Pastner cleared of Ron Bell lies

[MWBATL]

Judd is a Western Kentucky grad. His thing is investigative jounalism and he is held in high regard (Pulitzer nominated). Does mostly politics, but also has worked on sex scandals and the school cheating scandal. This article is really flimsy for someone on his level.

Still freshly annoyed with Pastner every time this mess gets brought up again, fair or unfair.

You assume that his prior investigative journalism was based more in fact and honesty as opposed to this type of work.

I don't know this gentleman's work so cannot comment on him, but in general, the journalism "profession" is rife with this type of work. It rewards this type of thing (sometimes with Pulitzers). In cases where I have been a witness to stories from the inside (rare, but I have seen a couple) the media stories were very far from an accurate portrayal of the facts and the complex situations. As a result, I am always highly skeptical unless I have multiple sources reflecting the same story.....that is NOT the case here.

 

[dtm1997]

You assume that his prior investigative journalism was based more in fact and honesty as opposed to this type of work.

I don't know this gentleman's work so cannot comment on him, but in general, the journalism "profession" is rife with this type of work. It rewards this type of thing (sometimes with Pulitzers). In cases where I have been a witness to stories from the inside (rare, but I have seen a couple) the media stories were very far from an accurate portrayal of the facts and the complex situations. As a result, I am always highly skeptical unless I have multiple sources reflecting the same story.....that is NOT the case here.

So you're skeptical of the article's facts, which is driving @1979jacket being skeptical of Pastner's relationship with Ron Bell.

I think we've just reached Skepception, folks. Nothing else to see here.

 

[slugboy]

You assume that his prior investigative journalism was based more in fact and honesty as opposed to this type of work.

I don't know this gentleman's work so cannot comment on him, but in general, the journalism "profession" is rife with this type of work. It rewards this type of thing (sometimes with Pulitzers). In cases where I have been a witness to stories from the inside (rare, but I have seen a couple) the media stories were very far from an accurate portrayal of the facts and the complex situations. As a result, I am always highly skeptical unless I have multiple sources reflecting the same story.....that is NOT the case here.

The investigative journalism on the APS school cheating scandal was an amazing piece or work—thorough, fact-based, and consequential. The amount of work that you need to overturn a power structure (including Andy Young) telling people “nothing to see here” is impressive.

There were a lot of writers involved in that at the AJC. John Perry and Alan Judd were two of the big contributors. Judd is noted for his tenacious digging when he was getting pressured to back away.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[mstranahan]

“I was being a compassionate human being and allowing him normal access as I would with anyone else in that situation,”

As a general rule, a Make A Wish situation is with a child, not a grown man, much less a convicted felon.
Also, it generally involves spending a few hours with the grantee, not several years across multiple cities / jobs.
Finally, how many of us have been given Josh’s cell number for thousands of texts? And his wife’s cell?

It may not be a lie in technical, legal terms but it sure as hell ain’t the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[YlJacket]

I will leave it to the NCAA to opine on lying and breaking any of their many rules. But without a doubt it reinforces the impression of dangerously n naive (at best) for an ACC level head coach.

 

[Backstreetbuzz]

So you're skeptical of the article's facts, which is driving @1979jacket being skeptical of Pastner's relationship with Ron Bell.

I think we've just reached Skepception, folks. Nothing else to see here.

If it comes from the AJC, I’m skeptical as hell. They are a biased, bigoted corporation with an agenda. Thankfully, they will soon be out of business.

 

[orientalnc]

I will leave it to the NCAA to opine on lying and breaking any of their many rules. But without a doubt it reinforces the impression of dangerously n naive (at best) for an ACC level head coach.

I have gone full circle on this. After reflecting on the two times I was deposed, and considering that NCAA questioning has to be very similar, I believe my attorney in each case insisted that I never elaborate or clarify my answers for the opposing attorney. Provide exact answers to the question as it was asked. Never suggest the wrong question was asked and never say more than yes or no, if yes or no will answer the question. It is a big temptation, when asked if you still beat your wife, to try a long explanation that you have never beaten your wife. The best answer is no. Let the opposing attorney decide whether to ask clarifying questions.

I am sure CJP had plenty of time with his attorney before the interview and knew when and how to answer each question. It was not his responsibility to remind the NCAA attorney that they did not have all the texts between he and RB. Or to explain their degree of friendship or what being a nice guy really means to him. And, if CJP truly believed he was just helping a guy who needed help, he is entitled to have that opinion as a part of his truthful answers.

All that said, the article is a terrible hit to the GT program just when we need good news.

 

[MtnWasp]

"Technical" and "legal" are the relevant standards with regards to disciplinary proceedings, as it should be.

On a personal level, it is apparently human nature to blame the victim. If a woman is raped, we tend to question why she allowed herself to be alone with a man like that. If a person is mugged, we question why they were in such a neighborhood at that time, etc. This point of view is especially true for people who have never been blindsided in their lives.

That Ron Bell is a sycophant and extortionist doesn't seem to be the target of outrage or discussion. Rather, that Pastner allowed himself to be victimized and how he handled it seems to be the main target. But, I am not on board with this point of view. While it is true that Pastner allowed Bell to be close, what Bell subsequently did with that position is where the cutting edge of accountability lay. Bell is the bad player here, just like the rapist is the bad player in a rape, even if we tend to want to nit-pick at the victim's choices or manner of handling the assault.

My inclination in this situation is to circle the wagons in support of the coach and not to let him flap in the breeze over Ron Bell.

 

[lv20gt]

“I was being a compassionate human being and allowing him normal access as I would with anyone else in that situation,”

As a general rule, a Make A Wish situation is with a child, not a grown man, much less a convicted felon.
Also, it generally involves spending a few hours with the grantee, not several years across multiple cities / jobs.
Finally, how many of us have been given Josh’s cell number for thousands of texts? And his wife’s cell?

It may not be a lie in technical, legal terms but it sure as hell ain’t the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

His comment about make-a-wish was in regards to how Bell lied about having cancer to get closer to Pastner and the team. Guy claims to have terminal cancer, calls Pastner his hero, and asks some favors. That is, literally, like a make a wish situation. It's not a lie just because the author tried to editorialize it to draw readers.

This article came out a year and a half after the interview took place, 4 months after the NCAA sent out it's NOA, and 2 months after GT's response was due. The NOA dealt explicitly with a coach, DLab, misleading the NCAA, so there is no reason to believe the NCAA views Pastner as having misled them since he wasn't accused of anything in the NOA. So why is this article pretending that he did? Probably for the same reason it doesn't just post the transcript of the interview and let people decide for themselves. Without the editorializing this isn't a story, and this guy who got stonewalled by everyone involved wanted to bleed a couple more clicks so he editorialized it to try and get people to draw the conclusions that the NCAA didn't find, and he can't actually claim. If the NCAA actually thought Pastner lied to them they'd have claimed so and this guy would be reporting on it half a year after the news broke.

 

[GTFLETCH]

His comment about make-a-wish was in regards to how Bell lied about having cancer to get closer to Pastner and the team. Guy claims to have terminal cancer, calls Pastner his hero, and asks some favors. That is, literally, like a make a wish situation. It's not a lie just because the author tried to editorialize it to draw readers.

This article came out a year and a half after the interview took place, 4 months after the NCAA sent out it's NOA, and 2 months after GT's response was due. The NOA dealt explicitly with a coach, DLab, misleading the NCAA, so there is no reason to believe the NCAA views Pastner as having misled them since he wasn't accused of anything in the NOA. So why is this article pretending that he did? Probably for the same reason it doesn't just post the transcript of the interview and let people decide for themselves. Without the editorializing this isn't a story, and this guy who got stonewalled by everyone involved wanted to bleed a couple more clicks so he editorialized it to try and get people to draw the conclusions that the NCAA didn't find, and he can't actually claim. If the NCAA actually thought Pastner lied to them they'd have claimed so and this guy would be reporting on it half a year after the news broke.

Wrong... CJP stated the relationship was make-a-wish.... Problem is they had a deep relationship, where Bell did Christmas with the Pastners, He eve recruited players for Josh. CJP family and the Bell's vacationed together... Nonesense..Fire him for cause ASAP

 

[RonJohn]

Wrong... CJP stated the relationship was make-a-wish.... Problem is they had a deep relationship, where Bell did Christmas with the Pastners, He eve recruited players for Josh. CJP family and the Bell's vacationed together... Nonesense..Fire him for cause ASAP

Where did you get information that he said the situation "was make-a-wish"? The AJC article that doesn't provide many actual quotes from the interviews says:

literally like a Make-A-Wish Foundation.

“I was being a compassionate human being and allowing him normal access as I would with anyone else in that situation,” he said.

It then contains a quote from Bell's current attorney. If this story is simply a reaction to receiving the tapes, why would he need to consult Bell's current attorney? (Who wasn't Bell's attorney when the interviews took place I don't believe.) If this was Bell's attorney trying to stoke the AJC into getting the tapes and writing an article, well it reads like that could be exactly what it is.

 

[RonJohn]

There is an article on WSB: https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/at...ll-full-story-in-ncaa-investigation/968591581

That article has a less strongly worded version of the information:

Pastner did not disclose the existence of thousands of recruiting-related text messages tied to him, his wife, Bell and others, nor details of the couples’ close relationship, including holiday and home visits in Atlanta and Arizona where Bell and Pendley reside.
Instead, Pastner likened his relationship to Bell to a Make-A-Wish Foundation, cancer charity case and said he’d never given him access to the locker room.
Numerous photos and home videos show Bell inside the Georgia Tech locker room and interacting with players there and during practices, as well as at his Arizona home.
Text messages from discovery in the case include recruiting talk between Pastner’s wife, Bell and others.

So this article states that he didn't disclose "thousands of recruiting-related text messages". Did the investigators ask how communications were conducted with Bell? Does Pastner believe that Bell is a recruiter or that he was recruiting for GT or Memphis? Apparently Bell believes that, but does Pastner? A transcript of the interviews would be better at determining whether Pastner should have said anything about text messages of any kind.

How "close" was the relationship? Bell has portrayed it as if he was extremely tight with Pastner. There are pictures of Bell with Pastner and his family. Was Bell an intimate part of Pastner's life, or did Pastner answer a "sick and dying" man's requests to see the basketball team? Did Pastner's wife travel to Arizona specifically to visit Bell, or did she visit her family(from Arizona) and stop to see the "sick and dying" man? ---- This part does bother me., but not from an NCAA perspective or a lying perspective. Pastner gave intimate access to this con-man to the team and to his family. I don't remember seeing anything that indicated that Bell is violent(except a threat to send El-Chapo after someone), but how would any of you feel about having someone as mentally unstable as Bell around your family?

The WSB article goes on to discuss:

• Pendley and Bell have been charged with witness tampering and intimidation.
• Pendley's attorney has dropped her

It contains this quote from Pastner's lawyer:

“I find it disgusting and offensive that you, the AJC and WSB-TV continue to give air to Bell’s and Pendley’s malicious efforts to damage Josh and his family.”

It does seem like Bell or Bell's attorney had some input into having this story produced. It seems incredible to me that while awaiting a trial for a lawsuit about defamation that Bell is still involved in trying to publicly defame that person.

 

[orientalnc]

There is an article on WSB: https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/at...ll-full-story-in-ncaa-investigation/968591581

That article has a less strongly worded version of the information:

So this article states that he didn't disclose "thousands of recruiting-related text messages". Did the investigators ask how communications were conducted with Bell? Does Pastner believe that Bell is a recruiter or that he was recruiting for GT or Memphis? Apparently Bell believes that, but does Pastner? A transcript of the interviews would be better at determining whether Pastner should have said anything about text messages of any kind.

How "close" was the relationship? Bell has portrayed it as if he was extremely tight with Pastner. There are pictures of Bell with Pastner and his family. Was Bell an intimate part of Pastner's life, or did Pastner answer a "sick and dying" man's requests to see the basketball team? Did Pastner's wife travel to Arizona specifically to visit Bell, or did she visit her family(from Arizona) and stop to see the "sick and dying" man? ---- This part does bother me., but not from an NCAA perspective or a lying perspective. Pastner gave intimate access to this con-man to the team and to his family. I don't remember seeing anything that indicated that Bell is violent(except a threat to send El-Chapo after someone), but how would any of you feel about having someone as mentally unstable as Bell around your family?

The WSB article goes on to discuss:

• Pendley and Bell have been charged with witness tampering and intimidation.
• Pendley's attorney has dropped her

It contains this quote from Pastner's lawyer:

It does seem like Bell or Bell's attorney had some input into having this story produced. It seems incredible to me that while awaiting a trial for a lawsuit about defamation that Bell is still involved in trying to publicly defame that person.

In case you did not know, the AJC and WSB TV are both owned by Cox Media.

 

[RonJohn]

In case you did not know, the AJC and WSB TV are both owned by Cox Media.

I just posted the WSB article because it is slightly less of a hit piece article. It contains additional information(as compared to the AJC article) about Bell and Pendley. They are under indictment for criminally intimidating a witness.(In the Pastner case) Pendley's lawyer has dropped her. I don't know if that is referring to the first lawyer that dropped them or if Pendley's second lawyer has dropped her too.

So this article has vague insinuations about Pastner also. However, it also contains information that makes Bell and Pendley look like nutjobs. It is slightly more balanced, although it still contains very strong insinuations about very vague information. If the first reporter actually thinks that he has new information, he should ask the NCAA investigators about it. If they agree that it is new information and are going to look into it, then publish the story with the information that the NCAA is investigating. If they don't agree, there is absolutely no story here. What happened it appears is that the reporter got some vague, maybe important/maybe insignificant, information and published insinuations with input from the opposing counsel involved in Pastner's lawsuit.

 

[slugboy]

I think if this story were about coach K instead of Pastner, it would be a media circus, but there would be few serious thoughts about job stability or retirement. But, it’s about Pastner.

You want the good news about you to outweigh the bad news.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jacketup]

Wrong... CJP stated the relationship was make-a-wish.... Problem is they had a deep relationship, where Bell did Christmas with the Pastners,

Pastner is Jewish and Bell is no Christian. So what if they spent Christmas together. Spending Rosh Hashanah with me would be a non-event. The Christmas thing in the article was just one point that called it into question.

 

[Lavoisier]

People are throwing around the word "legal" here. The NCAA doesn't have subpoena power, they can't put people under oath, and nobody is legally required to turn over information like you would during discovery in a legal case. Nobody has any "legal" responsibility and the definition of a lie isn't the same as in a legal setting.

 

[Peacone36]

People are throwing around the word "legal" here. The NCAA doesn't have subpoena power, they can't put people under oath, and nobody is legally required to turn over information like you would during discovery in a legal case. Nobody has any "legal" responsibility and the definition of a lie isn't the same as in a legal setting.

But at the same time, the NCAA has shown time and time again that when they discover that you are less than forthcoming with them, they still have the ability to drop the hammer. Which could lead to a horrible situation of us having to keep this coach and being sanctioned

 

[YlJacket]

There is a contractual responsibility for schools and their current employees to turn over phones and other information plus answer questions.

 

[dtm1997]

Think about this...

LSU just spent more on their football locker room than what it will cost us to pay a new Coach if we fired Pastner.



Even if we could fire him for cause, which is not evident, where is that money coming from?