll...I never ever get disrespectful FIRST...but God forbid you disrespect me in an area were I have few equals...and YES mstrahahan...I will undoubtedly admit my miscalculations on the performance/avgs of Q,Tad,Lammers and Heath...I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

I have no role. I have no swag. I have numbers and I watch the games. And not just GT games. Any game I can. I provided you with some history and hopefully opened your eyes to what kind of player it takes to score 15 a game, over a 31-34 game schedule while playing in the ACC. Numbers, facts, no blasphemy, no fan hood bias, no gold tinted glasses no over the top, look-at-me I claim to know every thing because I know all the players since 1985 horse ****.

Just the facts Jack
 

mstranahan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,553
Slow your roll...re-read the "tone" and nonchalant disrespect...
...after reading that is there a hint of arrogance and condescension.How about this one...
...just the emoticons themselves lol....slow YOUR roll...I never ever get disrespectful FIRST...but God forbid you disrespect me in an area were I have few equals...and YES mstrahahan...I will undoubtedly admit my miscalculations on the performance/avgs of Q,Tad,Lammers and Heath...I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.
in other words, you're happy to post personal attacks and proclaim your superior basketball talent acumen, but you won't back it up? Got it. Assumed as much.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,015
Slow your roll...re-read the "tone" and nonchalant disrespect...
...after reading that is there a hint of arrogance and condescension.How about this one...
...just the emoticons themselves lol....slow YOUR roll...I never ever get disrespectful FIRST...but God forbid you disrespect me in an area were I have few equals...and YES mstrahahan...I will undoubtedly admit my miscalculations on the performance/avgs of Q,Tad,Lammers and Heath...I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

Hey, I don't have a dog in the fight ... I don't claim competence to judge talent/ability ... just saying that from a statistics and decision-making standpoint, your predictions seem bold to say the least

However, if you read your posts remembering that people don't know you, you may see that perhaps your tone prompted their snark in response, tifwiw
 

Peacone36

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,332
Location
Maine
image.jpeg



This will be your new avatar at the end of the season
 

mstranahan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,553
FWIW, a buddy of mine coached in same league as Stonehill in the 90's. He always spoke highly of a couple of their players from the early 90s (time period I believe CoolHaji was there). Joe Cronin is the one I remember, but there were a couple of others he really liked. No clue if our guy is one of them or not, but was reminded of that when I read the post about playing at Stonehill
 

coolhaji33

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
411
Cronin graduated in 90....or 89...I played a few years after him with Bob MAcadoo's son and a big man named Chris Butler who had a cup of coffee in Europe.Cronin was a beast...6'3solid athletically...could shoot it and played hard as nails.They had a strong team with a good point guard Ed Grimski...
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,015
Cronin graduated in 90....or 89...I played a few years after him with Bob MAcadoo's son and a big man named Chris Butler who had a cup of coffee in Europe.Cronin was a beast...6'3solid athletically...could shoot it and played hard as nails.They had a strong team with a good point guard Ed Grimski...

latest
 

coolhaji33

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
411
My question to you cynics is this...what would your response to Tadric avg. 16.8ppg on 40% shooting on a .500 team sound like....how bout Q at 15.7ppg,4.7 rpg @ .400 same record...Heath at 11ppg with 5.2apg...what is the actual language you'd use to explain outputs like that...what would have to happen personally and as a team to achieve personal bests like that?Trying to figure out if you all comprehend player development,strength and conditioning,game planning to your strengths,cohesion/make up of a roster vs. Coaching style.All these things aren't tangible,don't show up in a box score and yet are integral processes to winning basketball and optimizing your talents and are all taking place right now.
 
Last edited:

coolhaji33

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
411
I'm good with that...let's agree on avgs....this is my proposition Heath 10 and 5,Lammers 13 and 9,Q 14,Tadric 16....do we have a bet?
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,009
Location
North Shore, Chicago
You all need to remember that someone on the team is going to take the shot most of the time on the offensive side of the court. We don't really have anyone who was a go-to guy still on the team. Therefore, guys who took few shots last year or the year before are going to take many more shots this year. So, that being said, 15ppg, 20ppg, 10ppg isn't unreasonable when you're the main guy shooting the ball. I see Q and Tadric as the two most likely to be looked at to score, followed by Lammers and Heath. Someone's got to try to score. I don't find the numbers to be extraordinary, except when looked at in a vacuum.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,167
Tadrick at 16.8 PPG would replace MGH as the number 8 scoring average in the ACC (4.7 PPG last year)
Q at 15.7 PPG would come in at number 14 in the ACC (5 PPG last year)
Both would be higher than Adam Smith last year at 15.0 PPG
Nothing would make me happier (well almost nothing) but color me skeptical

FWIW I do think that 4.7 rebounds for Q may be low. I actually think he rebounds better than he gets credit for.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,009
Location
North Shore, Chicago
Tadrick at 16.8 PPG would replace MGH as the number 8 scoring average in the ACC (4.7 PPG last year)
Q at 15.7 PPG would come in at number 14 in the ACC (5 PPG last year)
Both would be higher than Adam Smith last year at 15.0 PPG
Nothing would make me happier (well almost nothing) but color me skeptical

FWIW I do think that 4.7 rebounds for Q may be low. I actually think he rebounds better than he gets credit for.
Where are the points going to come from if not from them? Maybe somewhere, but much more likely to come from them.

The thing about MGH and Adam was that there were others taking shots. Other teams have many more scoring options and the ball is spread around more. This year, there will be 3/4 players scoring the majority of the points.
 

mstranahan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,553
My question to you cynics is this...what would your response to Tadric avg. 16.8ppg on 40% shooting on a .500 team sound like....how bout Q at 15.7ppg,4.7 rpg @ .400 same record...Heath at 11ppg with 5.2apg...what is the actual language you'd use to explain outputs like that...what would have to happen personally and as a team to achieve personal bests like that?

At a high level, I'd use language like impressed, surprised, and happy. I would also have to give a major tip of the cap to the kids for putting in the work and the coaching staff for significant improvement in all three kids. (The type of cross-year player improvement we haven't seen under CPH or CBG.)

On a player-by-player basis, I see it like this

Tadric: 40 % shooting wouldn't surprise me. (38.5% last year) If his FTA per min (1 FTA per 9 mins) & FTA (61%) stay the same, but his mins go up a lot (30 min per game), that would mean he's shooting roughly 7 for 19 on average. He's capable of creating his own shot, so I think he will be our go to guy when we need to put something up, but I doubt he'll hoist up that many every game. Some games, but not across the season.

Q: Last two years, he's scored 6.0 and 5.0 in 20 mins per game. In order for him to triple his scoring in roughly 50% more PT, he will need to shoot significantly more often and also improve his shooting %. Given his generally passive approach, I don't see how he'll get many more shots per minute. He's essentially a catch-and-shoot guy and he's really struggled with putting it on the floor in the past. I also don't expect a big improvement in shooting % since he's been extremely consistent across three years (37 / 34/ 36)

Heath: In two years, he's been very consistent... 1 assist for every 6.5 - 7 minutes on the court. With fewer scoring options this year, I don't see that rate improving. At 35 mpg, he could average 5 - 6 apg. Just not sure he'll get that many minutes. Scoring-wise, he's a 40% shooter who hasn't shown he can create his own shot. If his minutes double to 35, I can see him scoring 6 ppg. I think quadrupling his ppg and doubling his apg would require more minutes than I think he could expect

The biggest stretch IMO is the .500 record. I don't think that's in the realm of likelihood. I don't know a lot about most of the OOC teams (most appear to be typical pay-for-pummel fodder), so I'll guess they finish non-conf slate at 8-4 or 9-3. I'm counting UGA, Tennessee, Penn State and VCU as the most likely losses. In conference, I believe they'll finish with 2 - 4 wins. I assume they will lose in first round of ACC tourney. That puts the record somewhere between 10 - 21 and 13 - 18. Completely understand I haven't seen any of these teams play this year, but going 16-15 would really shock me this year
 
Top