Quarterback Style

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
Tevin hateters gonna hate irrashionally.

Trevin lost that game all by himself... It was like hey why should the other offensive players be on the field...it is all Tevin anyways.

So defenses didnt key on the B-back, because Tevin couldn't get to the edge? Safeties didn't cheat in to stop the run, because Tevin had a noodle arm? Yep, we were just fine with Tevin at qb.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
Yea because the defense giving up 49 points was completely Tevin's fault. :banghead:

No, the fact that we struggled to put up 28 points on a bad SunBelt team was though. Not to mention that Tevin got extra possessions due to the quick scoring that our defense gave up.
 

gtg936g

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,134
Tevin skilled? We lost to Middle Tennessee with that skill and put up a losing record vs BCS teams. Tevin was terrible, but better at the reads than the other qbs, although it was noted often that Tevin missed a lot of reads. Please, no more game managers.

I stand by my post. I actually said skilled at the technical aspect of our offense. Compare the number of missed reads by Tevin to Josh in their respective Senior seasons and you will find Tevin's percentage of missed reads lower. Granted Josh was hurt during his, but the numbers are what they are.
 

croberts

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
818
Tevin skilled? We lost to Middle Tennessee with that skill and put up a losing record vs BCS teams. Tevin was terrible, but better at the reads than the other qbs, although it was noted often that Tevin missed a lot of reads. Please, no more game managers.
Looks like you opened a can of worms on this statement. Tevin developed into a respectable qb . It become obvious last year why he was the starter over Vad to me. JT will become very respectable as well.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,726
I stand by my post. I actually said skilled at the technical aspect of our offense. Compare the number of missed reads by Tevin to Josh in their respective Senior seasons and you will find Tevin's percentage of missed reads lower. Granted Josh was hurt during his, but the numbers are what they are.

Do you know what Tevin or Josh's reads were supposed to be? How do you know their missed read percentages?

As fans, I don't think ANY of us really know what reads the QB is supposed to make unless we were in the huddle. How can you tell a called dive from a dive off a give read? How can you tell a called QB keeper off the midline? Unless you're privy to all the calls, it's hard to tell who missed a read unless CPJ flat out states it.
 

gtg936g

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,134
Do you know what Tevin or Josh's reads were supposed to be? How do you know their missed read percentages?

As fans, I don't think ANY of us really know what reads the QB is supposed to make unless we were in the huddle. How can you tell a called dive from a dive off a give read? How can you tell a called QB keeper off the midline? Unless you're privy to all the calls, it's hard to tell who missed a read unless CPJ flat out states it.

Generally you can tell by who the unblocked player is. It becomes more difficult if two players are left unblocked by an error on the line, but our guys are coached to hand it to the BB if the blocking scheme runs amuck.

The way I generally evaluate the read is whether or not the unblocked player (the read) makes the tackle or significant contact with the person carrying the ball.
 
Messages
2,077
Do you know what Tevin or Josh's reads were supposed to be? How do you know their missed read percentages?

As fans, I don't think ANY of us really know what reads the QB is supposed to make unless we were in the huddle. How can you tell a called dive from a dive off a give read? How can you tell a called QB keeper off the midline? Unless you're privy to all the calls, it's hard to tell who missed a read unless CPJ flat out states it.
All of that information is readily available at www.missedcollegereads.com
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,726
Generally you can tell by who the unblocked player is. It becomes more difficult if two players are left unblocked by an error on the line, but our guys are coached to hand it to the BB if the blocking scheme runs amuck.

The way I generally evaluate the read is whether or not the unblocked player (the read) makes the tackle or significant contact with the person carrying the ball.

So that's why Vad handed it to the BB so much last season...
 

gtg936g

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,134
So that's why Vad handed it to the BB so much last season...

We did not run as much option with Vad as we were given credit for. The Georgia game stands out as one where we would just run the called dive, or some variation over and over because we were winning the LOS. When Vad did run the option he would not make the second read commit, and then he would string the play out.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
Do you know what Tevin or Josh's reads were supposed to be? How do you know their missed read percentages?

As fans, I don't think ANY of us really know what reads the QB is supposed to make unless we were in the huddle. How can you tell a called dive from a dive off a give read? How can you tell a called QB keeper off the midline? Unless you're privy to all the calls, it's hard to tell who missed a read unless CPJ flat out states it.

Bingo! There is no possible way to know if its a predetermined call from CPJ unless you hear the actual call!!!
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,726
We did not run as much option with Vad as we were given credit for. The Georgia game stands out as one where we would just run the called dive, or some variation over and over because we were winning the LOS. When Vad did run the option he would not make the second read commit, and then he would string the play out.

It would be an interesting study to go back and chart Vad's reads. There were many times I remembered Vad didn't have any options (parden the pun) after the snap because the DL or LB were already in the backfield blowing up the reads.

As another poster pointed out, directly from assistant coaches, our blocking was attrocious last year and Vad was getting beat up back there.

http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/johnson-takes-blame-georgia-techs-struggles

"Clearly we didn't do a good job of explaining it to our kids because out of the seven times we did it, we blocked it wrong five," Johnson said. "So that comes back to us. If they block it wrong once or they get run over, that's them, but when you're not blocking the right people, that comes back to me."
 

gtg936g

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,134
It would be an interesting study to go back and chart Vad's reads. There were many times I remembered Vad didn't have any options (parden the pun) after the snap because the DL or LB were already in the backfield blowing up the reads.

As another poster pointed out, directly from assistant coaches, our blocking was attrocious last year and Vad was getting beat up back there.

http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/johnson-takes-blame-georgia-techs-struggles

Yeah, in my mind it is hard to fault the QB if the line misses a block. The read really does not matter at that point because there is no numbers advantage. Usually at that point it is best just to hand it off and hope that the BB can get a few tough yards.


@nodawgs If the DE is unblocked, the QB hands it to the BB and the DE tackles the BB, the read was bad. Likewise if the QB keeps and the DE tackles the QB. It is not rocket science if you have the time, and really enjoy watching option football in slow motion.
 

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
Featured Member
Messages
656
It's not impossible to differentiate between a called dive/keep/pitch and an option. Some of us may get it wrong sometimes, but that doesn't mean we're always wrong.
If we're not blocking the EMLOS or the next guy out, it's almost certainly a triple option.
Is it possible that CPJ could tell our line and backs to avoid blocking those two players but still give a pre-determined call for the QB?
Sure, but that'd be pretty foolish, IMO.

Sometimes we'll leave the EMLOS unblocked but hammer the next guy out with an A-Back. I call that our "BB Blast" play and it's a designed give.
Sometimes we'll fake to the BB (who will cut the End) and double option off the next guy out - it looks like a triple but it's not.

From my perspective, Vad was not a terrible triple option reader. He was about average there with some real highlights that showed his potential. His triple option woes were more related to the fact that he did not really commit to his keep reads and get north-south. As has been noted, a long run of 21 yards by a tall, fast triple option QB is indicative of some problems.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
@nodawgs If the DE is unblocked, the QB hands it to the BB and the DE tackles the BB, the read was bad. Likewise if the QB keeps and the DE tackles the QB. It is not rocket science if you have the time, and really enjoy watching option football in slow motion.

Look, I've coached this system and several others. You can predetermine and leave a man unblocked. If a DE is slow playing, there are times when he is left unblocked. Why waste your OT on a solid call, when you can have him blocking the LBer inside. If the DE is crashing hard, again why waste your OT? You can also solid block and block the read if you are unsure about what the DE is going to do. Usually that is called when LBers are flying out or in short yardage.

You can't strictly go by if the read is blocked or not.
 

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
Featured Member
Messages
656
nodawgs is right that you can't glean too much from watching just one guy. But watching two guys will generally be more illuminating.
 

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
Featured Member
Messages
656
Basically, the gist is, unless you know the play call...you can make an educated guess but you don't know with certainty what the call is.

Well, sure, but that goes for every play in every system in every game. We may see what we think is a quarterback scramble to the outside but is actually a quarterback draw designed to hit the edge with the OL setting like they're pass blocking. We may see a Curl-Flat-Cross-Fly combo but the players all goofed it up and it was actually supposed to be a Fly-Post-Cross-Fly combo. We may see an OLB blitz from both sides but the play call was really them sitting in a zone.

So I think some guesses are more educated than others and a series of educated guesses that cohere with each other within a given game will lend you something quite near certainty about those play calls.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,992
While this discussion about how precisely we can tell whether the unblocked DL was an option read is interesting, the fact remains that it began because somebody blamed TW for our W-L record for games which our defense clearly lost. When a guy doesn't admit that he was posting with more emotion than sense, further discussion is likely fruitless.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
While this discussion about how precisely we can tell whether the unblocked DL was an option read is interesting, the fact remains that it began because somebody blamed TW for our W-L record for games which our defense clearly lost. When a guy doesn't admit that he was posting with more emotion than sense, further discussion is likely fruitless.

TW was not a good qb, Move on.
 
Top