Question about recruiting

[stech81]

I think recruiting is important but so is coaching ( And I don't want to hear any bad think about our coaching that is not the question )
What makes a kid decide to go to a school , I always thought it was more won loss record but now I don't think that is the case. I'm fine with how we are doing this year if we can sign them.

I looked at FSU and Tennessee ratings the past 4 years and this year and looking at it with their won loss record I don't understand how they do so good, location , easy majors , putting players in the NFL or women on campus.

Tennessee

Year Recruiting won loss record
2020 23 2-5
2019 13 5-7
2018 21 4-8
2017 17
2016 14

FSU
2020 13 3-4
2019 19 5-7
2018 11 7-6
2017 6
2016 3

Looking at these recruiting number both these teams should be in the top 10. I may can understand Tennessee being in the SEC everyone builds up the SEC,
So how important is recruiting is it better to get 4 and 5 stars players if they are overrated .

 

[4shotB]

"physical superiority cancels out all other theories" . "Jimmy's and Joe's beat X's and O's". Like many platitudes, they exist for a reason.

Talent alone as your post indicates isn't enough and may not overcome coaching deficiencies. But your talent sets a limit on what your program can achieve. The best programs (the ones that are always in the hunt for the playoffs do both things equally well. And are at places that have the resources to ensure that the coaching and recruiting are done well. It is a 3 leggest stool imo.

My other thought and I have said it elsewhere, a total class ranking is not in and of itself a good indicator. If you sign 20 Trevor Lawrence or Calvin Johnsons or Herschel Walkers this year you are going to have a great recruiting class on paper....but 4 years down the road you are going to have a bad team. There is a synergy element that isn't taken into account - are you recruiting well at all positions.?I think FSU and Miami have had really bad OL's these past few years that have undone some of their skill position recruiting according to some experts. Or ttake Miami yesterday, the lack of recruiting 1 position (FG kicker) cost them a game. All needs have to be met, not just a few or some.

 

[hotpocketsyum]

Recruiting is extremely relative. Arkansas managed to pull of a top 25 recruiting class last year, but still managed to have the worst one in their division. If the best players won every game, they would still lose all 6 divisional games that they have. Def won't get an overall top 25 finish with 6 losses

Florida State had Jimbos entire staff mail it in for the last little bit due to his fued with the admin and Texas a and m job looming. I read somewhere that after the first few games, they didn't even talk to the recruits. How long do you think you'd have a girlfriend/wife if you didn't talk for 6 months
For Miami, they got off sanctions all but two or three years ago, for whats seemed to be the longest stretch in some 20 odd some years. They still have a lot of the "U" mentality and perception of being elite, but they still have a damaged brand from whats seemed like a never ending cycle.

At the end of the day, games are decided in the trenches. Can't run if your OL gets no push and they can wait till someone gets open if your DL gets no push.

FSU has recruited skill positions like no other (like honestly, how many NFL guys can you name there and at WR and RB?) During the Alabama game a few years back though (their real hard decline point) they showed a graphic comparing the OL and DL of the two. FSU's OL was entirely three stars. Bamas DL was all 4 and 5 stars. Good luck there seminoles.

Biggest example of all comes from Athens. During Richt's entire tenure, he managed to pull in 2 top 50 overall offensive lineman. Kirby is about to pull in his 10th in 1/3 the time window. Its why they seem like they won't fall from the top any time soon. They got the power in the trenches to make their skill players make the play their starts dictate they should.

At the end of the day, you are entirely right, 4 and 5 star players can be overrated, but they are right a helluva lot more than they are wrong.

 

[684Bee]

Of course coaching is important, but don’t let a couple of outliers make you think recruiting is less important.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Call me crazy but recruiting ranking are not designed to provide anyone a relative ranking of all the players in the universe capabilities against each other so that fans can know if their team is doing good, bad or indifferent. It’s to SELL SUBSCRIPTIONS AND GENERATE AD REVENUE.

If you bombard the internet with for example, the mutts recruited 19 average players, what mutt fan wants to read that. You overrate 18-20 guys and make them 4-5 stars, you got thousands of barking idiots paying $100/yr. The 3-4 players that are not 4 -5 stars, the log on arguing about why that player should be ranked higher, “oh yeah he fits a role”, etc.

I know there’s players out there that are clearly dominant over the others & they’re legitimate 5 stars. Most of the mutt 5 stars, are not really 5 stars but revenue bait. It’s why when the chips are down, the Bammer or Clemp player tend to make a play & the mutt craps the bed. Good player, yes. Dominant player, not so much.

GT on the other hand, our targets start at 3 star except those that are clearly much better than the average bear. If elite teams pile on, well maybe a 3 star gets a bump but generally ONLY if they think that player will flip from us to someone else. GT just doesn’t generate revenue in the recruiting services. Essentially a GT 3 star is a low revenue generating prospect. There is also no advantage to making a GT player 4 star, because it’s not like GT fans are going to run to push the subscription button. We’re a cheap, discerning fanbase which is what recruiting services hate. Money talks, BS walks. They want people that will just throw good money after bad. That’s not in a normal GT fan’s DNA.

 

[stech81]

Ok is it more important to have and balanced recruiting class even if it means you pass on a 4 star player who plays a position you are loaded in and sign that 3 star OL or DL ?

 

[4shotB]

Ok is it more important to have and balanced recruiting class even if it means you pass on a 4 star player who plays a position you are loaded in and sign that 3 star OL or DL ?

IMO, yes. Everything starts in the trenches. It is a difficult place to be in when you are expecting young (FR or R-FR) linemen in your two deep to make a difference. I say keep the pipeline full of linemen at all times and let them get bigger and stronger. In an ideal world, your lineman should be contributing as a soph but starting as upperclassmen unless he is a "once in a blue moon" type player. This is a case where I prefer the "get old, stay old" philosophy. Getting a RB or WR who can make an impact as a true FR isn't that difficult.

 

[4shotB]

One other thing to add stech81....guys our age forget the difference 1 or two years makes physically at that age.Actually, we forget a lot of things! The difference between a 60 and 61 yo is negligible but can be the difference between 2" and 25 lbs. of muscle when comparing a 17 year old to an 18 year old.

I have taught HS at 2 different schools since retiring from my engineering career. Both schools have experienced state championships and losing seasons during my tenure while the coaching staffs have stayed constant. The single biggest indicator of success in HS (again imo) is the number of seniors on the roster. The additional experience in training, coaching and playing under the lights is invaluable. I am friends with both HC's and they agree with my theory. Since neither school recruits the coaches live with the seemingly random ebb and flow of talent in the local area.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

In my experience, players typically commit to a culture, a coaching staff, and a school. Whether we won 11 games or 3, we didn’t see much difference in recruiting classes.

 

[stech81]

One other thing to add stech81....guys our age forget the difference 1 or two years makes physically at that age.Actually, we forget a lot of things! The difference between a 60 and 61 yo is negligible but can be the difference between 2" and 25 lbs. of muscle when comparing a 17 year old to an 18 year old.

I have taught HS at 2 different schools since retiring from my engineering career. Both schools have experienced state championships and losing seasons during my tenure while the coaching staffs have stayed constant. The single biggest indicator of success in HS (again imo) is the number of seniors on the roster. The additional experience in training, coaching and playing under the lights is invaluable. I am friends with both HC's and they agree with my theory. Since neither school recruits the coaches live with the seemingly random ebb and flow of talent in the local area.

Forget I don't forget what were we talking about

 

[DvilleJacket]

Tenn could have a top 15 class, but 8 SEC schools could finish ahead of them and have better coaches.

 

[WearGoldToGameDays]

Younger guy checking in. I feel like brand and school image has a lot more weight than you guys are giving it credit for. uGa, Texas, FSU, and even Tennessee will be more attract destinations for recruits than medium name schools like GT, UCLA, Texas Tech, Michigan State, Miss State with good coaching.

 

[Boaty1]

Younger guy checking in. I feel like brand and school image has a lot more weight than you guys are giving it credit for. uGa, Texas, FSU, and even Tennessee will be more attract destinations for recruits than medium name schools like GT, UCLA, Texas Tech, Michigan State, Miss State with good coaching.

Agreed. But in keeping with your terminology why in the world is Tennessee not a medium name school? They suck and have sucked for quite a while now. Younger kids have no recollection of UT as anything other than a doormat.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Younger guy checking in. I feel like brand and school image has a lot more weight than you guys are giving it credit for. uGa, Texas, FSU, and even Tennessee will be more attract destinations for recruits than medium name schools like GT, UCLA, Texas Tech, Michigan State, Miss State with good coaching.

This really doesn't have much to do with the topic of this thread, but I was struck by your name here, and I LOVE IT !!!. Did you see the Penn State game last night. I assume there were some Mich fans somewhere in the stands, but what I saw was 100% of the Penn State fans were wearing something white. Wouldn't you love it if 100% of our fans would wear gold to the games. People say that gold just doesn't "pop", but when everybody is wearing a color, no matter what color it is, it ALWAYS "pops".

 

[gthxxxx]

I know little about recruiting services, but I would assume that they only provide metrics evaluating an individual, which would be a lot more definitive if it was a 1v1 matchup from an even starting point. However, football is a team sport, where proper (or improper) tactics and execution often create numerous brief situations of 1v2 or 1v0 matchups with different starting handicaps.

 

[WearGoldToGameDays]

Agreed. But in keeping with your terminology why in the world is Tennessee not a medium name school? They suck and have sucked for quite a while now. Younger kids have no recollection of UT as anything other than a doormat.

they are the biggest school in the state, de facto number one. It’s where all the cool kids (non recruits) want to go. Recruits growing up see their logo everywhere, they’re the school with all the media coverage and glory. Helps that the in state alternative is private school Vandy.

 

[WearGoldToGameDays]

This really doesn't have much to do with the topic of this thread, but I was struck by your name here, and I LOVE IT !!!. Did you see the Penn State game last night. I assume there were some Mich fans somewhere in the stands, but what I saw was 100% of the Penn State fans were wearing something white. Wouldn't you love it if 100% of our fans would wear gold to the games. People say that gold just doesn't "pop", but when everybody is wearing a color, no matter what color it is, it ALWAYS "pops".

Every game should be a goldout, expect the whiteout

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Every game should be a goldout, expect the whiteout

HELL, YEAH. And there are those who don't think that would affect recruiting? WOW. I would say it would be a BIG BIG sell for recruits, knowing that the fans were united in their support, even in the visual sense.

 

[FightWinDrink]

You need both to win it all but because of the large talent disparity in college football compared to the NFL exceptional talent with mediocre coaching can cover up a lot more holes than exceptional coaching with mediocre talent.

it's a bigger indictment on their coaching staffs imo than anything

 

[g0lftime]

they are the biggest school in the state, de facto number one. It’s where all the cool kids (non recruits) want to go. Recruits growing up see their logo everywhere, they’re the school with all the media coverage and glory. Helps that the in state alternative is private school Vandy.

Memphis is hardly considered in the state of Tennessee so university of Memphis is the step child. Vandy is a special case. Very popular in Nashville but they have been so bad in football so long that nobody cares much. Their fan base also is small and a lot alums leave the state. Not many sidewalk fans. Those are UT fans.