The ACC will delay the start of competition for all fall sports until at least Sept. 1

LibertyTurns

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The protest started during Vietnam because it was on the news all the time.
Back to football I really hope the ACC does not pull the rug out from us in 2 weeks.
Most games I’d have to fly to Atlanta due to my personal schedule. I gotta book a ticket for 9/19 soon otherwise I’m driving which is a big pain for me due to the distance. This is really beginning to suck. I don’t know if I have seats, I don’t know if we’re playing, Homecoming is up in the air and probably dead, I got no confidence we won’t change our mind, etc. We’re supposed to be fully formed up by now. I should know who all is descending upon Atlanta on which weekend, where we’re all gaggling up at, where I’m staying, when we’re golfing, when kids are coming and I need to get extra seats, etc.
 

85Escape

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471
What liability would we have if a player or players who 10-15 years from now die and it can be traced back to heart damage from playing sports with myocarditis that was caused from asymptomatic COVID-19? Can we plan for that with our budgets. Those are the kinds of questions they were asking, and the types of people they were talking to.

THIS. I've been in some high-level corporate discussions related to COVID-19. It's all about the liability, no matter how much we dress it up as safety. We are living the nightmare created over the past 40 years of the growth of our litigious society, which itself stems from a severe lack of personal accountability for one's own self and well-being. And bwelbo is right, if this was about health they would cancel in-person classes and shut down campuses. But they've determined that they are unlikely to be held liable for students who have long-term health issues stemming from SARS-CoV-2 infections, and 'the money was too good.'

Makes me want to spit to see the lawyers take over our world. If I was a doctor I'd refuse to treat lawyers...you don't want to know the damage to the supply of PPE that has been caused by the knowledge that the legal firms are chomping at the bit to sue providers of PPE for negligence when this thing is over. It will be a massive class-action against the very people trying to protect others, all to benefit mostly the law firms. Pfft.

And, oh, this is why the Big 12 could potentially play (from your very own favorite schools academic side): https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/
 
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85Escape

Jolly Good Fellow
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471
As far as I know 100%, which is D2 about 20 years ago, no. Only if the injury is in practice or game is the school liable. Getting sick, all on you my man.
But all Tech kids are covered under the umbrella health insurance policy that students get, right? Or, at least, my kid is covered for health care costs.
 

BigE

Georgia Tech Fan
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These SA contracted the myocarditis playing football? No. COVID caught in the community Is the same as one caught playing football. Many infections can result in myocarditis. This virus isn’t going away, even after we get a rushed vaccine.

if we get a vaccine by New Year, it will be months, perhaps years before everyone gets it and even then then vaccine will have unknown lasting efficacy. We will have same debates next year.

We need to be learn to live with this virus just as we live with other hazards.
 

RonJohn

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2,947
These SA contracted the myocarditis playing football? No. COVID caught in the community Is the same as one caught playing football. Many infections can result in myocarditis. This virus isn’t going away, even after we get a rushed vaccine.

If there are 10 Big 10 athletes who have developed myocarditis from COVID-19, I can see why the Big 10 is concerned. If you look at the medical websites you see things like this:
The risk of exercise-induced sudden death is real, however, even with mild cases of myocarditis. It is critical that young athletes restrict their athletic activities until given an "all clear" by their cardiologist.
Myocarditis can develop even in people who are asymptomatic with respect to COVID-19. Are the football programs going to give EKGs to every player every day to be sure?
 

chris975d

Ramblin' Wreck
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847
THIS. I've been in some high-level corporate discussions related to COVID-19. It's all about the liability, no matter how much we dress it up as safety. We are living the nightmare created over the past 40 years of the growth of our litigious society, which itself stems from a severe lack of personal accountability for one's own self and well-being. And bwelbo is right, if this was about health they would cancel in-person classes and shut down campuses. But they've determined that they are unlikely to be held liable for students who have long-term health issues stemming from SARS-CoV-2 infections, and 'the money was too good.'

Makes me want to spit to see the lawyers take over our world. If I was a doctor I'd refuse to treat lawyers...you don't want to know the damage to the supply of PPE that has been caused by the knowledge that the legal firms are chomping at the bit to sue providers of PPE for negligence when this thing is over. It will be a massive class-action against the very people trying to protect others, all to benefit mostly the law firms. Pfft.

And, oh, this is why the Big 12 could potentially play (from your very own favorite schools academic side): https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

It’s definitely lawyers and the possible legal nightmare that would ensue if the worst occurred if football was played that has caused the conferences to delay/cancel.


“But for those pressing forward to play, heed one warning: The lawyers will be circling. Not the ones counseling conferences to avoid trifling with players’ health, but the ones who will be doing the suing if, God forbid, a player dies, has long-term damage or career-threatening complications. In an email to Sports Illustrated, prominent college sports attorney Tom Mars offered this chilling view of what the Big 12, ACC and SEC could be getting into:


“Whatever conference(s) decides to play football this fall will be taking a ridiculously high risk they may soon regret. I know and have talked with some of the best plaintiff’s lawyers in the country this week, and they’re praying the SEC, Big 12 and/or the ACC are greedy enough to stay the course. If things go sideways, the plaintiff’s Bar will immediately get their hands on the internal financial analyses of the schools (a FOIA layup), get the conference financials through the discovery process, and then just stand in front of the jurors and point to the conferences that decided not to risk the health of their student-athletes. Good Lord, I’d hate to be the lawyers defending those cases.”

And the attorneys lining up to represent plaintiffs? “These are lawyers who’ve already slain bigger dragons than the SEC, and they can afford to finance the most expensive litigation on the planet. As a coalition, they’d be the legal equivalent of the Death Star.”

Sleep well, Big 12, ACC and SEC leaders.”
 

RamblinRed

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So there it is laid bare - they are unserious. “If there are outbreaks“ means on campus. “If there are outbreaks”, will they close campus down? “If there are outbreaks” means they’re willing to use regular students as guinea pigs. Lifelong heart problems for regular students. This isn’t a get off my lawn illustration, it’s pointing out the inconsistency. If you were the head of Ohio State and you were sincerely scared about Lifelong heart issues, you would not want 50,000 kids on your university picking that up and spreading it to more.

It's why many universities have decided to go online this fall.

it's why I expect as some campuses have large outbreaks they will close their campuses and go to online learning during the year.

Everything is about weighing different variables and your decision changes based on how those variables change. Right now alot of schools are willing to have students back on campus because they desperately need the revenue from them being on campus. The AA's want to play football not because it is in the SA's best interest but because they want the revenue. As the variables change so do the decisions. If the campuses start having large outbreaks then the sports and likely the students on campus will end again like in the spring.

Look at a situation like Athens right now. As of a week ago the 12 county Athens hospital region had no critical care beds available. What happens when you put thousands of students in Athens, is that likely to make that situation worse? Could it mean completely overwhelming the hospital network - that is certainly a possibility.
 

RamblinRed

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Big Red needs to pull the plug and go back to the Big 12 if they'd have them. They stick out like a sore thumb in the Big 10 to me.

Both the B10 and PAC12 were quite smart in how they approached this. They are using valid medical reasons to postpone their seasons (note they have specifically said they are hoping to play in the Spring - that is important). Since they haven't cancelled and said they are not playing until Fall of 2021 it is unlikely the NCAA will grant waivers to student-athletes that decide to leave and it also leaves all their contracts with their members in place - so if a Nebraska really wants to make a stink it can pay up $50M - which it likely doesn't have, and leave - no get out of jail free card. Since the B10 holds the TV contract if Nebraska left they would have to sue to get to take their TV rights with them and until they get a positive decision in the courts would hold little value to anyone else as the new conference wouldn't get money for them.
 

RamblinRed

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Finally I know this is the football board but college basketball is my first love so I wanted to leave this article on trying to save the college basketball season. It's basically a bubble proposal with a start date in Jan. I've already heard alot of chatter that college basketball before January is not very likely.

 

Techster

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13,202
It’s definitely lawyers and the possible legal nightmare that would ensue if the worst occurred if football was played that has caused the conferences to delay/cancel.


“But for those pressing forward to play, heed one warning: The lawyers will be circling. Not the ones counseling conferences to avoid trifling with players’ health, but the ones who will be doing the suing if, God forbid, a player dies, has long-term damage or career-threatening complications. In an email to Sports Illustrated, prominent college sports attorney Tom Mars offered this chilling view of what the Big 12, ACC and SEC could be getting into:


“Whatever conference(s) decides to play football this fall will be taking a ridiculously high risk they may soon regret. I know and have talked with some of the best plaintiff’s lawyers in the country this week, and they’re praying the SEC, Big 12 and/or the ACC are greedy enough to stay the course. If things go sideways, the plaintiff’s Bar will immediately get their hands on the internal financial analyses of the schools (a FOIA layup), get the conference financials through the discovery process, and then just stand in front of the jurors and point to the conferences that decided not to risk the health of their student-athletes. Good Lord, I’d hate to be the lawyers defending those cases.”

And the attorneys lining up to represent plaintiffs? “These are lawyers who’ve already slain bigger dragons than the SEC, and they can afford to finance the most expensive litigation on the planet. As a coalition, they’d be the legal equivalent of the Death Star.”

Sleep well, Big 12, ACC and SEC leaders.”

This is the ultimate reason why I think the SEC, Big 12, and ACC eventually call off Fall sports. Right now they are committed to moving forward, and I think they are buying time for a magic pill, but in the end the liability risks and media blowback will be too great for them to actually have games. You can be sure every conference and school is on the line with their liability insurers...and if that insurer says "you are on your own" if something catastrophic happens to an SA with Covid, people are stopping everything.

In the end, it's not even the conferences or each school's ADs that will determine if football is played, it's each school's president. As long as risks are less than the rewards, everyone will move forward with games. If risks start to outweigh the rewards, you can be sure the school presidents will put their foot down and end it.
 

Techster

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13,202
Finally I know this is the football board but college basketball is my first love so I wanted to leave this article on trying to save the college basketball season. It's basically a bubble proposal with a start date in Jan. I've already heard alot of chatter that college basketball before January is not very likely.


I love both sports, but I won't lie that I'm more excited about our basketball team this year. We have a legitimate shot at a top 4 ACC finish and making the tournament. I think the narrative of our BBall program can turn this season with all the talent we have and what we can do on the the court.

We are going to need a basketball season for that to happen. Basketball can move full time to the spring and make it work, and think that's what will ultimately happen.
 

bwelbo

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It's why many universities have decided to go online this fall.

it's why I expect as some campuses have large outbreaks they will close their campuses and go to online learning during the year.

Everything is about weighing different variables and your decision changes based on how those variables change. Right now alot of schools are willing to have students back on campus because they desperately need the revenue from them being on campus. The AA's want to play football not because it is in the SA's best interest but because they want the revenue. As the variables change so do the decisions. If the campuses start having large outbreaks then the sports and likely the students on campus will end again like in the spring.

Look at a situation like Athens right now. As of a week ago the 12 county Athens hospital region had no critical care beds available. What happens when you put thousands of students in Athens, is that likely to make that situation worse? Could it mean completely overwhelming the hospital network - that is certainly a possibility.

Yep bingo - it’s a money and risk decision. Students that age don’t end up in the ICU very often from COVID. The hospitals there are more likely to be overrun by bad STD outbreaks, meth overdoses, and other various Darwin mishaps.
 

bwelbo

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I love both sports, but I won't lie that I'm more excited about our basketball team this year. We have a legitimate shot at a top 4 ACC finish and making the tournament. I think the narrative of our BBall program can turn this season with all the talent we have and what we can do on the the court.

We are going to need a basketball season for that to happen. Basketball can move full time to the spring and make it work, and think that's what will ultimately happen.

I totally agree. I mean we finished 5th out of 15 last year when many of our star players were hurt like a third of the season.
 

RonJohn

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Both the B10 and PAC12 were quite smart in how they approached this.

I'm not so sure about that. The Big 10 announced a conference only schedule before anyone else. They then released their schedule last week. Then in just a few days they cancelled.

There have been some grumblings that the teams haven't been able to tell the players much more than that they won't play in the fall. Some commentators have suggested that the conference has known for a couple of weeks that it was likely to postpone the season.

The smart thing would have been: To not announce the conference only schedule until about a week or two ago, in enough time for OOC opponents to understand they wouldn't be playing those games before starting training camp. To develop plans for what this means for the student athletes before making a cancellation announcement. To articulate those plans to the student athletes immediately after making the announcement.

I am not sure about the timing of the vote and announcement. It could have probably waited a little longer. However, if heart issues are the concern, then maybe they don't want the teams to practice until there are heart monitoring protocols in place?
 

bwelbo

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This is the ultimate reason why I think the SEC, Big 12, and ACC eventually call off Fall sports. Right now they are committed to moving forward, and I think they are buying time for a magic pill, but in the end the liability risks and media blowback will be too great for them to actually have games. You can be sure every conference and school is on the line with their liability insurers...and if that insurer says "you are on your own" if something catastrophic happens to an SA with Covid, people are stopping everything.

In the end, it's not even the conferences or each school's ADs that will determine if football is played, it's each school's president. As long as risks are less than the rewards, everyone will move forward with games. If risks start to outweigh the rewards, you can be sure the school presidents will put their foot down and end it.

There have been some studies that looked at football players brains and nearly 100% had CTE. As you say, it’s a risk and money issue. These people don’t really care about the health of their students or they would have already canceled football for other reasons long ago and they wouldn’t allow kids back on campus.
 

chris975d

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
847
This is the ultimate reason why I think the SEC, Big 12, and ACC eventually call off Fall sports. Right now they are committed to moving forward, and I think they are buying time for a magic pill, but in the end the liability risks and media blowback will be too great for them to actually have games. You can be sure every conference and school is on the line with their liability insurers...and if that insurer says "you are on your own" if something catastrophic happens to an SA with Covid, people are stopping everything.

In the end, it's not even the conferences or each school's ADs that will determine if football is played, it's each school's president. As long as risks are less than the rewards, everyone will move forward with games. If risks start to outweigh the rewards, you can be sure the school presidents will put their foot down and end it.

i agree. I don’t think there’s really any way the remaining conferences actually have football. It’s more of a PR thing at this point in my opinion. Buy more time until you have to do the inevitable, MAYBE also more time for a magic bullet to solve things, but at the end of the day look like you did all you could to avoid cancelling/postponing. I don’t think many/any presidents are going to really pull the trigger on going forward with a season when lawyers are advising against it.
 

bwelbo

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i agree. I don’t think there’s really any way the remaining conferences actually have football. It’s more of a PR thing at this point in my opinion. Buy more time until you have to do the inevitable, MAYBE also more time for a magic bullet to solve things, but at the end of the day look like you did all you could to avoid cancelling/postponing. I don’t think many/any presidents are going to really pull the trigger on going forward with a season when lawyers are advising against it.

Yep. Sad. It’s what happens when you make decisions on emotion and not data. You end up being okay that a lot of your players will get CTE...but you’re not okay with not knowing if risks you’re worried about will ever actually materialize. And you’re okay with bringing tens of thousands of students back to campus. In which case those social gatherings would have a higher likelihood to infect your players anyway.
 
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