Paul Johnson time frame.

[Deleted member 2897]

You say 4 and 5 star recruits en masse hell , we arent even a whimper for any of them. Show me how many 4 or 5 star recruits visited GT in the past 2 or 3 years, it would be easier to find a copperhead at Grant Field

Better yet, how many have visited GT in the last 30 years.

 

[grandpa jacket]

Better yet, how many have visited GT in the last 30 years.

I think Chan brought in some 4 stars, more than this coach has anyway

 

[Collinttaylor]

Better yet, how many have visited GT in the last 30 years.

Gailey brought in 3- 4 stars right before he was let go, Derick Morgan, Morgan Burnett, and Jonathan Dwyer to give us the #15 recruiting class. Does anyone else miss how fun these guys were to watch? These three players are arguably 3 of the top 5 players Tech has had on the roster under Paul Johnson

 

[GTRX7]

I think Chan brought in some 4 stars, more than this coach has anyway

I do not think CPJ has been a great recruiter. That said, aside from the '07 class, I think CPJ has recruited on average about the same as Chan. Maybe a few less 4 stars, but Chan also had a lot more 2 stars.

As for 5 stars, maybe someone can correct me, but I am not aware of Georgia Tech ever having recruited a guy who was a consensus 5 star recruit. Calvin is obviously the guy who pops up as having been rated a 5 star by some services, but he was rated 4 stars by others. For example, Rivals - https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2004/calvin-johnson-12831

If we let CPJ go, I am hoping we get a guy who can be a much better recruiter than either CPJ or Gailey.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I think Chan brought in some 4 stars, more than this coach has anyway

We currently have 9 guys on our team rated 4-stars by at least one agency, that are Sophomores or younger.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Gailey brought in 3- 4 stars right before he was let go, Derick Morgan, Morgan Burnett, and Jonathan Dwyer to give us the #15 recruiting class. Does anyone else miss how fun these guys were to watch? These three players are arguably 3 of the top 5 players Tech has had on the roster under Paul Johnson

Chan Gailey had 1 good class, the rest were pretty bad. Nearly all of CPJs classes finished better than all of Chan's except for that 1. Think of CPJ has having a lower standard deviation and a slightly better average.

Said another way, Chan Gailey had 1 good class, the rest were pretty bad. CPJ had 1 really bad class, the rest were pretty average, with no good classes. (In terms of recruit class rankings.)

 

[Skeptic]

So let me pose thusly: The SI piece quotes Johnson that, even as the triple option grows in popularity, his version is the last vestige of the under-center options. The Navy coach now is apparently visiting shotgun option teams for ideas he and Ivin Jasper can incorporate into an already expanded option, and Bob Davie has done the same at New Mexico. So what if Johnson began visiting and sending coaches to these places and there was even the hint of getting your wish: shotgun, more passing, different kind of option though still option? Anybody be more tolerant? Or do you just want the coach gone? (I would just like to frame the argument better. So which is it?)

 

[iceeater1969]

Because Gailey has been brought up I thought I would add old Bud Carson into this memory lane discussion.
In his 5 years if he could have played Tulane 3 more times and played Alcorn 5 times, these additional 8 wins could have helped him from being fired.

He was 4 & 6 for 3 years then went 9 & 3 and then 6 & 6 = 27 & 27. Add 8W and he's 35 & 27 in his years .

To get up to Bud Carson (5 years) by the end of 18 we need 5 wins.

If we start the 5 years in 15 and drop the great 14 year , to get to his 35 wins we need 16 wins to add to our current 19 wins. Win 5 more games this year and 11 games next year and we are equal to wins that got Bud Carson fired


Please stop mentioning Gailey. He and Carson were both unacceptable.




.

 

[GTRX7]

Because Gailey has been brought up I thought I would add old Bud Carson into this memory lane discussion.
In his 5 years if he could have played Tulane 3 more times and played Alcorn 5 times, these additional 8 wins could have helped him from being fired.

He was 4 & 6 for 3 years then went 9 & 3 and then 6 & 6 = 27 & 27. Add 8W and he's 35 & 27 in his years .

To get up to Bud Carson (5 years) by the end of 18 we need 5 wins.

If we start the 5 years in 15 and drop the great 14 year , to get to his 35 wins we need 16 wins to add to our current 19 wins. Win 5 more games this year and 11 games next year and we are equal to wins that got Bud Carson fired


Please stop mentioning Gailey. He and Carson were both unacceptable.

.

That is a lot to digest. I love your analysis of "lets look at the last 5 years, but ignore the best year, and then add 8 wins to the coach we are comparing him to." lol.

I feel like I have to say this in every thread, but I guess it bears repeating. EVERYBODY agrees that, if you only look at the last last three years, they have been unacceptable. LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this board agrees the last three years have been unacceptable. It is just that some are willing to give him more time to get it turned back around based on his past success, including in '14 and '16.

Also, lets not pretend Carson only played Alabama, Notre Dame, and Georgia 12 games every year. Tech played 3 or more teams like Tulane, Duke, Army, Texas Christian, and Navy every single year in those years too.

 

[BCJacket]

Chan Gailey had 1 good class, the rest were pretty bad. Nearly all of CPJs classes finished better than all of Chan's except for that 1. Think of CPJ has having a lower standard deviation and a slightly better average.

Said another way, Chan Gailey had 1 good class, the rest were pretty bad. CPJ had 1 really bad class, the rest were pretty average, with no good classes. (In terms of recruit class rankings.)

Posted this before:

You are correct. Except for one outlier good year CCG was overall same/worse than CPJ on recruit rankings. I'd also argue that CPJ's rankings are skewed by taking underrated players (A-backs, QB/athletes) that are valuable to his system, but don't meet a prototype for the pick-and-choose factory schools.

Rankings are entirely based on the perceived quality of a player's offers. 247 isn't flying guys around the country to visit high schools and evaluate players. If Bama, UGA or Ohio State offer you, you're a 4 star. If they all offer you, you're a 5 star. Thus, Bama's recruiting ratings are self-fulfilling. They're also a proxy for accuracy in the ratings because Bama has dozens of well paid evaluators on their staff. If Bama wants someone, they are good. Or at least fits what Bama is looking for...

If those 247/Rivals writers actually knew how to evaluate talent, they'd be working at Bama making much more money.

 

[Skeptic]

Because Gailey has been brought up I thought I would add old Bud Carson into this memory lane discussion.
In his 5 years if he could have played Tulane 3 more times and played Alcorn 5 times, these additional 8 wins could have helped him from being fired.

He was 4 & 6 for 3 years then went 9 & 3 and then 6 & 6 = 27 & 27. Add 8W and he's 35 & 27 in his years .

To get up to Bud Carson (5 years) by the end of 18 we need 5 wins.

If we start the 5 years in 15 and drop the great 14 year , to get to his 35 wins we need 16 wins to add to our current 19 wins. Win 5 more games this year and 11 games next year and we are equal to wins that got Bud Carson fired


Please stop mentioning Gailey. He and Carson were both unacceptable.




.

I think I will just stick with the argument: what has Johnson done? Much easier.

 

[Skeptic]

That is a lot to digest. I love your analysis of "lets look at the last 5 years, but ignore the best year, and then add 8 wins to the coach we are comparing him to." lol.

I feel like I have to say this in every thread, but I guess it bears repeating. EVERYBODY agrees that, if you only look at the last last three years, they have been unacceptable. LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this board agrees the last three years have been unacceptable. It is just that some are willing to give him more time to get it turned back around based on his past success, including in '14 and '16.

Also, lets not pretend Carson only played Alabama, Notre Dame, and Georgia 12 games every year. Tech played 3 or more teams like Tulane, Duke, Army, Texas Christian, and Navy every single year in those years too.

I don't. What does that do to your argument?

 

[BCJacket]

I do not think CPJ has been a great recruiter. That said, aside from the '07 class, I think CPJ has recruited on average about the same as Chan. Maybe a few less 4 stars, but Chan also had a lot more 2 stars.

As for 5 stars, maybe someone can correct me, but I am not aware of Georgia Tech ever having recruited a guy who was a consensus 5 star recruit. Calvin is obviously the guy who pops up as having been rated a 5 star by some services, but he was rated 4 stars by others. For example, Rivals - https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2004/calvin-johnson-12831

If we let CPJ go, I am hoping we get a guy who can be a much better recruiter than either CPJ or Gailey.

I'd love to get a coach that's a better recruiter.

But, realistically only a few coaches are good at recruiting and everything else a HC has to do. CPJ isn't a great recruiter. But he is a great game coach (was?). Last few years have been disappointing. But to me it seems naive to think we can just 'get a better coach'.

For example; James Franklin gets a lot of press for being a "great recruiter" and good coach. The 4 years before he got to Vandy their average class ranking was 66, he elevated it to #43 his best year, after he left it's been ~50. (He also jumped ship after a few years and Vandy is 21–33 since.)

So, maybe, if we got a coach whose best skill was recruiting, we could move up 20 spots on average, with the occasional better class. Have us around 30th in recruiting, that's still never going to be enough to out-talent Clemson, UGA and Miami... So, we also need that coach to be a better teacher/game coach than Dabo, Richt and Smart, to get our Top 30 talent to beat their Top 10 talent. CCG got some good players, but did nothing with them. He had Calvin Johnson and managed 6 points against Wake!

Serious question- Who is the coach that:

• Is available
• We can afford
  
• Will come to GT
• Can raise our recruiting rankings significantly
• Coach up those recruits well enough to beat Clemson, UGA, Miami and VT
• Coach the game well enough to beat Clemson, UGA, Miami and VT
• Will stay more than a few years (Or not leave a mess when he goes.)
• Keep our APR on track
• Not get us NCAA sanctions
• Win as big or bigger than CPJ did (ACC championship and Orange Bowl victory)

That's not an argument to keep CPJ if he's not fulfilling expectations. But we should be realistic about what our next coach is likely to be able to do.

 

[GTonTop88]

With the way UGA is recruiting now we could build some hype just like UGA has with their leftovers. Kirby had a losing season and built UGA by using Bamas success against them as a recruiting tool. I’m not saying we’ll recruit in the top 10 or anything but UGA can’t sign everyone and I’m sure a lot of kids would like to stay in-state if they could. If we could sign a couple of top 25 classes and build off of the hype of a new coach, new uniforms, new locker room and the 2020 upgrade we might could get in a groove at the right time.

Kirby’s success has a lot to do with timing. Auburn was down(tough Malzahn redeemed himself) , FSU tanked, and the SECe went turned into a dumpster fire in Kirby’s first couple of seasons so the only schools he really had to recruit against was Clemson and Bama.

I just think now, would be the perfect time to build hype around the program. VT has not been who they were and Miami isn’t there. Duke is excelling in the ACCcoastal right now so I know we could too.

 

[danny daniel]

I actually wish we "vetted" kids some more. Not for the off the field stuff like you mentioned, but because we have so much attrition for kids transferring out or leaving the team. We aren't going to have top 25 classes so let's follow a model of other schools with "get old, stay old" and develop them in the weight room. You can't get old with the attrition we have every year. We really need to make sure the recruits know what they are getting into with Tech and have bought in to the academic and social side of things. I'd rather have a 2* 5th year senior than sign a high 3* that leaves after a year or when someone starts over them.

IMO Nate Woody's player rotation system is a step in the right direction to help improve the attrition issue. Being number one and playing most downs (our O except for the ABs) turns off a lot of kids wanting to see the field. We do not develop enough OLine players by playing them but we sure do whine about OLine depth. This year I have seen some improvement in playing more people on O and I hope this trend continues.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I'd love to get a coach that's a better recruiter.

But, realistically only a few coaches are good at recruiting and everything else a HC has to do. CPJ isn't a great recruiter. But he is a great game coach (was?). Last few years have been disappointing. But to me it seems naive to think we can just 'get a better coach'.

For example; James Franklin gets a lot of press for being a "great recruiter" and good coach. The 4 years before he got to Vandy their average class ranking was 66, he elevated it to #43 his best year, after he left it's been ~50. (He also jumped ship after a few years and Vandy is 21–33 since.)

So, maybe, if we got a coach whose best skill was recruiting, we could move up 20 spots on average, with the occasional better class. Have us around 30th in recruiting, that's still never going to be enough to out-talent Clemson, UGA and Miami... So, we also need that coach to be a better teacher/game coach than Dabo, Richt and Smart, to get our Top 30 talent to beat their Top 10 talent. CCG got some good players, but did nothing with them. He had Calvin Johnson and managed 6 points against Wake!

Serious question- Who is the coach that:

• Is available
• We can afford
  
• Will come to GT
• Can raise our recruiting rankings significantly
• Coach up those recruits well enough to beat Clemson, UGA, Miami and VT
• Coach the game well enough to beat Clemson, UGA, Miami and VT
• Will stay more than a few years (Or not leave a mess when he goes.)
• Keep our APR on track
• Not get us NCAA sanctions
• Win as big or bigger than CPJ did (ACC championship and Orange Bowl victory)

That's not an argument to keep CPJ if he's not fulfilling expectations. But we should be realistic about what our next coach is likely to be able to do.

I think what you need is a Dabo-like model. It’s not 1 person - it’s 75.

 

[Goatman93]

I for one would like to see a change.

 

[Jacket in Dairyland]

So let me pose thusly: The SI piece quotes Johnson that, even as the triple option grows in popularity, his version is the last vestige of the under-center options. The Navy coach now is apparently visiting shotgun option teams for ideas he and Ivin Jasper can incorporate into an already expanded option, and Bob Davie has done the same at New Mexico. So what if Johnson began visiting and sending coaches to these places and there was even the hint of getting your wish: shotgun, more passing, different kind of option though still option? Anybody be more tolerant? Or do you just want the coach gone? (I would just like to frame the argument better. So which is it?)

This is exactly what I would like CPJ to do. UPDATE the option ! IMO, it's more than a personnel issue. DC's - of our major rivals anyway- have caught up.

 

[Skeptic]

This is exactly what I would like CPJ to do. UPDATE the option ! IMO, it's more than a personnel issue. DC's - of our major rivals anyway- have caught up.

yet the offensive stats with a Clemson exception, and the always are, don't reflect that. Leading the nation in rushing? Somebody didn't catch up. It is just not that simple.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

yet the offensive stats with a Clemson exception, and the always are, don't reflect that. Leading the nation in rushing? Somebody didn't catch up. It is just not that simple.

Only 2 teams have more than 2 TDS against Clemson this year - both Texas A&M and Georgia Tech scored 3 TDS.

Same as last year, only like 3 teams all year put up 3 TDs, and everyone else but the unicorn was less. NC State was the 4 TD unicorn.