Paul Johnson visiting the Ravens today

[RickStromFan]

Everyone here is missing the most obvious reason it wouldn’t work. CPJ had the most success against teams with limited exposure to the system. Look at his record vs rotating Atlantic opponents vs Coastal opponents. Look at his record/offensive production in bowls.

NFL team have giant staffs analyzing every little detail of every opponent. They are allowed more practice than is allowed at the college level. You play divisional opponents twice.

The element of surprise is out the window.

Yep. If Duke can figure it out, every single NFL DC has already figured it out. Running it in the NFL would look like us playing Clemson every single Saturday, with similar results.

 

[RickStromFan]

You know, I was sort of expecting this.

Your post was about cut blocking and how the pros don't do it because it's "dirty football" and the pros are all co-workers or something like that. Mine was to show that, not to put too fine a point on it, that you didn't know what you were talking about. Many pro programs have and still do use general cut blocking schemes and pro offense players do what their OC tells them to or they don't play. All this kumbaya stuff is not even close to how pro teams work.

So what answer can you give? Why, you move the goalposts, of course!

Stop it. There's no harm in saying that you are wrong; I've done it many times here. You can do it too. I swear it doesn't hurt a bit.

Ah yes, the ol' thinly-veiled personal attack. Always the first sign of a lost debate.
And speaking of "move the goalposts!", not once have I said that it isn't used, as you clearly imply above. Rather (and I provided a link to one NFL OL coach who agrees) that it's dirty football.

https://www.chron.com/sports/solomon/article/Cut-blocking-is-legal-but-is-it-ethical-2254311.php

Legendary Washington Redskins coach Joe Bugel, whose Hogs were among the most renowned offensive lines in league history, still gets riled up when the topic of cut-blocking comes up.
"We weren't going to jeopardize a man's career by cut-blocking," Bugel said in a phone interview. "The guys I coached, guys like (Hall of Fame guard) Russ Grimm, wouldn't do that. And I wouldn't ask them to."
Bugel's aversion to cut blocks boil down to injuries and integrity.
"There is no way a guy can protect his knees against cut-blocking," Bugel said. "Keep getting cut; sooner or later you're going to be in a hospital having surgery. ...
"I think there is some integrity involved. In those days there was integrity.
"I believe if you're an offensive lineman," Bugel said, "you show what you're made of by blocking a guy in his numbers, above the waist. Like men."

So not sure where I'm wrong? Or is a SB-winning OL coach's opinion not worth as much as a GT forum poster? Your PJ bias is showing here.
Fortunately, it appears that it's only a matter of time before this dirty technique is relegated to the land of the Horse Collar Tackle, now also an illegal play that was also considered to be dirty football before the rule change occurred that made it illegal.

 

[RickStromFan]

Btw, I rarely if ever, saw our WR cut blocking. This shows me that you just didn't watch the last decade of football at GT. I understand being excited about something new, and I'm really looking forward to the new defense. I just wish we could have kept the strength (the TO offense) of the team and made the weakness (previous defense) another strength.

I watched every single televised game and attended a few in person. Not sure how you bolded and took a post I made about NFL WRs and extrapolated that to GT WRs though????

 

[RickStromFan]

By that logic then if CGC has a losing record against an opponent it will mean that opponent has caught up with the system.

Hopefully Tech will start to get a break on scheduling too. I can remember having to play 3 teams in less than 3 weeks, traveling thousands of miles in back to back away games at critical testing points in the semester as well as having key opponents having a week off prior to playing us.

ah yes, the ol' "Scheduling Conspiracy". Right up there beside the "Refs Hate Us" conspiracy. What I've always wondered is why: Why would the ACC schedule makers go out of their way to screw us over? Why would the refs do the same? Why did these 2 factions apparently hate us so much, according to the conspiracy folks? Why did these conspiracies only seem to start when PJ got hired?

Did we get some bad scheduling breaks at times? Yes.

Some horrible officiating? (like every other fanbase thinks about their team?) Yes.

Was it intentional?

 

[RickStromFan]

I liked it, but was ready for a change. It is a golden age for passing and we are in a hotbed of QBs. That said, CPJ has a lot of knowledge. I am not surprised teams want to hear his insights.

what's interesting is that PJ has a ton of passing knowledge, if you've ever seen his Hawaii playbook. I always wondered why he didn't incorporate more of those plays into our offense during his time here. He really seemed deadset on living and dying with the run, contrary to his own extensive playbook history elsewhere.

 

[stech81]

what's interesting is that PJ has a ton of passing knowledge, if you've ever seen his Hawaii playbook. I always wondered why he didn't incorporate more of those plays into our offense during his time here. He really seemed deadset on living and dying with the run, contrary to his own extensive playbook history elsewhere.

I loved CPJ but everyone has their faults in CPJ case it was Sewak . But both are gone so no need to dwell on the past. Let's spend our time on the present and future.

 

[RickStromFan]

It's sad that another thread which could have been simply an appreciation for a former coach triggered some to spout nonsense. It still boggles my mind why people who got the coaching change they wanted can't be satisfied and positive for the future without crapping on our past.

Some football basics which apparently need repeating:

2) The faster defenses etc arguments against the offense were made when CPJ brought it to the power5 conference and disproved. Repeating them for the NFL is a speculative faith move and offends reason.
​

So, I'm not somebody who is jumping into every pro-Collins thread trying to throw cold water on the optimism. I've really enjoyed this forum, but I recognize that my time as a very active contributor is over. I was one of the first persons to join and stayed active even when one of the moderators was trying to push me away. Still, for those who complain about people who you perceive as trying to throw cold-water on Collins-optimism, I ask that you model that desire when it comes to threads about CPJ, especially when you don't know what you're talking about.

2) Our record against elite, fast defenses the past decade speaks for itself. To even begin comparing a college defense of 19-21 year olds against an NFL defense, all of which are stacked with experienced, elite football talent, is a tad disingenuous.

Kinda tired of seeing the bolded though, which is loosely translated as "Only PJ fans really know anything about football. The rest don't know what you're talking about". That's also a bit disingenuous.

Sorry to see your activity decreasing though. I always enjoy reading your opinions.

 

[bobongo]

Let's be clear and fair here. I'm not implying anything - the idea that cut blocking is dirty isn't an opinion I'm inventing but one held by many, including plenty of people with no animosity towards GT or PJ. Also, in terms of "still allowed", the Horse Collar Tackle was still allowed up until just a few years ago but is now widely considered dirty football as well and is a 15 yarder. Obviously, as of now, cut blocking is still a legal way to block in football but I'm still of the opinion that it's dirty.
There have been a number of players injured by cut blocking in both college and the NFL. The technique certainly isn't limited to PJ-coached teams!


https://www.chron.com/sports/solomon/article/Cut-blocking-is-legal-but-is-it-ethical-2254311.php

Can you point to a single instance during the 11 years of the CPJ era where someone was injured by one of our cut blocks? If cut blocks are dirty football, there would have to be some players injured by them. Who are they?

 

[Coloradojacket]

2) Our record against elite, fast defenses the past decade speaks for itself. To even begin comparing a college defense of 19-21 year olds against an NFL defense, all of which are stacked with experienced, elite football talent, is a tad disingenuous.

Kinda tired of seeing the bolded though, which is loosely translated as "Only PJ fans really know anything about football. The rest don't know what you're talking about". That's also a bit disingenuous.

Sorry to see your activity decreasing though. I always enjoy reading your opinions.

So the reality is we could beat the teams with the fast defenses. Georgia, FSU, Miami etc. Mainly because they overran plays and did not play disciplined. It was the slow big defenses we had trouble with. Boston college 2008, Iowa. Minnesota this year. Pitt a few seasons. Big tackles gave us fits.

 

[LibertyTurns]

That last sentence should be retracted. If u want to watch triple option football start supporting kennesaw st. I'm tired of going into the season knowing we've already lost two games.

You’re going to hate the next 2 seasons.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

what's interesting is that PJ has a ton of passing knowledge, if you've ever seen his Hawaii playbook. I always wondered why he didn't incorporate more of those plays into our offense during his time here. He really seemed deadset on living and dying with the run, contrary to his own extensive playbook history elsewhere.

He tried several times. Vad Lee was the last intensive effort but Vad did not like getting hit so it erased half the play book which cut effectiveness.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

ah yes, the ol' "Scheduling Conspiracy". Right up there beside the "Refs Hate Us" conspiracy. What I've always wondered is why: Why would the ACC schedule makers go out of their way to screw us over? Why would the refs do the same? Why did these 2 factions apparently hate us so much, according to the conspiracy folks? Why did these conspiracies only seem to start when PJ got hired?

Did we get some bad scheduling breaks at times? Yes.

Some horrible officiating? (like every other fanbase thinks about their team?) Yes.

Was it intentional?

I don't believe in any kind of conspiracies. I was talking about the luck of the draw on scheduling where we got screwed several seasons in a row. I am expecting that to even out in our favor over the next few years.

 

[RickStromFan]

Can you point to a single instance during the 11 years of the CPJ era where someone was injured by one of our cut blocks? If cut blocks are dirty football, there would have to be some players injured by them. Who are they?

Are we the only team that cuts? I thought the argument was that everyone cuts because it's legal (which is true). So do players I've already listed that played for other schools and got injured by cut blocks just not count? Does the injury to Hand not count against cut-blocking's reputation because it didn't happen under a PJ-coached player?

Obviously, not every single cut block results in an injury. Nor does every horse-collar tackle.

Nor does every knee-to-the-groin in an NFL pileup. Does that make such an action "not dirty"? You seem to define "dirty" as only that sort of play/action that results in an injury. I disagree.

Look, You think it's "not dirty". I think it is. We're a microcosm of the debate.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Saban would've collected an easy $1000.
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2017/10/the_2_views_on_cut_blocks_afte.html

Or that idiot Mike Tomlin:
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...s-the-hard-way-that-cut-blocks-are-dangerous/

CPJ was talking about any injuries that his offense caused by cut blocking. There were none.

 

[RickStromFan]

So the reality is we could beat the teams with the fast defenses. Georgia, FSU, Miami etc. Mainly because they overran plays and did not play disciplined. It was the slow big defenses we had trouble with. Boston college 2008, Iowa. Minnesota this year. Pitt a few seasons. Big tackles gave us fits.

You make a good point about the big, slow guys owning us. Which is interesting, given the AB-QB speed we had at times. That 2009 OB was maddening to watch.

Teams like Clemson and the mutts had the ugly combo of both big and quick. Like all 32 NFL teams!

 

[RickStromFan]

CPJ was talking about any injuries that his offense caused by cut blocking. There were none.

https://www.ajc.com/sports/yellow-jackets-assistants-swap-spots/1BIq0bXB8gYOvb3nCwZufP/

this one sounds more like an accidental chop block?

 

[knoxjacket]

You’re going to hate the next 2 seasons.

Probably more than that. Collins isn't going to get the luxury of playing Richt-in-decline or Dabo before he figured it out.

Choking against mediocre and bad Ugag team's in the death throes of the Richt era will sting even more as the Smart era proceeds.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

https://www.ajc.com/sports/yellow-jackets-assistants-swap-spots/1BIq0bXB8gYOvb3nCwZufP/

this one sounds more like an accidental chop block?

The link is about Roof sitting up in the box during games. ?

 

[AE 87]

2) Our record against elite, fast defenses the past decade speaks for itself. To even begin comparing a college defense of 19-21 year olds against an NFL defense, all of which are stacked with experienced, elite football talent, is a tad disingenuous.

Kinda tired of seeing the bolded though, which is loosely translated as "Only PJ fans really know anything about football. The rest don't know what you're talking about". That's also a bit disingenuous.

Sorry to see your activity decreasing though. I always enjoy reading your opinions.

The bold was in specific reference to posts/ideas which I countered. You suggesting that it was some general claim about CPJ fan superiority offends rational discussion.

I typically don't make personal attacks. I may attack posts but typically not persons. I challenge posts with reasons, too.

Nevertheless, here it is. My activity will be decreasing because the forum apparently wants more people like you who bring emotion rather than reason. You just want to shout everybody down rather than hearing what they say. Even in responding to my point 2, you didn't actually respond to what I was saying.

So, it's cool. It's not enjoyable for me to engage this any longer. It's a different forum now. That's fine.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Are we the only team that cuts? I thought the argument was that everyone cuts because it's legal (which is true). So do players I've already listed that played for other schools and got injured by cut blocks just not count? Does the injury to Hand not count against cut-blocking's reputation because it didn't happen under a PJ-coached player?

Obviously, not every single cut block results in an injury. Nor does every horse-collar tackle.

Nor does every knee-to-the-groin in an NFL pileup. Does that make such an action "not dirty"? You seem to define "dirty" as only that sort of play/action that results in an injury. I disagree.

Look, You think it's "not dirty". I think it is. We're a microcosm of the debate.

Even Saban didn't call it dirty.

But I'm confused. Some people didn't like CPJ's offense because the linemen flopped around hopelessly on the ground and others didn't like it because the line play was vicious and cruel. Which is it?