Previous Offense and Recruiting

iceeater1969

iceeater1969

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GTpdm said:
As far as the "losing 4 out of 5 to Duke" issue, let's keep in mind how the scheduling went just before the Duke-GT game over the last 5 years:

2014 @ GT (L) — Duke: bye — GT: vs.Miami
2015 @Duke (L) — Duke: vs.#23 Northwestern — GT: @#11 Notre Dame
2016 @GT (W) — Duke: bye — GT: bye
2017 @Duke (L) — Duke: @Army — GT: vs.#24 VT
2018 @GT (L) — Duke: bye — GT: @ Louisville

In every one of those four losses, the random vagaries of scheduling(*) managed to hand Duke an advantage over us: two flat-out byes, giving them 2 weeks to heal up and game-plan against us; a tuneup game against another option team, again giving them 2 weeks to prepare; and a game where we played a top-15 team on the road while they played a top-25 team at home. Over those five years, every single time they played us in BDS, they came in with two weeks of rest(**). The only time the bye didn't help them was the time when we had the extra week, too. On the flip side, both times we've gone into Somnambulist Stadium, we were coming off a game against a ranked team.

So it's not exactly like we were losing to Duke on a level playing field. If you were to reverse all of those advantages, it's not unreasonable to guess that you'd also reverse the W-L ratio.

(*) a.k.a. Cutcliffe's compromising photographs of someone in the ACC Front Office.
(**) How much do you want to bet that Duke gets another bye before they play us in 2020?

[Edit-1: @iceeater1969: I (respectfully) disagree that coaching was the only factor in all 5 games.]

[Edit-2: looking back even further, I see that Duke also had a bye before they played us in 2012—so that's four consecutive byes before they played us at BDS.]
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You brought lots of content that I agree was a factor beyond coaching. The bye thing was a factor at Duke. This says alot about how well our ad is at politics.

(My main point is the option does much better against teams that don't see us each year . I saw it posted that we were winners in every cross conference game.)

The 2014 run was a stroke of genius. We played elite factory teams and were dominant on the field. Our last 4 games against elite factory schools ( Clemson and uga) have seen our offense destroyed.
 
Madison Grant

Madison Grant

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GTpdm said:
As far as the "losing 4 out of 5 to Duke" issue, let's keep in mind how the scheduling went just before the Duke-GT game over the last 5 years:

2014 @ GT (L) — Duke: bye — GT: vs.Miami
2015 @Duke (L) — Duke: vs.#23 Northwestern — GT: @#11 Notre Dame
2016 @GT (W) — Duke: bye — GT: bye
2017 @Duke (L) — Duke: @Army — GT: vs.#24 VT
2018 @GT (L) — Duke: bye — GT: @ Louisville

In every one of those four losses, the random vagaries of scheduling(*) managed to hand Duke an advantage over us: two flat-out byes, giving them 2 weeks to heal up and game-plan against us; a tuneup game against another option team, again giving them 2 weeks to prepare; and a game where we played a top-15 team on the road while they played a top-25 team at home. Over those five years, every single time they played us in BDS, they came in with two weeks of rest(**). The only time the bye didn't help them was the time when we had the extra week, too. On the flip side, both times we've gone into Somnambulist Stadium, we were coming off a game against a ranked team.

So it's not exactly like we were losing to Duke on a level playing field. If you were to reverse all of those advantages, it's not unreasonable to guess that you'd also reverse the W-L ratio.

(*) a.k.a. Cutcliffe's compromising photographs of someone in the ACC Front Office.
(**) How much do you want to bet that Duke gets another bye before they play us in 2020?

[Edit-1: @iceeater1969: I (respectfully) disagree that coaching was the only factor in all 5 games.]

[Edit-2: looking back even further, I see that Duke also had a bye before they played us in 2012—so that's four consecutive byes before they played us at BDS.]
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Call it fan bias or gold-colored glasses or whatever. But we should never drop 4 out of 5 to Duke. The big brother may spot little brother 10 in driveway basketball, but he still has no intention of losing to him.
 
smokey_wasp

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WreckinGT said:
Kinda strange to see people harping on about 1 out of 5 against Duke and completely ignoring that there were 6 games before that. I guess those games didn't count for some reason.
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Yes. Recent results matter more than what you did 5+ years ago. That's not strange at all and makes perfect sense. Recent results will usually be a better predictor of future ones because they show a trend.
 
Milwaukee

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WreckinGT said:
Kinda strange to see people harping on about 1 out of 5 against Duke and completely ignoring that there were 6 games before that. I guess those games didn't count for some reason.
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Just about as strange as seeing the same 5 people talk about "3 wins in Athens" like it's some sort of statue building feat...when we were 3-8 against Georgia I believe?

- Devils Advocate. #iLovePaul
 
iceeater1969

iceeater1969

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dressedcheeseside said:
I wish I was owned for life with his hall of fame legacy and might I add, bank account.
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What we could have been was set by our own choices. He had a tough life - coaching and was rewarded . As a teacher u have probably seen coaches come and go who dont get rewarded.

Now!! For sure u are right to proclam Coach as a HOF coach who did way way more with way less support than many many coaches and did it with no complaints.

What we can do is honor him to not letting that happen again at gt. U see it is really "we" the alumni that underfunded the football program.

Can u imagine how bad we would be without Coach.

It's a new lets build on the solid foundation of his tenure.


The old joke about the Jewish rabbi who wanted to fix up his sanctuary that had no attendees.. He prayed and prayed for to win the lottery. This went on for a long time. Finally a big cloud formed outside and the rabbi went out. He implored as to why he had no money.
The cloud replied, BUY A TICKET.
 
LibertyTurns

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RickStromFan said:
I don't see Duke as a program that should beat us badly 4 out of 5 years running. Even the mutts haven't done that. I bet the new staff agrees. I bet the old staff does too.
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If we go up against Dook & down against Clemp/Miami/VT, etc won’t this close the cycle of suck and put us right back where Chan left us off?
 
Coloradojacket

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iceeater1969 said:
Sorry for the sarcasm.
I think 4 of 5 and one close win is not good. Not sure why u use the " how dare u use the 1 barely win" requires such a strong response.
When u look at stats and only watch TV u get a limited view.



What changed after 2014 Duke and unc to make the offense take off? We gave pay raises and contracts thinking that coach had it figured out. Have we seen a run like last of 2014?


Looking at first half of 14 , second half of 14 and first half of 15 u what is jumps out about the opponents coaching and our offensive line. ?

In 14 first half verses second half we had same skill players and coaches. We barely beat or lost to teams THAT PLAY US EVERY YEAR or whose play the same offense ( ga southern) . After Duke unc beat us, what changed ? 2 things changed. In first half we played teams that had expierence playing the option. In the second half we played 3 teams that had not seen the option and we played 2 who had belowc5 hundred record.
What did change was we took out braun and the rt and played Shamire and Erin Joe. The line was massive and athletic. In the recent past we had smallish ol that had to cut block to sustain a block. There was NO FILM on anything like Shamire and Erin Joe. The uga dc had 2 years total DC experience , the fsu dc had 2 years experience and the msu was a db coach till just before the orange bowl. We beat uga by 6 barely lost to FSU and slaughtered

YES as u pointed out THE SKILL PLAYERS WERE BIG but it's NOT A LOGICAL WE WILL HAVE experienced sr and redshirt at every skill position.

In 15 our same coaches and OL WITH injured new skill players made short work of the first 2 crummy teams and we rolled into ND. Their fans were fearful in the pregame, but guess what. ND used un called defensive holding on center which plugged up the bb dive. Shamire / joe were never engaged by their defender. The defenders were able to simply out quick them in space and pursue to the run lanes - first jets slant and then the string out pitch at the sidelines. ND HAD ADJUSTED and the slowness of the giant ol w wide gaps was exploited.

There is so much tap and imo shared game plans on our offense and se have so few Deddrick Mills, we have made the scheme so complicated its too difficult to teach.

Imo, the real problem is the incorrect assumption that gt has lots of generous millionaires supporting the program. We have a bunch of alumni that don't donate or buy tickets AT A HIGHER $ RATE THAN THE rest of the acc schools. Even though we have a smaller alumni it is supposed to be wealthier alumni. By not supporting gtaa we have squandered a great opportunity. I will always believe that Coach , given a more than one or 2 studly player, could have made gt elite. We sat on our wallets and wore the man out.
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I am quite confused about what you are asking. Are you asking what changed from 2014 to 2015 in the offenses? Simple answer, we lost 10 starters. Those included 2 BB, 5 Abs, on Pro Bowl OL, and 2 wide receivers. CPJs offense is not plug and play.
 
smokey_wasp

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WreckinGT said:
After 6 years we were 1-5 against VT and 6-0 against Duke. At the time we’re those good predictors for the future?
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I said usually. I dont see any reason to think we were on the verge of a breakthrough. But I am done talking about the past for awhile. Those who want to remain there, fine with me. The CPJ cult and the CPJ haters society will carry on fine without my insights.
 
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RickStromFan

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LibertyTurns said:
If we go up against Dook & down against Clemp/Miami/VT, etc won’t this close the cycle of suck and put us right back where Chan left us off?
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Chan left us with the 2007 recruiting class. We're not there yet.

And we're much further down vs Clemson than at any time in our school's history right now. Miami still mostly has our number the past 11 years. We own VPI though.
 
Whiskey_Clear

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iceeater1969 said:
You brought lots of content that I agree was a factor beyond coaching. The bye thing was a factor at Duke. This says alot about how well our ad is at politics.

(My main point is the option does much better against teams that don't see us each year . I saw it posted that we were winners in every cross conference game.)

The 2014 run was a stroke of genius. We played elite factory teams and were dominant on the field. Our last 4 games against elite factory schools ( Clemson and uga) have seen our offense destroyed.
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We finally got an AD willing to fight for clear disadvantage our head coach had complained about for years. Thank you Tstan.

Our last four games against uga and Clem were as good as any teams Tech has ever played. Well...mutts getting embarrassed by longhorns diminishes them last year...so I’ll say last 3 of 4. And we played those teams during two years we were definitely not at our best under CPJ.
 

Lee

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WreckinGT said:
After 6 years we were 1-5 against VT and 6-0 against Duke. At the time we’re those good predictors for the future?
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What are you trying to get at? Do you genuinely think we were headed in a good direction? Paul did some good things while he was here. We had some really high highs, but also some really low lows. Looking at his whole body of work, he was significantly better than the two before him. He did have two great years though that Gailey for sure didn't have, 2009 and 2014.

In 2009 he had possibly the most explosive and best all around back GT has had this century, the best WR GT has had this century (outside of Calvin), a freak playing QB, and a 1st round defensive end all recruited by Gailey. He did coach them up and that was a great season. That ACC championship game was one of the most fun games I've ever been to.

In 2014, he deserves all the credit. He had an elite athlete playing qb, an elite NFL caliber guard, two NFL WRs, two NFL CBs, two NFL players on the DL and two experienced bbacks (one of which played in the NFL). All of which he brought in and coached up. The most frustrating part of this was what proceeded. I was as big of a PJ supporter as you could be at this time. The next 4 years, well honestly 3 years completely changed that for me. I thought he should've been fired after 17. 2 losing season in 3 years is about as bad as it gets.

The 9 seasons outside of the two great ones, his record was 61-54. If you take out the Alcorn States of the world, it's worse. I'm not here to bash the man (although some may take this as that). I'm here to understand people like yourself and the 4 or 5 others here that would seemingly wanted to have kept CPJ than make a change.

I'm not saying you are this person, but there are about 3-5 people on here that seem to be looking for any reason to throw shade on the new regime or discount anything that has been done to date. It's very frustrating to people like myself that have been diehard GT fans my whole life, represented the Institute on the field and eventually "got out." It's okay if people were big CPJ fans and I know he brought some Ga Southern fans to the GT side, but to put him seemingly ahead of the Institute is disheartening to the rest of us who care more about GT being successful than any coach or player.

I apologize @WreckinGT if this is misplaced with you. I have just been reading a lot of stuff lately that has frustrated me. I don't post often but have been a member for a long time and read a lot. I don't care if people have different opinions than mine, but I have had to mute 2 people which I never thought I would do because they kept saying the same thing in every thread and it seemed more anti GT than pro CPJ.

I will get off of my soap box now.
 

Lee

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RickStromFan said:
Chan left us with the 2007 recruiting class. We're not there yet.

And we're much further down vs Clemson than at any time in our school's history right now. Miami still mostly has our number the past 11 years. We own VPI though.
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We've owned VT since Beamer left. He was 6-2 against us.
 

WreckinGT

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Lee said:
What are you trying to get at? Do you genuinely think we were headed in a good direction? Paul did some good things while he was here. We had some really high highs, but also some really low lows. Looking at his whole body of work, he was significantly better than the two before him. He did have two great years though that Gailey for sure didn't have, 2009 and 2014.

In 2009 he had possibly the most explosive and best all around back GT has had this century, the best WR GT has had this century (outside of Calvin), a freak playing QB, and a 1st round defensive end all recruited by Gailey. He did coach them up and that was a great season. That ACC championship game was one of the most fun games I've ever been to.

In 2014, he deserves all the credit. He had an elite athlete playing qb, an elite NFL caliber guard, two NFL WRs, two NFL CBs, two NFL players on the DL and two experienced bbacks (one of which played in the NFL). All of which he brought in and coached up. The most frustrating part of this was what proceeded. I was as big of a PJ supporter as you could be at this time. The next 4 years, well honestly 3 years completely changed that for me. I thought he should've been fired after 17. 2 losing season in 3 years is about as bad as it gets.

The 9 seasons outside of the two great ones, his record was 61-54. If you take out the Alcorn States of the world, it's worse. I'm not here to bash the man (although some may take this as that). I'm here to understand people like yourself and the 4 or 5 others here that would seemingly wanted to have kept CPJ than make a change.

I'm not saying you are this person, but there are about 3-5 people on here that seem to be looking for any reason to throw shade on the new regime or discount anything that has been done to date. It's very frustrating to people like myself that have been diehard GT fans my whole life, represented the Institute on the field and eventually "got out." It's okay if people were big CPJ fans and I know he brought some Ga Southern fans to the GT side, but to put him seemingly ahead of the Institute is disheartening to the rest of us who care more about GT being successful than any coach or player.

I apologize @WreckinGT if this is misplaced with you. I have just been reading a lot of stuff lately that has frustrated me. I don't post often but have been a member for a long time and read a lot. I don't care if people have different opinions than mine, but I have had to mute 2 people which I never thought I would do because they kept saying the same thing in every thread and it seemed more anti GT than pro CPJ.

I will get off of my soap box now.
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I don't completely blame you for feeling that way about some here. I was actually for a change. Not because I thought CPJ couldn't win anymore, more because the program had gotten stale in general and it needed new energy. I actually like Collins. He would have been my choice for head coach from the options that were out there and I love what he is doing so far. I am kinda on the opposite of you in that I just don't like the subtle and sometimes not so subtle jabs at CPJ that are unnecessary. It seems like some still really want to prove that CPJ was an awful coach therefore every positive thing Collins does from now on will include some sly jab at CPJ to I guess prove themselves right. Cutcliffe went 4-7 against CPJ therefore he owned him and we had to make a change to alleviate this atrocity is a bit of a stretch to me. He had a streak against him. Good for him. Wake Forest beat FSU three years in a row recently. They lost 9 of the next 10 after that. Streaks happen. It doesn't mean CPJ wasn't going to beat Cutcliffe the next 5 years. It doesn't mean anything really.
 
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