Quarterback Style

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
I like Josh, but when the talent left around him, so did the winning. We got drilled by a bad Kansas team. Struggled mightily passing the ball when Thomas left. I say that not to run him down, but just to say that the opinion of Tevin would be different if the 09 team was around him.

Tevin wouldn't have been able to get Bay Bay the ball (under throw city) Dwyer would have been keyed on more as we would have been able to present a threat to get to the edge. No arm at qb means more aggressive safeties vs the run. If Tevin were the qb in 09, there wouldn't have been an "09".
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,694
Well, sure, but that goes for every play in every system in every game. We may see what we think is a quarterback scramble to the outside but is actually a quarterback draw designed to hit the edge with the OL setting like they're pass blocking. We may see a Curl-Flat-Cross-Fly combo but the players all goofed it up and it was actually supposed to be a Fly-Post-Cross-Fly combo. We may see an OLB blitz from both sides but the play call was really them sitting in a zone.

So I think some guesses are more educated than others and a series of educated guesses that cohere with each other within a given game will lend you something quite near certainty about those play calls.

That was my point. That's why it's misleading to me to say "So and so made a higher percentage of reads." Unless we know 100% for certain what the play calls were for a QB, you it's hard to make that kind of statement...or unless the coach tells us post mortem that so and so made the wrong read on every play ran in a game.

I think it was against MTSU or Clemson that people were saying Tevin should have done this or that...but a few days later after CPJ spoke to the press he said it was a called play and it was out of Tevin's hand unless he got a certain look from the D, but our guys just got beat on the play and Tevin was trapped.
 

gtg936g

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,061
Sure there would. Allen and Roddy blocking the edge opened a lot of lanes. If Tevin was a threat at the edge without Allen, he would have been a threat with him. Josh's throws were never in stride. He just put it up and let DT make a play. josh's arm
Might have been stronger, but it was no more accurate.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,694
In my very humble opinion, Tevin is one of the most underappreciated GT football players in the past few decades. That guy had minimal high major talent, but squeezed every ounce of talent God gave him. Tevin was in the perfect system for him, and worked his *** off to master this offense. I only wish the QBs more talented than him would have put as much dedication into our system as him (Jordan Luallen, Vad Lee).

He's also a QB that had very little help in terms of the talent around him. The defenses of 2011 and 2012 were historically bad and yet he never had a losing season. He didn't have a BeyBey or JD or Ant around him to help him out. To this day, he's still the only QB under CPJ at GT that's won a bowl game, and he has a record for the most rushing TDs. If you give TW the defense of last season in 2012 or 2011, we would have been a 9-11 win team both those seasons. Just my opinion, but I feel very strongly about that.
 
Last edited:

bowdon rambler

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
9
I am not sure how I feel. If Byerly is as physical as they say ,he would be an upgrade from Tevin. Tevin didnt have great speed and he wasnt physical. The only thing Tevin had was making correct reads. I would rather have Byerly than another guy that shys from contact and CANT READ. I think we have an upgraded Bback too with Laskey or Custis.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,671
Tevin wouldn't have been able to get Bay Bay the ball (under throw city) Dwyer would have been keyed on more as we would have been able to present a threat to get to the edge. No arm at qb means more aggressive safeties vs the run. If Tevin were the qb in 09, there wouldn't have been an "09".
It's pretty evident you are completely convinced of your opinion in this matter and that's fine. Just note that several posters disagree strongly with your assessment and leave it at that. Also note that no one claims that Tevin was the apex qb for this system.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
It's pretty evident you are completely convinced of your opinion in this matter and that's fine. Just note that several posters disagree strongly with your assessment and leave it at that. Also note that no one claims that Tevin was the apex qb for this system.

That settles it! Several posters wearing gold colored glasses disagree with me. I must be wrong then...
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,671
I am not sure how I feel. If Byerly is as physical as they say ,he would be an upgrade from Tevin. Tevin didnt have great speed and he wasnt physical. The only thing Tevin had was making correct reads. I would rather have Byerly than another guy that shys from contact and CANT READ. I think we have an upgraded Bback too with Laskey or Custis.
I'd like to add one more important plus to Tevin's game, he was decisive which is HUGE in this offense. For all of Vad's superior athleticism, his lack of decisiveness was his ultimate downfall. Tevin was also tough as nails and knew how to maximize a given qb run while avoiding the devastating hit at the end. I'm not so sure I can say the same about Vad on those last 3 points.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,671
That settles it! Several posters wearing gold colored glasses disagree with me. I must be wrong then...
Not what I was getting at. Part of a healthy debate is give and take. Some have the ability to recognize counterpoints from their opposition as relevant even if it's not enough to change one's mind.
 

Boomergump

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
3,260
Look, I've coached this system and several others. You can predetermine and leave a man unblocked. If a DE is slow playing, there are times when he is left unblocked. Why waste your OT on a solid call, when you can have him blocking the LBer inside. If the DE is crashing hard, again why waste your OT? You can also solid block and block the read if you are unsure about what the DE is going to do. Usually that is called when LBers are flying out or in short yardage.

You can't strictly go by if the read is blocked or not.
There is one huge clue as to whether a play was a called dive or a give option that hasn't been mentioned so far. I can only tell if I watch the game film slowed down. All of the things mentioned so far are true and they are very good clues. To me the biggest sign is where are the QBs eyes when he is handing off? If his head is turned towards the DE or the cross charging LB as he holds the ball out for the MESH, 95% chance it is a triple. If he is looking the ball into the belly of the BB it is a called dive. Just look at which way the QB's helmet is turned. That will tell you. If he is looking at the BB on a triple, then shame on him because he ain't making no read.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,671
There is one huge clue as to whether a play was a called dive or a give option that hasn't been mentioned so far. I can only tell if I watch the game film slowed down. All of the things mentioned so far are true and they are very good clues. To me the biggest sign is where are the QBs eyes when he is handing off? If his head is turned towards the DE or the cross charging LB as he holds the ball out for the MESH, 95% chance it is a triple. If he is looking the ball into the belly of the BB it is a called dive. Just look at which way the QB's helmet is turned. That will tell you. If he is looking at the BB on a triple, then shame on him because he ain't making no read.
Shouldn't he be looking at the DE all the time, even on called dives, so not to give it away?
 

Mack

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,361
Lots of variables.

1. Depends on the talent around the QB.
2. Is the home run hitter more susceptible to injury than the "game manager"? Having home run ability doesn't do you any good if you're constantly getting hurt (see Mike Vick in the NFL).
3. Who knows the offense better? If they both know the offense equally, you take the guy with the ability to make a big play on any given snap.
I agree go with the talent around him...I like the guy who can run the offense and read the keys and makes good decisions...of course who doesnt like guys like this?
 

Mack

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,361
Shouldn't he be looking at the DE all the time, even on called dives, so not to give it away?
I agree my friend but even Dodd said when they ran the belly the qb would pre determine in the huddle what they would do with the ball. One thing is for sure ..if you can look at DL and DE and make a good decision you have solved most of the option.Most special qbs like Ham,Watts and others were such good athletes they could be off a tick and still make a play due to their ability.
 
Messages
2,077
Tevin actually had some clutch moments that get forgotten because he screwed the pooch later in the same game. What is also forgotten is that if the defense had held he wouldn't have been asked to save the day a second time. I'll always remember that long run he had against Clemson at BDS at night in '11. He ran the triple to the right and fake pitched the defender out of his shorts then ran the sideline for 50+. Vad should have had 10 of those last year with his talent.
He brought us back against Virginia Tech twice, only to lose.
 

Mack

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,361
He brought us back against Virginia Tech twice, only to lose.
Agree with yall.......if we had a decent not great but decent defense we would not be having all the discussions on PJ and our football team..we have scored enough to win but until this year........we didnt stop anybody and that puts a big strain on a offense especially the passing game from the option.TW did a good job and if he had a stronger arm maybe things would have been different but we felt that Vad would be able to run the offense like TW and throw like Payton Manning......it didnt happen.TW would not lose a game for you but his team had trouble coming from behind since folks knew we didnt pass much so they killed our running game.Defense cures a lot of ills.
 

jwsavhGT

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,372
Location
Savannah,GA
Well, sure, but that goes for every play in every system in every game. We may see what we think is a quarterback scramble to the outside but is actually a quarterback draw designed to hit the edge with the OL setting like they're pass blocking. We may see a Curl-Flat-Cross-Fly combo but the players all goofed it up and it was actually supposed to be a Fly-Post-Cross-Fly combo. We may see an OLB blitz from both sides but the play call was really them sitting in a zone.

So I think some guesses are more educated than others and a series of educated guesses that cohere with each other within a given game will lend you something quite near certainty about those play calls.
I sometimes think I'm back in Statistics class...I read the words but just can't grasp the concept. Nothing wrong with the presentation or presenter - just me. Not derailing the thread - just making an observation about how a football game is played & managed is more involved than it appears to the casual observer.
 

Mack

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,361
I sometimes think I'm back in Statistics class...I read the words but just can't grasp the concept. Nothing wrong with the presentation or presenter - just me. Not derailing the thread - just making an observation about how a football game is played & managed is more involved than it appears to the casual observer.
Well flat lost on this one.Hope somebody can fix this for folks who know little about stats.......my point is no matter who we have played at qb ..we score enough to win but until this year,and we were better not great,our defense let us down and sorry to say offense could not score quickly so we were at a loss to get back in a game .
 
Messages
2,077
TW was not a good qb, Move on.

Since the arrival of Paul Johnson, each and every quarterback that has taken snaps in this system has been roundly criticized. Have we forgotten the hue and cry from the Peanut Gallery that Jaybo Shaw should be playing ahead of a healthy Nesbitt in 2008? Over and over we heard Nesbitt is not good in his reads, that he can't pass, etc. It seems that we have not had an ADEQUATE option quarterback leading the team yet. We are still seeking a Ricky Dobbs or Tracy Ham to run this offense. Now Justin Thomas gets his turn in the barrel. Predictably, I predict the fan base will not be thrilled because I don't think Justin = Ham.
 
Top