Paul Johnson time frame.

What gets CPJ fired or encouraged to resign?


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Animal02

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https://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/2018/11/26/18111592/monday-musings-forging-a-path-forward

“Hire a guy with an innovative spread offense
Stop caring so much about UGA in football
Focus on teams like VT, Miami, and Duke
Start with consistent 8 win seasons, then look beyond
Go to games, yell a lot, sing the songs”
What horse crap.....stop caring about UGA, then all he does is whine about the loss to UGA......a loss that was no different than 10 other teams suffered this year to them......many of which are far ahead of Tech WRT to recruits, spending etc.
 

TheTaxJacket

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Some of you act like PJ is going to be coaching another 10-20 years. Those arguing that getting rid of him is going to do all this harm and it might be true. I’m not here to argue. But PJ has 2 maybe 3 years left. That’s about it. GT will be in the same exact position it’s in today. Maybe even a little worse off given the current trajectory.

So what are those of you so against PJ leaving really arguing for here? 2-3 more years of probably the same? PJ’s “dynasty” is pretty much set. He had some great years, some average years and some really bad years. That’s really all you can sum this up to. 2-3 more years isn’t going to magically give us a great year. GT will not be winning the ACC and does not have a legit shot at a 2014 type season with the roster currently constructed (particularly on OL and DL). If you think we have that shot then it’s time to take the glasses off and be honest with yourselves. So my point remains. What is 2-3 more years of this going to do for our program?

Not a damn thing in my opinion. It won’t help and it could only hurt at this point. At some point we aren’t renewing his contract and you think it’s tough to recruit now think of how handicapped we will be when trying to recruit players knowing the coach is retiring next year. It’s a damn tough decision to be made but hanging on here for both GTs and PJs sake is not in the best interest.

The only time it makes sense to hang onto a coach until the bitter end is if doing so likely results in championships for the program. Do any of you honestly think GT will play for/win any championships in the next 2-3 years? If not, then what’s being accomplished?
 

inGTwetrust

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Some of you act like PJ is going to be coaching another 10-20 years. Those arguing that getting rid of him is going to do all this harm and it might be true. I’m not here to argue. But PJ has 2 maybe 3 years left. That’s about it. GT will be in the same exact position it’s in today. Maybe even a little worse off given the current trajectory.

So what are those of you so against PJ leaving really arguing for here? 2-3 more years of probably the same? PJ’s “dynasty” is pretty much set. He had some great years, some average years and some really bad years. That’s really all you can sum this up to. 2-3 more years isn’t going to magically give us a great year. GT will not be winning the ACC and does not have a legit shot at a 2014 type season with the roster currently constructed (particularly on OL and DL). If you think we have that shot then it’s time to take the glasses off and be honest with yourselves. So my point remains. What is 2-3 more years of this going to do for our program?

Not a damn thing in my opinion. It won’t help and it could only hurt at this point. At some point we aren’t renewing his contract and you think it’s tough to recruit now think of how handicapped we will be when trying to recruit players knowing the coach is retiring next year. It’s a damn tough decision to be made but hanging on here for both GTs and PJs sake is not in the best interest.

The only time it makes sense to hang onto a coach until the bitter end is if doing so likely results in championships for the program. Do any of you honestly think GT will play for/win any championships in the next 2-3 years? If not, then what’s being accomplished?
Agreed. About 125 D1 schools should fire their coaches due to not likely winning a championship in 2-3 years.
 

TheTaxJacket

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Agreed. About 125 D1 schools should fire their coaches due to not likely winning a championship in 2-3 years.

Wow...all that and that’s what you take away? Not at all what I mean and not at all applicable. Not all of those coaches are 10 years into a program and headed right towards retirement. In fact there are a very large amount of coaches who are not 10 years into a program. You don’t get that kind of time in a lot places.

You are better than this. Give me a good reason other than “you are just a hater”. That’s not a respectable response to a very real question.
 

ilovetheoption

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Some of you act like PJ is going to be coaching another 10-20 years. Those arguing that getting rid of him is going to do all this harm and it might be true. I’m not here to argue. But PJ has 2 maybe 3 years left. That’s about it. GT will be in the same exact position it’s in today. Maybe even a little worse off given the current trajectory.

So what are those of you so against PJ leaving really arguing for here? 2-3 more years of probably the same? PJ’s “dynasty” is pretty much set. He had some great years, some average years and some really bad years. That’s really all you can sum this up to. 2-3 more years isn’t going to magically give us a great year. GT will not be winning the ACC and does not have a legit shot at a 2014 type season with the roster currently constructed (particularly on OL and DL). If you think we have that shot then it’s time to take the glasses off and be honest with yourselves. So my point remains. What is 2-3 more years of this going to do for our program?

Not a damn thing in my opinion. It won’t help and it could only hurt at this point. At some point we aren’t renewing his contract and you think it’s tough to recruit now think of how handicapped we will be when trying to recruit players knowing the coach is retiring next year. It’s a damn tough decision to be made but hanging on here for both GTs and PJs sake is not in the best interest.

The only time it makes sense to hang onto a coach until the bitter end is if doing so likely results in championships for the program. Do any of you honestly think GT will play for/win any championships in the next 2-3 years? If not, then what’s being accomplished?

Here's the truth of the matter: With or without Paul Johnson, you are not going to be playing for any championships in the near future, unless you make MASSIVE changes to both your academic requirements and your infrastructure.

You have issues at GT. I acknowledge this. They prevent you from competing with the best of the best on a consistent basis.

Hell, Paul Johnson may even prevent you from ABSOLUTE maximization.

That said, he's pretty far down the list, and IMO he actually helps you reach a higher LOCAL maximum than you otherwise would. Yes, his offense limits offensive recruiting. This is probably true, but MANY OTHER THINGS limit your offensive recruiting, defensive recruiting, coaching recruiting, player retention, etc MUCH MORE.

ALSO, Johnson's offense gives you a tactical advantage vs. peer programs (again, please note that you guys had one of the better offenses in the country despite your recruiting rankings).

So lets game theory this:

1) You fire coach johnson, and bring in a more standard offensive coach.

2) You lose the tactical advantage, because suddenly you're doing the same things as everybody else, and you're easy to prepare for.

3) Your recruiting fails to improve to a great degree, because while top notch WR's didn't want to come play Outside Guard for coach Johnson, they ALSO don't want to come do calculus and hang out at sausage parties, and study until 3 am when they could bang hot chicks and get wasted at UGA and play in the exact same offense.

4) You're running the same offense as everybody else, with no better recruits than anybody else. Why would you expect better results than anybody else? (Guess what? YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET BETTER RESULTS THAN ANYBODY ELSE)

5) We have this conversation again in 4 years.

6) MAYBE THEN people figure out that the BIG problem is bigger than X's and O's

7) Probably not, because again, people aren't interested in facts.
 

smokey_wasp

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Some of you act like PJ is going to be coaching another 10-20 years. Those arguing that getting rid of him is going to do all this harm and it might be true. I’m not here to argue. But PJ has 2 maybe 3 years left. That’s about it. GT will be in the same exact position it’s in today. Maybe even a little worse off given the current trajectory.

So what are those of you so against PJ leaving really arguing for here? 2-3 more years of probably the same? PJ’s “dynasty” is pretty much set. He had some great years, some average years and some really bad years. That’s really all you can sum this up to. 2-3 more years isn’t going to magically give us a great year. GT will not be winning the ACC and does not have a legit shot at a 2014 type season with the roster currently constructed (particularly on OL and DL). If you think we have that shot then it’s time to take the glasses off and be honest with yourselves. So my point remains. What is 2-3 more years of this going to do for our program?

Not a damn thing in my opinion. It won’t help and it could only hurt at this point. At some point we aren’t renewing his contract and you think it’s tough to recruit now think of how handicapped we will be when trying to recruit players knowing the coach is retiring next year. It’s a damn tough decision to be made but hanging on here for both GTs and PJs sake is not in the best interest.

The only time it makes sense to hang onto a coach until the bitter end is if doing so likely results in championships for the program. Do any of you honestly think GT will play for/win any championships in the next 2-3 years? If not, then what’s being accomplished?

I think 2 years is a good bet for how long CPJ has left at GT. Why keep him 2 more years? I think TStan would like to have us in a better place financially before he starts a coaching search, so we can afford a really good staff. The money raised from the 2020 initiative will make this a more attractive job for potential hires, too. I believe that there is an exit strategy for CPJ being planned, but the 7-5 season allows TStan to not have to accelerate that strategy. With a losing season, his hand would have been forced.

That's my two cents.
 

MountainBuzzMan

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What is 2-3 more years of this going to do for our program?

Not a damn thing in my opinion.

I have posted this in several other threads, but here is why I think it would be extremely foolish to hypothetically fire him now.
I think we have some core issues here that any coach will have to battle. So I would like to make it easier to find the next coach and also make it easier for the next coach. We are currently kind of screwed.
1. 61 out of 65 in P5 football spend. (No money for good assistant coaches)
2. We struggle to find the 5% of the kids who will be able to make it at Tech academically.

1. I want to see 2 more years at a minimum of CPJ (assuming we keep a minimum of 7-8 wins). That allows our recent expansion of recruiting hires and to be able to expand that even further to do their work. Show the new coach we have a way that allows him to discover and recruit the kids that will allow him to be successful.
2. We need the money from the ACC network so we can hire quality assistant coaches.
3. We get the new edge building finished.
4. Give our AD a little more time to continue to fix all the damage the previous AD's did. (I really like Todd)

With all of this in place, I think Tech becomes a lot more attractive to the next coach. We try to do something now and the odds of success will be much lower. We will probably get turned down by 10's of coaches before we have to settle and the odds are decent that we would have been better off keeping CPJ.

So I think it would be increadable foolish to not keep him for the next couple of years while we are making a lot of much needed improvements for the next coach.
 
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MikeJackets1967

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I think 2 years is a good bet for how long CPJ has left at GT. Why keep him 2 more years? I think TStan would like to have us in a better place financially before he starts a coaching search, so we can afford a really good staff. The money raised from the 2020 initiative will make this a more attractive job for potential hires, too. I believe that there is an exit strategy for CPJ being planned, but the 7-5 season allows TStan to not have to accelerate that strategy. With a losing season, his hand would have been forced.

That's my two cents.
I hope against hope that CPJ retires BEFORE 2020:cigar:
 

Vespidae

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The only time it makes sense to hang onto a coach until the bitter end is if doing so likely results in championships for the program. Do any of you honestly think GT will play for/win any championships in the next 2-3 years? If not, then what’s being accomplished?

I'm always leery when I see the word "only" in a sentence.

TStan shared his thoughts on this. Tech has substantial legacy costs to deal with right now. There's the facility debt to deal with as well as paying former coaches. My read is that the GTAA was extremely keen on getting to a bowl because frankly, they need the money.

So, the plan is ... a) plan a successful transition as to when the legacy cost roll off, b) raise another $10M or so to get a little running room, c) upgrade the infrastructure.

There is virtually no point in accelerating a new coach search when a) you don't have the money to fire the current coach AND hire a new one. and b) we have the same infrastructure issues as before. My take is that this a 3 year timeframe ... and CPJ knows that. As long as he wins 6-7 games a year and we can watch those costs go down ... we put ourselves into a great position then.

Getting him out now will just wreak havoc when we can least afford it.
 

wvGT11

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All great points above. I guess it really comes down to Tstans vision.

Id like to see a new coach come in and amp things up again, but that's still not going to change some of the core gtaa issues.

Next year could be another 14 year or it could be a flop who knows, but what I do see is a fan base that is washing out , and a declining attendance

As other posters have said it's either next year or 2-3 years from now that we will have an off year or two because of the transition .

Now on to the offense, we run an offense that has an advantage over the traditional offenses , why would we want to trade up on that ? I really don't think if we switch to a standard offense we will get any better recruits.

As I mentioned before maybe we just need to look at another option coach, one that runs an updated one with more variety kinda like Auburn . That way we won't have as bad of a transition. Just a thought.



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stech81

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I really which we could let this go and not spread rumors what good does this do. We talk and make fun of other fan bases when the fact is we are no better than them and at times worse. Do recruits read this message board , I have no idea but I do know that some of our players families read it. If you want to know what the biggest problem we have it's our fans. Some want to stop giving money some want to stop going to the games and if you don't think one of our biggest problems is not our fan base then we have a problem. Fix this and then work on other things.
 

Blumpkin Souffle

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Is this actually what you heard from somebody who knows something or is it an internet rumor? Signing day is around the corner and we have a big recruiting weekend this weekend and rumors of coach retiring making the rounds online does hurt recruiting. If it's actually something somewhat solid then I think it's ok to discuss, otherwise it could easily be something started by a rival team to hurt us.
It’s an unsubstantiated internet rumor. @MikeJackets1967 doesn’t have any sources other than the swarm and the Tennessee boards.
 

ilovetheoption

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All great points above. I guess it really comes down to Tstans vision.

Id like to see a new coach come in and amp things up again, but that's still not going to change some of the core gtaa issues.

Next year could be another 14 year or it could be a flop who knows, but what I do see is a fan base that is washing out , and a declining attendance

As other posters have said it's either next year or 2-3 years from now that we will have an off year or two because of the transition .

Now on to the offense, we run an offense that has an advantage over the traditional offenses , why would we want to trade up on that ? I really don't think if we switch to a standard offense we will get any better recruits.

As I mentioned before maybe we just need to look at another option coach, one that runs an updated one with more variety kinda like Auburn . That way we won't have as bad of a transition. Just a thought.



Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

FWIW, Auburn's offense was worse than GT's this year, with better players. Don't know why you'd want to downgrade, but the heart wants what it wants.
 

TheTaxJacket

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For what it’s worth, I don’t want CPJ fired. He has earned way better than that. I just hate seeing fans get so damn defensive over him and acting like he is the end all be all and is going to continue some mythical great dynasty for another decade when this just isn’t true. We are quibbling over a menial amount of time here and his remaining time here is more about setting up the transition than anything else. Lame duck session. Trying to leave a program in better shape than you left it. I just wish folks would focus on that and not “you are just a CPJ hater and he is the reason we even have a football program still.” It’s nonsense and the defensiveness is weak.

I also do not agree that our system gives us a “tactical advantage”. It may have the first 5 years but it certainly does not fool any of the regular teams on our schedule any longer. This belief is a false flag. It was fun the first 5 years or so, but it’s simply not as effective. We have only beaten UGA on years where they have new defensive coaches. After one year, they catch on and we don’t beat them again until a new coach is there. That’s not a slight. It’s the truth. 2014 may be exception.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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It’s an unsubstantiated internet rumor. @MikeJackets1967 doesn’t have any sources other than the swarm and the Tennessee boards.

This kind of stuff happens from time to time. In January 2014 the rumor was that after Vad transferred, CPJ wanted GT to buy him out. He shot that rumor down and went on to win 11 games and an Orange Bowl. But we keep perpetuating these rumors to our own detriment.
 

ilovetheoption

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For what it’s worth, I don’t want CPJ fired. He has earned way better than that. I just hate seeing fans get so damn defensive over him and acting like he is the end all be all and is going to continue some mythical great dynasty for another decade when this just isn’t true. We are quibbling over a menial amount of time here and his remaining time here is more about setting up the transition than anything else. Lame duck session. Trying to leave a program in better shape than you left it. I just wish folks would focus on that and not “you are just a CPJ hater and he is the reason we even have a football program still.” It’s nonsense and the defensiveness is weak.

I also do not agree that our system gives us a “tactical advantage”. It may have the first 5 years but it certainly does not fool any of the regular teams on our schedule any longer. This belief is a false flag. It was fun the first 5 years or so, but it’s simply not as effective. We have only beaten UGA on years where they have new defensive coaches. After one year, they catch on and we don’t beat them again until a new coach is there. That’s not a slight. It’s the truth. 2014 may be exception.

I'm sure this is a waste of keystrokes, but here goes:

Look at your average recruiting rankings.
Look at your average offensive metrics.

If the system provides no advantage, they should be exactly the same.

Are they the same? (I'll give you a hint, they're not).

So, if it's not the system, to what do you attribute the difference?
 

wvGT11

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On the flipside ,
How well dud everyone else in the Acc do with that standard offense ? About the same as us
FWIW, Auburn's offense was worse than GT's this year, with better players. Don't know why you'd want to downgrade, but the heart wants what it wants.

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Bogey

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Here is the truth of where we are now. We used to discuss what we should expect, 8, or 9, or 10 wins. Now we are relieved to make it to a 2nd tier bowl. It is what it is. I don't want CPJ fired, I just want him to exit on a positive note so we can move onto our next chapter which is coming soon, like it or not.

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