Quarterback Style

Boomergump

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Since the arrival of Paul Johnson, each and every quarterback that has taken snaps in this system has been roundly criticized. Have we forgotten the hue and cry from the Peanut Gallery that Jaybo Shaw should be playing ahead of a healthy Nesbitt in 2008? Over and over we heard Nesbitt is not good in his reads, that he can't pass, etc. It seems that we have not had an ADEQUATE option quarterback leading the team yet. We are still seeking a Ricky Dobbs or Tracy Ham to run this offense. Now Justin Thomas gets his turn in the barrel. Predictably, I predict the fan base will not be thrilled because I don't think Justin = Ham.
I also find it interesting how they are retroactively seen in a more positive light after their tenure is over as well. It was pretty hard to find people who appreciated TW while he was playing. Now that he is gone, the tenor of the comments regarding him are far more positive on average. No player will ever be perfect, but I think it is safe to say we have yet to deploy a QB with the entire package. Here is hoping.
 

gtg936g

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I also find it interesting how they are retroactively seen in a more positive light after their tenure is over as well. It was pretty hard to find people who appreciated TW while he was playing. Now that he is gone, the tenor of the comments regarding him are far more positive on average. No player will ever be perfect, but I think it is safe to say we have yet to deploy a QB with the entire package. Here is hoping.

In your opinion and analysis, do you think Tevin was better at making the correct read than Josh? A QB that can run the option and make accurate throws is definitely something that could be a game changer for our offense. I think part of Tevin's increased favor is not realizing what you had until it is gone.
 

Squints

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I also find it interesting how they are retroactively seen in a more positive light after their tenure is over as well. It was pretty hard to find people who appreciated TW while he was playing. Now that he is gone, the tenor of the comments regarding him are far more positive on average. No player will ever be perfect, but I think it is safe to say we have yet to deploy a QB with the entire package. Here is hoping.
I think you have to look at who's posting when it comes to that. The people who speak positive of Tevin generally have been the whole time. The people who complained are still complaining they're just complaining about something else. So naturally the tenor is gonna change.
 

Boomergump

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I think you have to look at who's posting when it comes to that. The people who speak positive of Tevin generally have been the whole time. The people who complained are still complaining they're just complaining about something else. So naturally the tenor is gonna change.
You are probably right.
 

Boomergump

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In your opinion and analysis, do you think Tevin was better at making the correct read than Josh? A QB that can run the option and make accurate throws is definitely something that could be a game changer for our offense. I think part of Tevin's increased favor is not realizing what you had until it is gone.
I think TW was a better option QB than JN and have said that consistently for a couple years now, but mostly on another board. I also think he was a better passer, albeit limited. Don't get me wrong, I loved JN and everything he did for GT. JN was a tougher runner and better in short yardage situations than TW, but overall, I'll take Tevin.
 

Mack

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Since the arrival of Paul Johnson, each and every quarterback that has taken snaps in this system has been roundly criticized. Have we forgotten the hue and cry from the Peanut Gallery that Jaybo Shaw should be playing ahead of a healthy Nesbitt in 2008? Over and over we heard Nesbitt is not good in his reads, that he can't pass, etc. It seems that we have not had an ADEQUATE option quarterback leading the team yet. We are still seeking a Ricky Dobbs or Tracy Ham to run this offense. Now Justin Thomas gets his turn in the barrel. Predictably, I predict the fan base will not be thrilled because I don't think Justin = Ham.
Agree with you but it certainly helps to have a qb that can run the offense and has run it in HS.yeah JT will be in barrel for first few games or more.
 

nodawgs

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You know...if you can't find a qb that can run the veer option under center, then you probably shouldn't run the veer option under center. It's been 7 years and we still haven't had a true option qb. Just sayin'
 

Mack

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You know...if you can't find a qb that can run the veer option under center, then you probably shouldn't run the veer option under center. It's been 7 years and we still haven't had a true option qb. Just sayin'
Sort of feel same way...........then another problem is why not find a guy who has done this type offense rather than take a good athlete and try and make him option qb......makes little sense to me...........when Ga goes after a qb you can be sure they want to find one that can above else throw the ball and if you are not option qb in HS it seems to be tough to make one in four years.
 

gtg936g

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I have not seen very many freshmen QBs be extraordinary right out of high school. I think the complexity of D1 offenses compared to high school offenses is greater than most realize. Regardless of the scheme.
 

nodawgs

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I have not seen very many freshmen QBs be extraordinary right out of high school. I think the complexity of D1 offenses compared to high school offenses is greater than most realize. Regardless of the scheme.

10 years ago yes, but not today. Look at all of the qbs that have torn it up in their first year in the system lately. Johnny Manziel, Nick Marshall, Marcus Mariota, and Jameis Winston to name a few. These are complex offenses to defend, but simplified for the qb. It's the way offenses are designed today that makes the difference.
 

gtg936g

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10 years ago yes, but not today. Look at all of the qbs that have torn it up in their first year in the system lately. Johnny Manziel, Nick Marshall, Marcus Mariota, and Jameis Winston to name a few. These are complex offenses to defend, but simplified for the qb. It's the way offenses are designed today that makes the difference.


All the QBs you named above either redshirted or did not play QB in their first season.

Mariotta redshirted in 2011
Winston redshirted in 2012
Marshall was a CB
Manziel redshirted in 2011
 

potatohead

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10 years ago yes, but not today. Look at all of the qbs that have torn it up in their first year in the system lately. Johnny Manziel, Nick Marshall, Marcus Mariota, and Jameis Winston to name a few. These are complex offenses to defend, but simplified for the qb. It's the way offenses are designed today that makes the difference.

Ok, so you just named two heisman winners and two future candidates.

Those four are special by every measurement and probably shouldn't be used as an example of what "most freshman can do"
 

nodawgs

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Ok, so you just named two heisman winners and two future candidates.

Those four are special by every measurement and probably shouldn't be used as an example of what "most freshman can do"

None would be recognized as special (at least not this early in their careers) if they didn't play in a qb friendly system. Look at Taj Boyd. He was about to be labeled as a dud disappointment, until Chad Morris brought in his offense. All of the sudden Boyd's productivity went through the roof. Senior Bowl comes around and Taj goes back to a conventional system and looks AWFUL!

Nick Marshall was not deemed good enough to play qb at most schools. He comes in without going through Spring practice and wins the job with only 3 and half weeks of practice and ran it comfortably.
 

nodawgs

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All the QBs you named above either redshirted or did not play QB in their first season.

Mariotta redshirted in 2011
Winston redshirted in 2012
Marshall was a CB
Manziel redshirted in 2011

And so did Vad and JT, but neither look as comfortable in our system as those guys in their systems. Manziel redshirted in Mike Sherman's last year, so it's not like he had a year to learn Summlin's system. Nick Marshall stepped in with 3 1/2 weeks of practice in Malzahn's system and looked comfortable. The learning curve for CPJ's and traditional systems is way to big compared to what is out there now. Mariotta started as a true freshman I believe.
 

potatohead

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None would be recognized as special (at least not this early in their careers) if they didn't play in a qb friendly system. Look at Taj Boyd. He was about to be labeled as a dud disappointment, until Chad Morris brought in his offense. All of the sudden Boyd's productivity went through the roof. Senior Bowl comes around and Taj goes back to a conventional system and looks AWFUL!

Nick Marshall was not deemed good enough to play qb at most schools. He comes in without going through Spring practice and wins the job with only 3 and half weeks of practice and ran it comfortably.

I don't disagree in the context of our offense and what we've done, or have not done in our case.

I'm just saying those guys are pretty legit and not really indicative of your typical freshman or underclassman. They could athlete their way out of breakdowns or missed reads. That's kinda sorta why I want to see thomas out there...
 

gtg936g

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And so did Vad and JT, but neither look as comfortable in our system as those guys in their systems. Manziel redshirted in Mike Sherman's last year, so it's not like he had a year to learn Summlin's system. Nick Marshall stepped in with 3 1/2 weeks of practice in Malzahn's system and looked comfortable. The learning curve for CPJ's and traditional systems is way to big compared to what is out there now. Mariotta started as a true freshman I believe.

I am only saying that none of the guys you listed started as true freshmen at the QB spot, which was the point I was making in my earlier post. I would agree that they all became really good QBs, but they did not just step on the field and dominate. There is a huge learning curve between HS and D1 college offensive schemes.

Marshall got kicked out of UGA, went to another college where he played QB, and then wen to Auburn. According to Malzahn last year after the UGA game Marshall had only mastered a small portion of his offense.

Mariotta redshirted in 2011 and then went 12-1 in 2012.
 

gtg936g

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Let me throw this out there for discussion as well. Many people say that we need a true option QB in our offense, yet we do not recruit option QBs, we recruit athletes and try to make them an option QB. I am not really sure how you can define what is/ is not an option QB unless you really know how a QB was coached in HS. Most of the HS coaches I knew coached the option element by asking the QB to decide whether or not the read could make the tackle on the dive guy, if yes they would be coached to pull the ball and make the next read, if no they would just give it off. In HS this simple question/answer was all the QB had to consider in real time (or pre-snap), and due to the wide disparity of talent at the HS level it generally worked. This is not how CPJ coaches the option. There are pre/post snap reads as well as a specific way to run at a defender and way to read the defender. Unless things have greatly changed, I do not think we will find many QBs that are coached to run the option the way we approach it, so there will be a lot of retraining/learning in our system.

A good read that I think I have posted before:
http://www.footballxos.com/download...bone-offense/Option-Thoughts-Paul-Johnson.doc

http://www.footballxos.com/download...002-Georgia-Southern-Offense-Paul-Johnson.pdf
 
Last edited:

Mack

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Let me throw this out there for discussion as well. Many people say that we need a true option QB in our offense, yet we do not recruit option QBs, we recruit athletes and try to make them an option QB. I am not really sure how you can define what is/ is not an option QB unless you really know how a QB was coached in HS. Most of the HS coaches I knew coached the option element by asking the QB to decide whether or not the read could make the tackle on the dive guy, if yes they would be coached to pull the ball and make the next read, if no they would just give it off. In HS this simple question/answer was all the QB had to consider in real time (or pre-snap), and due to the wide disparity of talent at the HS level it generally worked. This is not how CPJ coaches the option. There are pre/post snap reads as well as a specific way to run at a defender and way to read the defender. Unless things have greatly changed, I do not think we will find many QBs that are coached to run the option the way we approach it, so there will be a lot of retraining/learning in our system. YOU are so spot on.

A good read that I think I have posted before:
http://www.footballxos.com/download...bone-offense/Option-Thoughts-Paul-Johnson.doc

http://www.footballxos.com/download...002-Georgia-Southern-Offense-Paul-Johnson.pdf
 
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