Paul Johnson time frame.

[lv20gt]

Lol even if there had been an ACC CG during all of Gailey's years, GT would have still only qualified in 2006.

Gailey lost to Fresno State twice and also lost to BYU.

okay 1/6 vs 2/11 (no I don't thinking backing in because other programs were ineligible is a particularly strong point).

 

[TheTechGuy]

The Coastal has been crap since it’s inception. No team has ever even sniffed the playoff.

With the exception of 2014 Georgia Tech. Who missed the playoffs by a total of 14 points and forced the AJC's Bark Madley to pen this column delineating Tech's very possible chance of making it into the playoff.

 

[TheTechGuy]

okay 1/6 vs 2/11 (no I don't thinking backing in because other programs were ineligible is a particularly strong point).

It was a 3 way tie that had to go to a third tie breaker because Miami, GT, and UNC had all beaten each other and finished 3-2 in the coastal. GT actually had the head-to-head tiebreaker over UNC. Let's not act like Miami and UNC were both 7-1 and banned themselves.

Maybe not a "strong" point, but it's not as weak as people on this site make it out to be.

 

[TheTechGuy]

Kansas is probably the worst team Georgia Tech has ever lost to and that includes 80s Furman.

2003 loss to Duke is right there with 2010 loss to Kansas. I'll give you a hint, you don't want to start comparing single wins and losses between CPJ and CCG. CCG will get destroyed on the lack of wins against top competition.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I think all of this is interesting, but it serves GT really NO benefit or purpose. TStan, with input from the largest donors, will decide where we go from a coach standpoint. I find myself at the following conundrum:

With CPJ's system, IF he gets fortunate in recruiting, I do believe a NC is possible.

Without CPJ, we might, I say might, be able to recruit slightly better, and MAYBE with the right coach, be a little more consistent year end and year out, but I still believe this consistency would not please most of you that want CPJ gone. I DO NOT believe what Bobby Ross had happen is going to happen again, in today's environment. Most likely, we could remain on a bowl streak where we win 6-9 games every year, trying to run an offense that is more appealing to recruits.

Also, I have grown to love option football, and so, for me, I think the "with CPJ" is where I am right now. With that said, I have to agree that his system has created more difficulty recruiting D talent that even I ever believed when he first came to GT. And, I crave a QB that is good at running this O and can pass the ball at a high level.

 

[Truth]

I think all of this is interesting, but it serves GT really NO benefit or purpose. TStan, with input from the largest donors, will decide where we go from a coach standpoint.

Buzz, I agree with all of your post, but the part above is what matters.

You guys with the strong opinions about getting another coach need to reach on top of your dresser and gather up a few million $$ in pocket change and give it to the AA. God know you must have that kind of pocket change since you are so smart!

And what's with comparing CPJ to the ghosts of the past? We aren't gonna hire any of them to replace him.

 

[GTRX7]

First off half of Gailey's years there wasn't an ACC CG so it's 1/3 and so that point is moot

As others pointed out, that makes no difference as CCG wouldn't have qualified with our ACC record even if there was one.

...especially since we backed into one of those 3 with Johnson as two coastal members were ineligible.

As others pointed out, we were in a three way tie and held the tie-breaker over one of the two teams. Running a clean program is also part of what some appreciate about CPJ and is what ultimately got us into the ACCCG.

We also finished tied 1st in the Coastal in 2008 and just missed because of a tie breaker (where VT beat us only on a joke personal foul call).

CPJ also finished 2nd in the coastal 3/11 years. Apart from 2006, CCG never finished higher than 3rd.

Second, half of his years we only played 11 regular season games and if we added a lower end OOC game, because we still played UConn, Auburn, and ND those three, years and that number for Gailey goes up to 4/6 to 6/11 for Johnson. Not guaranteed but likely.

Fine, lets assume CCG plays one more game a season and wins each of those. This is still true:
Seasons with 9 or more wins: CCG 1/6 -- CPJ 4/10.
Seasons with 10 or more wins: CCG 0/6 -- CPJ 2/11
Seasons with 11 or more wins: CCG 0/6 -- CPJ 2/11
Better?

For the ACC record, is 5-3 really that much more noteworthy than 4-4? Had gailey lost to auburn or nd and won an extra game in conference those two years made you look at him any different? Probably not. But Johnson had better years because he went 5-3 while losing to BYU, MTSU, or USF?

Yes, I do consider conference games more important. And the difference between 4-4 and 5-3 is what got us into the ACCCG in 2012. Sucked losing to MTSU and USF, but I would rather take those losses than ones to mediocre ACC teams in in-conference games.

At it so often does it seems the main thing is just 2014 and beating UGA. Now I still think a large part of our fanbase is just too obsessed with UGA. Beating them 30% of the time shouldn't be some huge deal imo. That should be expected. Gailey was terrible in that regard, and Johnson isn't terrible. But I don't view being not terrible as a particularly strong argument.

Beating UGA is not anywhere close to the "main thing" for me. It is the overall body of work.

And as good as 2014 was it was a recruiting cycle ago, and Johnson really hasn't don't much to make me think that 2014 was anything but an outlier that isn't likely to happen again. When people talk about taking the lower lows to get the higher highs, I don't think that argument holds if the higher highs is just going to be winning 8 or 9 but not even winning the division, if the lower lows means missing bowls.

By all reports, our recruiting has only picked up since 2014. And I think it is hard to call 2014 too much of an outlier when we also won 9 in 2016, which is as many games as CCG won in any of his 6 years (when he played 14 games).

[[Also, can we just do that when comparing coaches. If so, pretty clear Bobby Ross was a terrible coach who should not be respected at all by Tech fans. I mean, aside from his "outlier" season, his best team was only 8-5.]]

 

[ramblinwreck1378]

I put together a quick analysis that looks purely at results - it doesn't factor in recruiting because you recruit to get good players to win games. If you recruit good players for your system and have a good system, you're going to win games. The results played out pretty much how I thought, but it's kind of nice to have some firm numbers to reference. Here is how each coach from Bobby Dodd on has ranked and performed against each other.

A couple notes:

- The below are rankings based on the comparison of each coach to the group
- All coaches were evaluated using a percentage as opposed to using gross numbers (e.g. George O'Leary finished his career at Tech being ranked in 5/8 seasons, so he was evaluated using 62.5%, not 5)

The 'Rank Average' is weighted based on the following factors:

National championships are only weighted at 20% because only 2 guys have won them, making it less of a differentiator. Bowl games didn't receive a huge weight because they are really a direct byproduct of your overall win % and less about who you beat, strength of schedule, conference record, etc.

Dodd is the clear number 1 and O'Leary comes in at 2. Johnson is at 4 and Gailey is at 6 - squarely in the middle of the pack, which is fitting based on his season-by-season results. Johnson has the edge over Gailey in everything except for Bowl Games, which is a testament to Gailey and highlights Johnson's 2 losing seasons. But when ranked along with everything else, it still doesn't push Gailey over Johnson.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I put together a quick analysis that looks purely at results - it doesn't factor in recruiting because you recruit to get good players to win games. If you recruit good players for your system and have a good system, you're going to win games. The results played out pretty much how I thought, but it's kind of nice to have some firm numbers to reference. Here is how each coach from Bobby Dodd on has ranked and performed against each other.

A couple notes:

- The below are rankings based on the comparison of each coach to the group
- All coaches were evaluated using a percentage as opposed to using gross numbers (e.g. George O'Leary finished his career at Tech being ranked in 5/8 seasons, so he was evaluated using 62.5%, not 5)

View attachment 4540

The 'Rank Average' is weighted based on the following factors:

View attachment 4541

National championships are only weighted at 20% because only 2 guys have won them, making it less of a differentiator. Bowl games didn't receive a huge weight because they are really a direct byproduct of your overall win % and less about who you beat, strength of schedule, conference record, etc.

Dodd is the clear number 1 and O'Leary comes in at 2. Johnson is at 4 and Gailey is at 6 - squarely in the middle of the pack, which is fitting based on his season-by-season results. Johnson has the edge over Gailey in everything except for Bowl Games, which is a testament to Gailey and highlights Johnson's 2 losing seasons. But when ranked along with everything else, it still doesn't push Gailey over Johnson.

This is interesting, but I do believe bowl games should probably have gotten at least 10%. I believe that CPJ is better overall than Gailey, but Gailey was more consistent getting us to poor/mediocre bowl games.

 

[THWG]

You are right. There is parity in the ACC. It is trash across the board (save Clemson). The coastal is the worst division in the P5.

The worst division in all of P5 is the Pac-12 South and the Coastal is even with the Big Ten West. Besides, what I meant by parity is that any given team can beat you on any given night and that is true for the ACC (save Clemson). I also wouldn't consider the ACC trash across the board. The conference was a lot worse overall when CCG was here and we let Wake win a conference title.

 

[GTRX7]

Thanks for the work ramblinwreck1378! I am sure I could pick nits, but think that ranking is actually pretty good.

(Though, can we add in a "loyalty" factor too. I would rank both O'Leary and Ross higher in my "personal value" rankings had they not left Tech once they had success. That doesn't mean that I don't love what they did and appreciate them as amazing coaches for GT, just wish they had stuck around and done it longer!)

 

[GTRX7]

The worst division in all of P5 is the Pac-12 South and the Coastal is even with the Big Ten West. Besides, what I meant by parity is that any given team can beat you on any given night and that is true for the ACC (save Clemson). I also wouldn't consider the ACC trash across the board. The conference was a lot worse overall when CCG was here and we let Wake win a conference title.

Honestly, once you get past UGA, I am not sure that the SEC East is any better than the ACC Coastal.

 

[stech81]

Thanks for the work ramblinwreck1378! I am sure I could pick nits, but think that ranking is actually pretty good.

(Though, can we add in a "loyalty" factor too. I would rank both O'Leary and Ross higher in my "personal value" rankings had they not left Tech once they had success. That doesn't mean that I don't love what they did and appreciate them as amazing coaches for GT, just wish they had stuck around and done it longer!)

Did Coach Ross coach anywhere more than 5 years ? Just seem to me he didn't stay any place long.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Did Coach Ross coach anywhere more than 5 years ? Just seem to me he didn't stay any place long.

He did not.

5 years at Citadel
5 years at Maryland
5 years at GT
5 years in San Diego
4 years in Detroit
3 years at Army

That said, if you win a national title at GT, you could spend the rest of your life as an axe murderer for all I care.

 

[AE 87]

The worst division in all of P5 is the Pac-12 South and the Coastal is even with the Big Ten West. Besides, what I meant by parity is that any given team can beat you on any given night and that is true for the ACC (save Clemson). I also wouldn't consider the ACC trash across the board. The conference was a lot worse overall when CCG was here and we let Wake win a conference title.

Fwiw, Duke beat the winner of the B1G West. I really think people undervalue the coastal division because of its parity, but it's hard to prove when good teams crap the bed in key games.

 

[Milwaukee]

The coastal is very even and balanced, but it damn sure ain't good. We should be coasting (no pun intended) through our side if we'd just get out of our own way.

thwg

 

[MikeJackets1967]

The coastal is very even and balanced, but it damn sure ain't good. We should be coasting (no pun intended) through our side if we'd just get out of our own way.

thwg

Who do you think will be the preseason 2019 favorite in the ACC Coastal? Here's my 2019 preseason ACC predictions


ACC Atlantic

1) Clemson
2) Syracuse
3) Boston College
4) NCSU
5) Wake Forest
6) Florida State
7) Louisville

ACC Coastal

1) Virginia
2) Georgia Tech
3) Pitt
4) Miami
5) Duke
6) Virginia Tech
7) North Carolina

 

[alagold]

I think all of this is interesting, but it serves GT really NO benefit or purpose. TStan, with input from the largest donors, will decide where we go from a coach standpoint. I find myself at the following conundrum:

With CPJ's system, IF he gets fortunate in recruiting, I do believe a NC is possible.

Without CPJ, we might, I say might, be able to recruit slightly better, and MAYBE with the right coach, be a little more consistent year end and year out, but I still believe this consistency would not please most of you that want CPJ gone. I DO NOT believe what Bobby Ross had happen is going to happen again, in today's environment. Most likely, we could remain on a bowl streak where we win 6-9 games every year, trying to run an offense that is more appealing to recruits.

Also, I have grown to love option football, and so, for me, I think the "with CPJ" is where I am right now. With that said, I have to agree that his system has created more difficulty recruiting D talent that even I ever believed when he first came to GT. And, I crave a QB that is good at running this O and can pass the ball at a high level.

Really well said.The other problem point with PJs Offense.WE can't get top WRs.Next yr, who is going to play at the level we need.Big enough to block 90% of time but good enough to stretch the field? The best WR he ever got was a luck out-- Smelter.
So you think we had a hard time passing this yr ? next yr w/o Qua, Lynch and Brad--...hmmm.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Really well said.The other problem point with PJs Offense.WE can't get top WRs.Next yr, who is going to play at the level we need.Big enough to block 90% of time but good enough to stretch the field? The best WR he ever got was a luck out-- Smelter.
So you think we had a hard time passing this yr ? next yr w/o Qua, Lynch and Brad--...hmmm.

I think you're selling Hill, Waller and Jeune a bit short if you think we never get good WR's under CPJ.

Jalen Camp will be here next year and had 8 catches and a TD this year. I am also really liking Malachi Carter and I think Stephen Dolphus, who is 6'5" can be a playmaker if healthy.

 

[THWG]

I think you're selling Hill, Waller and Jeune a bit short if you think we never get good WR's under CPJ.

Jalen Camp will be here next year and had 8 catches and a TD this year. I am also really liking Malachi Carter and I think Stephen Dolphus, who is 6'5" can be a playmaker if healthy.

Don't forget about Adonicas Sanders. He probably would have played a lot this year if not for his injury.