Should Hall Return?

[AE 87]

That must be the first time I have ever been called a liberal, I am about as conservative as a person can be.

Nm

 

[LargeFO]

You can keep bringing it up but that's not an apples to apples comparison and you know it. It is monumentally easier to win an acc baseball championship at tech compared to football. And I know one of his fluky acc tourney runs was sandwiched between a losing acc record on the season and getting bounced in the tournament that counts per usual.

I'm going to keep bringing this up. Even in those 6 losing seasons, he has won 2 ACC championships which is more than football and basketball combined in the last decade and a half. He is also the only coach at Tech with a winning record against UGaG. He is definitely on the hot seat, but like I already posted, I believe that he deserves one more year to get himself off that hot seat.

 

[4shotB]

@65Jacket Like I think @65Jacket implied, I believe firing people is the hardest thing to do. I did it several times and it was awful.

I agree that firing people isn't necessarily "easy" and I would imagine that most of us do not enjoy the process. But in my experience, not making the move when necessary is infinitely worse...for everyone concerned. A guy hanging on past his time runs the risk of tarnishing his legacy and undoing the good will he has accumulated. As true in business as it is in sports.

 

[THWG]

You can keep bringing it up but that's not an apples to apples comparison and you know it. It is monumentally easier to win an acc baseball championship at tech compared to football. And I know one of his fluky acc tourney runs was sandwiched between a losing acc record on the season and getting bounced in the tournament that counts per usual.

Fluky?! There is nothing Fluky about winning a championship and I don't care what sport it is. I mean are we so blessed as a fan base to be able to discount a CHAMPIONSHIP. This is something that we rarely get to witness in any sport at Tech. As to the comparison being apples to apples, you're right, it isn't. However, to say that it is monumentally easier to win one in baseball, at Tech as opposed to football, is an exaggeration and a bit naive. The ACC has been a baseball conference far longer than it has been a football conference.

 

[Lagrangejacket]

Fluky?! There is nothing Fluky about winning a championship and I don't care what sport it is.

Of course there is. When is the last time you saw an ACC team with a sub-.500 conference record win a football championship? We've done it twice recently in baseball. Football doesn't let 12 of the top 14 teams into the championship/tournament- only the top team from each division. We've never won our division in the post-division era in ACC baseball.

It's much harder to be good over 30 games over the course of the year than get hot for 4 games at the end. Danny has had some success lately with the latter, but it's been a while for the former. I'm grateful for the championships, but let's not act like the ACC baseball 'champion' has a claim to being the best team in the ACC that year, unlike the football champion. Else we wouldn't have have gotten slaughtered the next week in NCAA play (15-3 against UF, anyone?).

 

[THWG]

Of course there is. When is the last time you saw an ACC team with a sub-.500 conference record win a football championship? We've done it twice recently in baseball. Football doesn't let 12 of the top 14 teams into the championship/tournament- only the top team from each division. We've never won our division in the post-division era in ACC baseball.

It's much harder to be good over 30 games over the course of the year than get hot for 4 games at the end. Danny has had some success lately with the latter, but it's been a while for the former. I'm grateful for the championships, but let's not act like the ACC baseball 'champion' has a claim to being the best team in the ACC that year, unlike the football champion. Else we wouldn't have have gotten slaughtered the next week in NCAA play (15-3 against UF, anyone?).

I can agree with that, but I still consider winning the championship a huge feat and am not willing to downplay it or write it off as a fluke.

 

[LargeFO]

Fluky?! There is nothing Fluky about winning a championship and I don't care what sport it is. I mean are we so blessed as a fan base to be able to discount a CHAMPIONSHIP. This is something that we rarely get to witness in any sport at Tech. As to the comparison being apples to apples, you're right, it isn't. However, to say that it is monumentally easier to win one in baseball, at Tech as opposed to football, is an exaggeration and a bit naive. The ACC has been a baseball conference far longer than it has been a football conference.

How many recruits does Danny hall have to quit/not even begin to recruit due to academics vs. Johnson?

 

[FredJacket]

How many recruits does Danny hall have to quit/not even begin to recruit due to academics vs. Johnson?

Did you just call FB players dummies?

 

[THWG]

How many recruits does Danny hall have to quit/not even begin to recruit due to academics vs. Johnson?

Blake Jackson, Daniel Gooden, Eric Knox, Jackson Webb just to name some off the top of my head. He is also handicapped really and has to almost exclusively recruit Georgia (I know that we are a hotbed for talent, sometimes it is better to cast a wide net) because with hope, he can give more players close to full scholarships if not full rides.

 

[Lagrangejacket]

Blake Jackson, Daniel Gooden, Eric Knox, Jackson Webb just to name some off the top of my head. He is also handicapped really and has to almost exclusively recruit Georgia (I know that we are a hotbed for talent, sometimes it is better to cast a wide net) because with hope, he can give more players close to full scholarships if not full rides.

I think this is generously phrased. He doesn't 'have to' recruit GA exclusively because of HOPE, but rather he gets to. Most states don't have a HOPE-like scholarship mechanism, so most coaches have to deal with spreading scholarships even thinner. In theory, it should free up more 'ships for out of state students.

 

[AE 87]

How many recruits does Danny hall have to quit/not even begin to recruit due to academics vs. Johnson?

I don't know, but the start of downward trend in wins corresponds with introduction of apr. Could be just coincidence.

 

[FredJacket]

Hold the presses... all we need is a DAWG. ...the irony.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/unc-bas...home-run/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7e&linkId=38017730

 

[THWG]

I think this is generously phrased. He doesn't 'have to' recruit GA exclusively because of HOPE, but rather he gets to. Most states don't have a HOPE-like scholarship mechanism, so most coaches have to deal with spreading scholarships even thinner. In theory, it should free up more 'ships for out of state students.

I think this is generously phrased. He doesn't 'have to' recruit GA exclusively because of HOPE, but rather he gets to. Most states don't have a HOPE-like scholarship mechanism, so most coaches have to deal with spreading scholarships even thinner. In theory, it should free up more 'ships for out of state students.

That's a good point. I was thinking about it as he recruits kids from GA and gives them what hope doesn't cover. That would spread the scholarships out more and allow us to get more of the talented players in GA, but at the expense of not being able to recruit nationally.

 

[LargeFO]

Did you just call FB players dummies?

Eh, putting together a team of 85 with academic restrictions is much tougher. Just saw yesterday our top a-back prospect for '18 is already probably out due to academics. Happens left and right for CPJ. I'm not buying that hall has nearly the issues yearly in immediate "no's" on prospects.

 

[FredJacket]

Eh, putting together a team of 85 with academic restrictions is much tougher. Just saw yesterday our top a-back prospect for '18 is already probably out due to academics. Happens left and right for CPJ. I'm not buying that hall has nearly the issues yearly in immediate "no's" on prospects.

My honest (non-sarcastic) input to this is it truly is apples & oranges EXCEPT both coaches must deal with the academic standards. Nearly all other major recruiting issues each has are very different/distinct to the respective sports.

Some examples when comparing the 2:
- Baseball has more limited resources. Not sure the numbers... but how many "recruiters" does each sport have on staff?
- Baseball "loses" recruits (& recruiting time) to the MLB draft.

I'm not saying CPJ has it easier... even though I've grab baseball examples. I think we'd all agree recruiting athletes to be admitted & succeed academically at Tech is a tremendous challenge. Especially, if you compare what's required to our competition. Schools like UGA, Auburn, Clemson, UNC, FSU, etc. Both CDH & CPJ hold their own, I think.

 

[MWBATL]

In truth, I don't know what I would do if I were the AD. My answers have been predicated on my role purely as a fan(atic). As an AD, I accept that there is both a human side to this choice and a financial side which could modify or change the decision. But there would certainly be some heart to heart talks. I would want to hear more of a plan than Injuries to turn this trend around. My own suspicion is we are recruiting the wrong kids. Too many non-contact hitters. HR's may get the girls, but they don't necessarily make for winning baseball if you K 10 (or more) times every single game. Too many simple flame-throwers and not enough pitchers being recruited. A 90 mph fast ball ain't nothin' if you don't have location. Well, it may work against Liberty, but it won't work against UNC. You need location, pitching skills, a few junk pitchers to go with flame throwers to keep the opposition off balance. We are all quick to throw Howell under the bus, but in truth it may not be Howell's fault. I don't know. It may be that Hall is recruiting the wrong kind of pitchers. We all bemoan the walks, HBP, and WP's. I hate 'em! But if Howell is trying to teach these kids about pitching to locations and spots, and they haven't ever had to don anything before now except throw it hard down the middle of the plate, then I would blame recruiting, not as much coaching. I am not saying that's the case. i am too far away to know one way or the other. I am saying there are discussions to be had here. Serious ones.

 

[up state jacket]

Fluky?! There is nothing Fluky about winning a championship and I don't care what sport it is. I mean are we so blessed as a fan base to be able to discount a CHAMPIONSHIP. This is something that we rarely get to witness in any sport at Tech. As to the comparison being apples to apples, you're right, it isn't. However, to say that it is monumentally easier to win one in baseball, at Tech as opposed to football, is an exaggeration and a bit naive. The ACC has been a baseball conference far longer than it has been a football conference.

Not hardly, to win championships you have to have talent and luck.

I can agree with that, but I still consider winning the championship a huge feat and am not willing to downplay it or write it off as a fluke.

Fluke may be strong, but it is an indictment that a team can play well enough to win the conference tourney, but can't finish above .500 in conf play. Can't have it both ways. Either they greatly underachieved during the season or played up to potential in the acc tournament or greatly overachieved during the acc tournament. All scenarios are bad for the status of the program. Hot then cold is no way to manage.

 

[up state jacket]

My honest (non-sarcastic) input to this is it truly is apples & oranges EXCEPT both coaches must deal with the academic standards. Nearly all other major recruiting issues each has are very different/distinct to the respective sports.

Some examples when comparing the 2:
- Baseball has more limited resources. Not sure the numbers... but how many "recruiters" does each sport have on staff?
- Baseball "loses" recruits (& recruiting time) to the MLB draft.

I'm not saying CPJ has it easier... even though I've grab baseball examples. I think we'd all agree recruiting athletes to be admitted & succeed academically at Tech is a tremendous challenge. Especially, if you compare what's required to our competition. Schools like UGA, Auburn, Clemson, UNC, FSU, etc. Both CDH & CPJ hold their own, I think.

Recruiting top notch baseball talent has never been a problem at Tech. Historically baseball recruits tend be better prepared to handle Tech's academic challenges compared to other male sports. Baseball typically recruits GA fairly heavy which allows players to benefit from HOPE or other grants afforded to them. I am not sure why is so difficult to admit Danny's is past his prime and he isn't getting it back. This isn't a one or two year slump. He is killing what he created. Yes Danny and Jim have both been very instrumental in the building and maintaining a top class program. And both should be commended for it, but that doesn't change where the program is today.

 

[Sideways]

I agree that firing people isn't necessarily "easy" and I would imagine that most of us do not enjoy the process. But in my experience, not making the move when necessary is infinitely worse...for everyone concerned. A guy hanging on past his time runs the risk of tarnishing his legacy and undoing the good will he has accumulated. As true in business as it is in sports.

One of the hardest things to do in this life is knowing when to quit. Bobby Bowden, Joe Paterno, Bear Bryant, all needed to go out gracefully long before they did. Their legacy was tarnished in each case (to a much less extent with the Bear but he was a very sick man) . Dodd had the good sense to know when to leave coaching as did Wallace Wade, Daryl Royal, Steve Spurrier, and many others. Is Coach Hall in that category? I do not pretend to know the answer but he really needs to take a good hard look at himself and do what is best for him and Georgia Tech. He has nothing to prove to anyone and can leave on his terms IF he chooses to do so.

 

[RoosterJacket]

One of the other sites is saying a GT coach resigned after the game Thursday. It was vague, but sounded like it might be Prince--the hitting coach who has been at GT for quite a while.