Passing the ball

Oldgoldandwhite

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How enjoyable is comparing anything we do with Alabama, Auburn, or FSU? Is it not clear that we are not playing the same game as those folks?
The reason I used Alabama and Auburn, they do not really throw it that many times per game. I wanted to see how high FSU was. I was surprised they were 7th and Auburn like 97th. We are not many notches behind Auburn except on percentage.
 

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
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Thanks for that video, gt13.
Watching that, you have to get excited about Justin's running ability.


I like his footwork on roll out passes - he gets to his spot and plants and turns his shoulders, while keeping his eyes downfield.
His straight dropbacks from under center start off nicely, with a good drop to get him some depth, but he drifts backwards a little bit after his initial plant. While he might need that to see better, it does make it a little more difficult to get the extra yards on the passes. It also screws with timing a little.

I'm not wild about how he looks in the pistol passing game. Vad was much better at getting that initial drop - you still need that because you're not in the true shotgun, and it helps with timing. Justin appears to just catch it and hop around, stationary.

He steps into his throws more consistently than Vad. He's also much more confident about his ability to get the ball in tight spaces.

No idea how well he reads secondaries at this point. Most of his completions in the video came off of really simple reads and/or "throw to X"-type looks. I remember the pick he threw against Miami was off of Smash and was more of a case of him not seeing the OLB sprinting to the flat than not making the right read on the cornerback. He's got to pick up on stuff like that too, though.

He attacks on his pistol runs a lot better than Vad. I think the pistol/diamond stuff is more viable with him for that reason. Vad made it tough to run the read play because of his reluctance to get upfield if he pulled the ball.

He was really in some bad spots this year, thrown in near the goalline and running QB draws a lot.
 

jeagt

Georgia Tech Fan
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What have Navy's and GSU's completion percentages looked like over the same time period? Are they higher then ours have been? I know they "don't play the same level of competition" but they do play against talent relative to their own.
 

GTRX7

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You called it.If it doesn't work consistently after six yrs,it won't. -for WHATEVER reason. The uga game was best I've seen in a while and we still lost.(oh,yeah the DEF failed us).
Where was it with 3 minutes to go in bowl game?

We seem to be conflating issues here. What is the problem? The offense, the points scored, the completion percentage, or QB efficiency? Beyond completion percentage, I am not sure what about the system has not been shown to work. Our points per game are at a level very comparable to that of the Joe Hamilton era, so I don't think it has been established that the system prevents us from having a good offense or points per game. As stated above, Washington graduated with the 3rd highest QB rating in Tech history, so I don't think the offense prevents us from having a good QB efficiency.

If the complaint is just about completion percentage (which is much less meaningful to me than those other factors (or even QB efficiency or yards per pass)), then I agree that the system is a problem. However, so long as we are winning and scoring points, I could care less about completion percentage. I haven't seen that as a particularly strong indicator of success.

vs UGA
2008: comp. % (1-6); tot. pts. (45); tot. yds (428)
2009: comp. % (6-13); tot. pts. (24); tot. yds (340)
2010: comp. % (8-15); tot. pts. (34); tot. yds (512)
2011: comp. % (6-17); tot. pts. (17); tot. yds (355)
2012: comp. % (10-21); tot. pts. (10); tot. yds (426)
2013: comp. % (11-24); tot. pts. (34); tot. yds (495)
 

Mack

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I don't have links to those, but I can do some new write ups. I'm a big fan of the RNS concepts.
Agree with you love the run and shoot and wonder why we dont gravitate toward it some..Offensive line doesnt have to hold blocks so long and we have big and tall kids at WR.I see Spurrier and Shaw and wish we ran the spread since they throw slants that seem to always be open.No not a Air Atlanta attack but we need to have routes we can complete since eight or nine in the box is hard to compete with in the passing game.
 

AE 87

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At first glance, it seemed like to me that we were passing quite a bit more than usual this year. Looking at the numbers, our attempts the last two years have been about 30-40 more per season. Maybe CPJ was trying to transition the offense to suit Vad? All speculation at this point.

2013- 203 Attempts
2012- 194 Attempts
2011- 167 Attempts
2010- 168 Attempts
2009- 168 Attempts
2008- 165 Attempts
2007(For Comparison)- 363 Attempts

IMO I don't really care about the number of attempts, I just want to go back to being able to catch defenses off guard when throwing it. In the first couple of years in the program, it felt like we were always throwing when the defense least expected it, giving us wide open receivers. Now it looks like we throw when everyone in the stadium knows we are going to do it. Turned into a very predictable offense. Maybe with Justin in there we can get back to that with more of a running threat at QB.

We also played 14 games in 2012 and 2009.

So in 2008, 2010, 2011 we averaged about 13 passes/game and about 14/game in 2012. In 2013, we averaged 15.6. In 2009, we averaged 12.
 

gtdrew

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Agree with you love the run and shoot and wonder why we dont gravitate toward it some..Offensive line doesnt have to hold blocks so long and we have big and tall kids at WR.I see Spurrier and Shaw and wish we ran the spread since they throw slants that seem to always be open.No not a Air Atlanta attack but we need to have routes we can complete since eight or nine in the box is hard to compete with in the passing game.
Problem with that is in the red zone. Tough to run a lot of rns principles in cramped spaces like that...
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
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366
Problem with that is in the red zone. Tough to run a lot of rns principles in cramped spaces like that...

That's one of the main differences between the Run and Shoot and the Air Raid. The Air Raid is much better in the RedZone.
 

Mack

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Problem with that is in the red zone. Tough to run a lot of rns principles in cramped spaces like that...
Agree with you there yet you can still spread the defense out and maybe get to the corner but you better have speed.Good point on the RNS.Guess we want the long play rather than the death march.
 

gtg936g

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I think we will have more attempts, and a higher completion % in 2014. For much of the 2013 season our RT position was not able to pass block effectively to allow the throws we wanted to make develop. Vad was finally able to learn to check down which likely accounts for the higher number of short yardage completions. To pass, you must first be able to block. I will admit that while I like the flexbone, the wide splits make pass blocking more challenging. I can understand the element of suprise if we throw on 2nd and short, but on 3rd and 10, we might as well fall back to a more conventional pass alignment, and give JT the option to get the first with his arm or his legs.

Most people do not appreciate the mental toughness it takes to play the QB position at a high level. Very few college QBs can do well when running for their life. Manziel was probably the best at it.
 

stylee

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That's one of the main differences between the Run and Shoot and the Air Raid. The Air Raid is much better in the RedZone.
On that note, one of our better red zone passing plays has been a play that resembles the AR Mesh play. We seem to favor it much more v man-up coverages, though the concept lends itself well to zone defenses when you add in the choice portions of the cross routes.


What other AR plays do you see as viable from our base, trips,or pistol spread formations, nodawgs?
 

pckl300

Georgia Tech Fan
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Atlanta, GA
I could not find a team that had a lower passing completion % than we did. We came in at 45.3 %. For comparisons sake: Auburn was the 97th in PYPG but had a 60% completion rate, FSU with 65%, and Alabama with 66%. I do not think it is throwing more, but completing more. There are only a handful of schools that have below 50% completion rate regardless of offensive line, skill of receivers, or any other excuse. Surely we can find a QB that can complete close to 60% of his passes.

You couldn't find a team with a lower passing percentage after looking at the top 3 teams in the nation? Gee... I wonder why that might be.

Edit: Sorry, I realize that the above has already been said. But, honestly, how well will we stack up in any stat column against these 3?
 

Boomergump

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We are hung up too much on completion percentage as a measure. I would like to complete more for sure, but if you are going to compare us against other offenses why don't you start by comparing completion percentages on throws of 20+ yards first, then 10+ yards, and so on. I think you will find we complete a competitive percentage of deep throws. Other team's short throws are often replaced by pitches in our offense. I am pretty sure we complete most of those.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
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On that note, one of our better red zone passing plays has been a play that resembles the AR Mesh play. We seem to favor it much more v man-up coverages, though the concept lends itself well to zone defenses when you add in the choice portions of the cross routes.


What other AR plays do you see as viable from our base, trips,or pistol spread formations, nodawgs?

Agree on Mesh. Cross if man settle if zone. It would complement our crack blocks on rocket toss well.

Other things from Air Raid are Shallows. Looks like mesh, but you high low the LBers. One crosses 7 yds deep, the other on the heels of the DLine. 86 and 89 which have a 3 level stretch and Dig coming in behind. 88 Post wheel or Curl Wheel (like RNS) and 84 Curl Flat (also like RNS). All of the 80 series have a check/flare option for the fullback, so he checks for blitzer, if none, he flares out automatically for a safety valve for the qb. One Aback would also have a check/flat. The flat route will complete the curl flat or high low the LBer on a 3 level stretch. The 80 series are easy reads for the qb. Qb knows what defender he is reading, and if for some reason it's not good, you go dig, to back out (fullback flare). It's just easier than looking for small windows or hoping that you and the WR see the same thing to option the route to.

Also the 3 step game is easy to check to. 92 Slant flat (can formation and or tag to go double slant or slant with inside vertical route), 90 vertical-hitch combo (similar to smash) and 99 fade (get it out quick rather than 40 yds down field). The Air Raid is simple for the offense, but complicated for the defense to defend.
 

stylee

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My team ran slant-flat and I leaned on it a lot on 3rd and 4th and medium, but I sometimes wondered how much sense it made for us as a team, given our rushing average, pass completion % and so forth.

But then... it was a pretty low-cost passing play - look to the other side if there are 2 safeties high was one of my rules, throw away from the flat defender, the end.

I think the Shallows combo could be an effective play for us from Trips. The check-and-flare AB could be nice off of that v. man, as you'd get a natural pick from the low crosser.

One play we ran maybe once or twice last year was a variation on the RnS "Thunder" - Double outs. We did it from trips, with the outside guy streaking and the slot and AB running the outs at the same depth. One of these was a pretty big gainer, IIRC, against UVA or Miami. I'd think it's something that Justin could hit well.
 
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