Ted Roof's job

Whiskey_Clear

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Not sure what happened on my previous attempt to respond to this, but I will try again. I don't recall Don Lindsey (sp?) being hated, and Bud Carson, WHEN he was DC, was definitely not hated.

Carson predates me. I'll agree on Lindsey but have no personal recollection of him under Curry, or Curry's OC for that matter. I think scrutiny of assistants back then was comparably non existent. Was pretty young though so may have been ignorant if it did exist.
 

tech_wreck47

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I think most people think that the %s are higher. Again, the reality is we have a very mediocre defense. My purpose in quoting points per game was to refute the notion JMonty had that we needed to score 30+ per game in order to win. That's not true, and the stats bear it out.

I'll also say that I don't think scheme is our problem. I have watched all but the Pitt game this year, and what I have consistently seen is that our main weakness is tackling. Way too many times I have seen us make contact before the markers on third down and still have the opposing O make the first down. I haven't researched the stats, but I haven't seen us give up a lot of plays over 20 yds. Of the few I remember/know of, 2 were deflected passes that were caught. Most of the plays that have burned us are in the 6-10 yard range, most coming after initial contact by a GT defender. The same goes with our pass rush. I've seen us whiff an awful lot on the QB, when we were in the backfield with a shot. I am not sure how much of this is due to bad angles or bad form. This is what I see holding us back so far. (Again, I haven't watched the Pitt game yet, so my observations may change somewhat)

How much of that is coaching vs execution? I really can't say. But I would tend to believe that the coaches are aware of and trying to correct the tackling deficiencies, just as CPJ was aware of and correcting the OL deficiencies from last year. That's why I am not, yet, on the fire CTR bandwagon.
The reason I disagree about scheme is because besides tackling we don't get off blocks very well on the D line. If we would play more into shooting gaps that would help a lot imo. Our D line occupies lanes so our LB's can fill in the running lanes which is ok, if your D line can get off blocks to help out or cause team to double team guys on your D line to get free up LB's from gettin blocked easier, and I just don't see that happening very often. That's why I have said it take a big strong D line to do what we are trying to do and we are not there yet, we need more dominant players for our scheme imo. And my main reason on the fire roof is simply because I have not seen him build and be successful anywhere and he's coached for a long time. I would love for him to turn things around but with his history I just don't see it.
 

GTHOSCHTON

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
177
Have you ever played? I agree that just because you have played doesn't mean you know anything, but for the most part if you haven't played you don't have a clue about near as much of someone who has played at a high level. I'm a firm believer that most people that are big fans that haven't played honestly don't have a clue about what they are talking about, because playing most definitely gives you a better perspective of how the game actually works. I know this from experience, I have had many conversations with people that are die hard fans that have never played but they say things they know nothing about although they think they do.
Have you ever played? I agree that just because you have played doesn't mean you know anything, but for the most part if you haven't played you don't have a clue about near as much of someone who has played at a high level. I'm a firm believer that most people that are big fans that haven't played honestly don't have a clue about what they are talking about, because playing most definitely gives you a better perspective of how the game actually works. I know this from experience, I have had many conversations with people that are die hard fans that have never played but they say things they know nothing about although they think they do.
yes I have played the game, and then some
 

PBR549

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
837
I think most people think that the %s are higher. Again, the reality is we have a very mediocre defense. My purpose in quoting points per game was to refute the notion JMonty had that we needed to score 30+ per game in order to win. That's not true, and the stats bear it out.

I'll also say that I don't think scheme is our problem. I have watched all but the Pitt game this year, and what I have consistently seen is that our main weakness is tackling. Way too many times I have seen us make contact before the markers on third down and still have the opposing O make the first down. I haven't researched the stats, but I haven't seen us give up a lot of plays over 20 yds. Of the few I remember/know of, 2 were deflected passes that were caught. Most of the plays that have burned us are in the 6-10 yard range, most coming after initial contact by a GT defender. The same goes with our pass rush. I've seen us whiff an awful lot on the QB, when we were in the backfield with a shot. I am not sure how much of this is due to bad angles or bad form. This is what I see holding us back so far. (Again, I haven't watched the Pitt game yet, so my observations may change somewhat)

How much of that is coaching vs execution? I really can't say. But I would tend to believe that the coaches are aware of and trying to correct the tackling deficiencies, just as CPJ was aware of and correcting the OL deficiencies from last year. That's why I am not, yet, on the fire CTR bandwagon.
I agree. When you put players in position to make plays and they can't make them that's not scheme. Football eventually comes down to beating your man and making a play. We are getting better at it but we've rarely had those war daddy's who could consistently do that. If you "shoot gaps" as some on here want you further expose those deficiencies.
 
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Carson predates me. I'll agree on Lindsey but have no personal recollection of him under Curry, or Curry's OC for that matter. I think scrutiny of assistants back then was comparably non existent. Was pretty young though so may have been ignorant if it did exist.
Although "scrutiny" of assistants might not have been so volatile back then, but Carson as DC in Dodd's last year was extremely well liked and respected; his defense, a precursor of his NFL Steel Curtain, was awesome. Unfortunately, he was not HC material, although he did learn in the process and probably should not have been fired when he was. Everybody credited Lindsey for the defense we had under Curry; that was the famed Black Watch defense, and it was his design.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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This Ted Roof defense is horrible. See, watch this example in overtime. And we gave up 24 points too...



Correction: We gave up 17 points. The O refs gave up 7 when we fumbled the ball at the goal line they failed to blow a whistle as the pile was being driven backwards and forward progress was stopped.

But I get your point. :D
 

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
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8,670
I agree. When you put players in position to make plays and they can't make them that's not scheme. Football eventually comes down to beating your man and making a play. We are getting better at it but we've rarely had those war daddy's who could consistently do that. If you "shoot gaps" as some on here want you further expose those deficiencies.
It is possible to play to your players strengths though, and I don't feel we don't that. We don't have the players to play the scheme we play it's a pretty simple concept if the D line is asked to take on blocks instead of shooting gaps and they are not strong enough to get off blocks then they will not make the play and that's a huge issue for us, getting off the blocks. How is that helping the kids out or not scheme? There are a ton of defenses that shoot gaps with the same type of player we recruit that have better defenses than us. Please explain how you expose deficiencies by shooting gaps? I would like your take on how that works?
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
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615
I think you are cherry picking too bud. Point is CTR deserves more credit than what you are giving him. Don't give up on him.

He has done OK with others peoples recruits. By the time his recruits are playing, the D is awful. AU 2012 is a prime example
he has never been anywhere else longer than 2 years, so how in the world do we call him a great recruiter?
 

tech_wreck47

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I think you are cherry picking too bud. Point is CTR deserves more credit than what you are giving him. Don't give up on him.
Where did I cherry pick lol I was pointing out you can't just use one game, we were outside of the top 75 in D for the Season as a WHOLE what is cherry picking about that bud? It's an actually fact. I gave games as an example to why we were not a good D, and backed it up showing what our D was ranked, if that's cherry picking my definition of it must be off.

Why does he deserve more credit? Has he built a D up any where else in his entire long career? I have nothing against him, and I think he's a good recruiter. I just don't think he's been that great of a D coordinator.
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
615
Where did I cherry pick lol I was pointing out you can't just use one game, we were outside of the top 75 in D for the Season as a WHOLE what is cherry picking about that bud? It's an actually fact. I gave games as an example to why we were not a good D, and backed it up showing what our D was ranked, if that's cherry picking my definition of it must be off.

Why does he deserve more credit? Has he built a D up any where else in his entire long career? I have nothing against him, and I think he's a good recruiter. I just don't think he's been that great of a D coordinator.

IMO, he isn't that great of a recruiter.
At AU he went after smaller, hybrid type LB's and it killed their D for a few years after he left. Ask a true AU fan about him. Not nice things to say.
 

tech_wreck47

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IMO, he isn't that great of a recruiter.
At AU he went after smaller, hybrid type LB's and it killed their D for a few years after he left. Ask a true AU fan about him. Not nice things to say.
I'm not saying great but imo he is a good recruiter, from what I have heard he connects well with the kids. Warner is a prime example, he has said roof has been the best recruiter for him.
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
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615
I'm not saying great but imo he is a good recruiter, from what I have heard he connects well with the kids. Warner is a prime example, he has said roof has been the best recruiter for him.

gotcha.
He may connect well but with the wrong kids lol...
Hopefully he (or the next one) can turn it around and do something with the D.
 

IronJacket7

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Where did I cherry pick lol I was pointing out you can't just use one game, we were outside of the top 75 in D for the Season as a WHOLE what is cherry picking about that bud? It's an actually fact. I gave games as an example to why we were not a good D, and backed it up showing what our D was ranked, if that's cherry picking my definition of it must be off.

Why does he deserve more credit? Has he built a D up any where else in his entire long career? I have nothing against him, and I think he's a good recruiter. I just don't think he's been that great of a D coordinator.
You used a few games as examples to prove your opinion. I can use examples of why he's done a decent job. Cherry picking....

I understand you're not satisfied with what you're seeing on the field. Non of us are. But that doesn't mean CTR is a bad DC. Bad games sure but every DC, OC, and HC has them. Just relax, it could be worse.
 

IronJacket7

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He has done OK with others peoples recruits. By the time his recruits are playing, the D is awful. AU 2012 is a prime example
he has never been anywhere else longer than 2 years, so how in the world do we call him a great recruiter?
I wouldn't call him a great recruiter. I do believe he's done decent though. And I have to believe he helped CBC with the Swillings. Our defense has not been great but it has been decent. And look at the 2nd half defense of all our games as a whole. It's pretty darn good. CTR makes good adjustments at halftime for the most part.
 

tech_wreck47

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You used a few games as examples to prove your opinion. I can use examples of why he's done a decent job. Cherry picking....

I understand you're not satisfied with what you're seeing on the field. Non of us are. But that doesn't mean CTR is a bad DC. Bad games sure but every DC, OC, and HC has them. Just relax, it could be worse.
No, it's not just my opinion why do you keep ignoring the fact that we were outside the top 75 in D? I used those games as an EXAMPLE That's my case for saying we weren't good, if that's good to you then ok. But that's not cherry picking when I back it up with FACTS as to where we were ranked. Roof hasn't had a good D while at GT and it shows by our stats in ypp and the efficiency of other offenses, I'm going by stats not just my opinion so I have facts to back it up.
 
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tech_wreck47

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I love what I just saw from VT they had all the LB's and DE's standing and at the los so the OL had no clue who was coming. I wish we did more "exotic" things like that. If you are able to watch the game, pay attention to all the different things VT does on deffense.
 
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