The ACC will delay the start of competition for all fall sports until at least Sept. 1

chris975d

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
903
Yep. Sad. It’s what happens when you make decisions on emotion and not data. You end up being okay that a lot of your players will get CTE...but you’re not okay with not knowing if risks you’re worried about will ever actually materialize. And you’re okay with bringing tens of thousands of students back to campus. In which case those social gatherings would have a higher likelihood to infect your players anyway.

Honestly, as soon as outbreaks start occurring on campus among the general student body (and I don’t see how they don’t occur), I think most universities will close back down/move to distance learning. There’s zero way to get college aged people to listen and follow COVID protocols.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
Honestly, as soon as outbreaks start occurring on campus among the general student body (and I don’t see how they don’t occur), I think most universities will close back down/move to distance learning. There’s zero way to get college aged people to listen and follow COVID protocols.

Yep, and we should all let that sink in. They’re not okay with trying football and then canceling after a few games if they have problems. But they are okay with doing that with regular students. They want that tuition, dorm, apartment, meal plan money first.
 

stech81

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,961
Location
Woodstock Georgia
Both the B10 and PAC12 were quite smart in how they approached this. They are using valid medical reasons to postpone their seasons (note they have specifically said they are hoping to play in the Spring - that is important).
First the ACC is also using a Medical Advisory Group which I think the main guy is Dukes infectious disease specialist Dr. Cameron Wolfe who is the head. Now things could change next week. The fact is you can ask 10 doctors and get 10 answers. Fact football is not a save sport players know this and still want to play. Fact no one really knows a lot about the virus some think they do but it's too new. Fact Lawyers are always looking to sue someone for money , how many TV commercials for lawyers do you see every day on TV. To say one conference is smart is another way to say they did what you think.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
First the ACC is also using a Medical Advisory Group which I think the main guy is Dukes infectious disease specialist Dr. Cameron Wolfe who is the head. Now things could change next week. The fact is you can ask 10 doctors and get 10 answers. Fact football is not a save sport players know this and still want to play. Fact no one really knows a lot about the virus some think they do but it's too new. Fact Lawyers are always looking to sue someone for money , how many TV commercials for lawyers do you see every day on TV. To say one conference is smart is another way to say they did what you think.

If you pay attention to what ACC conference officials are saying and fans are saying, they are not the same. The conference says:
EfK6CknXoAEDfoq


Satterfield from Louisville said "What we understand is the ACC is moving forward,". Fans take that as the ACC is playing football. But if you pay attention to what Satterfield said later, "We know how things change and how fluid it is. We'd like to get something definitive, just for our mental sake.", that isn't a definite statement that the ACC is playing. I haven't seen comments that say the ACC is confident that they will be able to play, just comments that the conference is moving forward.

Sankey from the SEC said:
Can we play? I don't know. We haven't stopped trying.
My impression is that is the attitude of the SEC and ACC. They don't know if it will work out or not. They aren't ready to cancel fall football, but they aren't overly confident that it will indeed happen.
 

chris975d

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
903
If you pay attention to what ACC conference officials are saying and fans are saying, they are not the same. The conference says:
EfK6CknXoAEDfoq


Satterfield from Louisville said "What we understand is the ACC is moving forward,". Fans take that as the ACC is playing football. But if you pay attention to what Satterfield said later, "We know how things change and how fluid it is. We'd like to get something definitive, just for our mental sake.", that isn't a definite statement that the ACC is playing. I haven't seen comments that say the ACC is confident that they will be able to play, just comments that the conference is moving forward.

Sankey from the SEC said:
My impression is that is the attitude of the SEC and ACC. They don't know if it will work out or not. They aren't ready to cancel fall football, but they aren't overly confident that it will indeed happen.

I’ve definitely noticed that too. There’s nothing in their carefully worded statements that indicate to me that even they think they WILL play. It’s just more or less saying we are proceeding as if we may/we aren’t cancelling YET, but leaving the door open for that. Fans are totally taking it as more absolute than it actually is. It’s just a waiting game at this point, to look like they weren’t the first to cancel (in my own opinion). Let the public come to grips with the football season being severely disrupted/unusual, allow the public to somewhat normalize, and then several weeks later likely pull the plug themselves. And I think the majority of the college football fan base will still attribute most of the animosity toward the conferences they see as the first to pull out and cause this mess...the BIG10 and PAC12.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,196
Yep. The Big 10 and Pac 12 got tired of kicking the can. The rest want to kick a little while longer. It would be surprising to me at this point if anyone plays.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
18,390
I’ve definitely noticed that too. There’s nothing in their carefully worded statements that indicate to me that even they think they WILL play. It’s just more or less saying we are proceeding as if we may/we aren’t cancelling YET, but leaving the door open for that. Fans are totally taking it as more absolute than it actually is. It’s just a waiting game at this point, to look like they weren’t the first to cancel (in my own opinion). Let the public come to grips with the football season being severely disrupted/unusual, allow the public to somewhat normalize, and then several weeks later likely pull the plug themselves. And I think the majority of the college football fan base will still attribute most of the animosity toward the conferences they see as the first to pull out and cause this mess...the BIG10 and PAC12.

Ultimate confirmation bias. Fans who want football will read it as football will be played. Fans who think football shouldn't be played will say the conference is hedging. It's just like most posts in this thread...people who want football played posts tweets or articles to back their stance, those that think it's unsafe post stuff to back their stance. So we all keep going in circles...
 

stech81

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,961
Location
Woodstock Georgia
If they are worried about safety then they should end football . Put the football players in a bubble only let them stay together make them take their classes on line no going to class around others. Make the coaches do the same thing they stay in the bubble with the players no going home. Don't let any fans in the game. If they brake the rules they are off the team. Would we do this , no we would not but don't talk about safety of the players or there would be no football no kickoff running full speed to hit another player,
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
If they are worried about safety then they should end football . Put the football players in a bubble only let them stay together make them take their classes on line no going to class around others. Make the coaches do the same thing they stay in the bubble with the players no going home. Don't let any fans in the game. If they brake the rules they are off the team. Would we do this , no we would not but don't talk about safety of the players or there would be no football no kickoff running full speed to hit another player,

No fans at the games is OK, except for a few things. It will take a significant chunk out of revenue. It will be incredibly boring on TV without any crowd interaction. (Look at Duke home games on TV) Are they going to use the PA system to play crowd noise like MLB is doing?

The NBA and MLB players associations negotiated the bubbles with the leagues. There is no mechanism for college players to negotiate such a thing. The biggest question about this is are the players college students who play football, or are they professional players who happen to attend college? If they are amateur college students who play football, then isolating them and completely taking over their lives isn't acceptable. They should not be treated as professional athletes, unless the NCAA is ready to declare college sports professional and not amateur.
 

chris975d

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
903
Lets just end all college sports and use colleges to get an education. ( I am joking but some times I think people feel this way)

I actually want sports back. I’m an avid fan and former, sometimes still competitive athlete. Sports are awesome for me, and I’m a very competitive person by nature. But I want it back in a way that’s actually fun and enjoyable to watch, and ultimately safe for the SAs. Even if the conferences still “in” go through with a season at this point, it’s not exciting to me. I like all college sports, especially football and basketball, but the idea of a season starting that just continually is interrupted/possibly ended early just isn’t appealing to me in any way, shape, or form. Doesn’t even feel like a season to me at this point already. If it’s all killed/postponed at this point until things can get safer/less liability for schools/more normal, I’m completely ok with it and would honestly rather have that than a half-a***d, hodgepodge potential product we are looking at now.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,196
I actually want sports back. I’m an avid fan and former, sometimes still competitive athlete. Sports are awesome for me, and I’m a very competitive person by nature. But I want it back in a way that’s actually fun and enjoyable to watch, and ultimately safe for the SAs. Even if the conferences still “in” go through with a season at this point, it’s not exciting to me. I like all college sports, especially football and basketball, but the idea of a season starting that just continually is interrupted/possibly ended early just isn’t appealing to me in any way, shape, or form. Doesn’t even feel like a season to me at this point already. If it’s all killed/postponed at this point until things can get safer/less liability for schools/more normal, I’m completely ok with it and would honestly rather have that than a half-a***d, hodgepodge potential product we are looking at now.
This is creeping in for me as well. We are at a point now where a little over half of the teams might play, likely in empty stadiums, with no P5 OOC games, with many key players already opted out, and likely games cancelled and or key players missing throughout the season. The biggest news all year will be COVID related. It won't be about the games themselves. Its just a sad shell of a season coming if we do push forward with it. Im not even sure if they will attempt to do rankings or playoffs. Seems kind of pointless.
 

chris975d

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
903
This is creeping in for me as well. We are at a point now where a little over half of the teams might play, likely in empty stadiums, with no P5 OOC games, with many key players already opted out, and likely games cancelled and or key players missing throughout the season. The biggest news all year will be COVID related. It won't be about the games themselves. Its just a sad shell of a season coming if we do push forward with it. Im not even sure if they will attempt to do rankings or playoffs. Seems kind of pointless.

Exactly. That’s what we are faced with right now, if nothing super significant changes. That’s not appealing to me. At this point I’d much rather all conferences just postpone, ACTUALLY WORK TOGETHER, and see what kind of safe product they could organize when they are able to. This idea of half playing now, half playing “in the spring” sucks.
 

BuzzDraft

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
227
I think Nebraska is the only one that has said they are going to try to play anyway after the announcement. They released an announcement from the Chancellor, President, Athletic Director, and Head Coach that basically said they are going to look for opportunities to play. James Franklin said this morning, before the announcement, that if the Big 10 cancelled that he would "exhaust every opportunity and option.." to play. However, the Penn State AD released a statement supporting the Big 10 decision.

I think it is very possible that Nebraska will be an independent next year. They are already on shaky ground in the Big 10 because they lost AAU status. I don't believe the Big 12 would take them back.
First, let me congratulate you for having one of the best font names on Tech message boards (along with DressedCheeseSide, JojaTek and others I don't recall off the top of my head)! I wonder how many here get the reference? In the latter 70s I watched some of those 4 minute masterpieces get created at the Stud Center, presented while still wet with a huge smile and eye contact with each spectator, and sold for 20 bucks to an impulse buying coed. Guy was a master salesman. Now, on to the subject at hand...

Nebraska's response was purely emotional and released just minutes after the decision was announced. They're indulging in their temper tantrum moment, like the bratty kid who stamps his feet and screams in the grocery store because he isn't getting what he wants when Mom tells him he can't put the box of Fruity Pebbles in the cart. Scott Frost is a blowhard and is embarrassing himself.

Not well thought out. The implied threat is a laughable joke. They have no options for playing outside the conference and all they accomplished was antagonizing their conference brethren and marginalizing themselves in future decisions of import. Their response got a lot of backlash last night from inside the conference and in sports media... reminding them that they're lucky as hell that the B1G took them in when they were sick of Texas dominating everything and wanted out badly, and then landed on their feet with the huge windfall of the much larger B1G annual payout. They haven't done jack since joining the conference, lost their AAU, and really don't bring much to the conference. What are they going to do, pay the fees and leave to become independent? Any TV revenue they get plus their conference share would be divvied up among the "Big Televen" and they would be left wandering the wilderness with no money, no leverage, and no immediate suitors. BYU in a cornfield.
 

GTNavyNuke

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
10,075
Location
Williamsburg Virginia
Yep, and we should all let that sink in. They’re not okay with trying football and then canceling after a few games if they have problems. But they are okay with doing that with regular students. They want that tuition, dorm, apartment, meal plan money first.

I think there is a distinction in that there is the belief that students can social distance and wear masks. That is what is being done elsewhere in society. It's an "accepted practice".

Playing contact sports like football isn't being done elsewhere in society.

I expect there to be another increase in COVID two weeks after Labor Day, just like after the 4th of July. Not good for the middle of September if that happens.

One thing that is self evident is that even if there is football this fall, there is about 0% chance that there will be any significant number of fans allowed in. The "6 foot rule" doesn't functionally apply for people yelling; look at choir restrictions and some super spreader events from them. I can't imagine myself following protocol after a few beers at a GT game.

As to the earlier hate on lawyers (I'm not one), the Czar of Russia reportedly believed that all lawyers except his should be killed. The lawyers are a symptom of our society; we can afford them and are successful given our strong rule of law in this country. Can't have rule of law without lawyers.
 

YJMD

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,628
You have to wonder how hundreds of thousands of people across the country now have myocarditis and nobody’s reporting it.

There is logic there, although reality is that things don't work that way. The truth is that the symptoms of myocarditis overlap with the symptoms of COVID and are likely not to be diagnosed unless the symptoms are severe and push someone into overt heart failure. What we don't know is the clinical significance of most cases of myocarditis from COVID-19. But we do know that quite a lot of people are having significant lingering shortness of breath, fatigue, poor appetite, intermittent fever, chest pain in their process of recovery from COVID-19 and weeks after. What has been more recent is investigating the cause of this being specifically myocardial inflammation and discovering that some degree of inflammation is frequently present in recovered patients even without significant symptoms. However, someone playing high level athletics is going to be much more acutely aware of and limited by even a milder case of myocarditis, and a high level athlete is likely to have more ready access to physicians who are inclined to try and determine the cause of someone's difficulty with exertion rather than informing someone that they are simply still recovering from the infection. Unfortunately, it is not simply a process of recovery. Myocarditis can cause permanent damage which could cost an athlete their career.

All that said, an ACL tear could do the same. It is not new that athletes encounter risk. The idea that we are discovering greater and more uncertain concerns about the risks of COVID to athletes, is valid, but as has been pointed out several times, the risk to someone posed by COVID contracted in the community is the same as the risk posed by COVID contracted through athletics. It's valid to question whether keeping athletes in a training program with special restrictions and not playing football is lower risk than doing the same and playing football, but the probability when using common sense does seem to be that if they are pursuing competition they will keep themselves safer, be more regularly screened for symptoms and tested for illness, and therefore end up at lower risk. If a more formal analysis yields the same conclusion, the concern for athletes here is liability. And to me that is a bunch of BS that shows how backwards our society can be, but it is a financial reality for schools so I don't begrudge them trying to quantify it.

Risk to athletes is not my concern when projecting a season. Firstly, the decision-making is largely financial. Athletic departments heavily depend on football income, and some are in much more vulnerable positions than others. And a lot of that income for many programs relies on butts in the seats. Fans showing up to the stadium is a whole different ball-game when talking about risk, and it might make financial sense to delay football if it's reasonable that you can safely put more butts in the seats in January onward. I'm also surprised there is little discussion about the liability of people getting COVID at a football game. But I'm not a law expert, so maybe there's less risk that a school could be held responsible in that situation.

My other concern is in looking to baseball in particular. This is not so much that someone will test positive, have to isolate, and everyone else gets to play the games or play the following week. 1 positive means isolation for a lot of people, and then you get cascade effects with persistent positive tests or 1 person seeding to another with a delay in onset seeding to another with a delay in onset, and teams will just be sidelined for a month waiting until everyone is clear. Or if a team plays a player on Saturday who tested negative but on Monday tests positive -- does that mean the other team has to go into lockdown for 10 days? Etc. Even if there is limited risk to players and you come up with safe ways to keep infections from spreading, those ways might mean a significant chunk of the season doesn't actually get played, and I can certainly understand (especially with vaccinations on the horizon) people thinking the odds of actually getting the games played will be higher in the Spring.
 

stech81

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,961
Location
Woodstock Georgia
No fans at the games is OK, except for a few things. It will take a significant chunk out of revenue. It will be incredibly boring on TV without any crowd interaction. (Look at Duke home games on TV)
Playing without fans is fine I would rather be at the game, TV without any crowd boring ? no , not as boring no Tech football.
do I think we will play ? no , but I also don't think they we play in the spring, two seasons three months apart is not looking out for the players.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,048
Playing without fans is fine I would rather be at the game, TV without any crowd boring ? no , not as boring no Tech football.
do I think we will play ? no , but I also don't think they we play in the spring, two seasons three months apart is not looking out for the players.

I would rather have some GT football than none also. I think if "some" football is played in the fall, it will probably end up looking like scrimmage games.

I haven't heard any actual plans for spring football. I have heard commentators say that it would have to wait until after the Super Bowl. I have heard that Harbaugh has suggested having "Big 10" weekends at indoor professional stadiums to limit weather concerns. For everyone except the Big 12, you could have a six game conference schedule and play everyone in your division. Then have a conference championship game. You could have a CFP with four of the conference champions. If that season started in January, you could have most of the P5 completed by mid February, the championship games finished by the end of February, and then only four teams playing within 7 months of the 2021 season.

Something creative can be thought up. I have no idea if they will be able to play in January, or even by March. However, it doesn't cost much to come up with ideas and develop them. The teams and conferences should be developing all kinds of different scenarios, even ones that they don't think are likely.
 
Top