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Passing the ball

Discussion in 'Georgia Tech Football' started by Oldgoldandwhite, Jan 14, 2014.

  1. Oldgoldandwhite

    Oldgoldandwhite Helluva Engineer

    I could not find a team that had a lower passing completion % than we did. We came in at 45.3 %. For comparisons sake: Auburn was the 97th in PYPG but had a 60% completion rate, FSU with 65%, and Alabama with 66%. I do not think it is throwing more, but completing more. There are only a handful of schools that have below 50% completion rate regardless of offensive line, skill of receivers, or any other excuse. Surely we can find a QB that can complete close to 60% of his passes.
  2. IronJacket7

    IronJacket7 Helluva Engineer

    You are right it is more about completion %. As CPJ says we need to have the passing efficiency. But in addition, the OL needs to give the QB more time to throw the ball. I think this will help the completion % also.
  3. Ggee87

    Ggee87 Helluva Engineer

    Its hard to have a high % passing when most passes are long bombs down the field. If we threw the ball more, and they were shorter routes I have a feeling the completion % would go up significantly. If I throw 5 passes and only complete 2 that's 40%. If someone throws it 35 times they have a lot more room for error. That's only like 13 or so more completions to have that same 40%. That gives you around 22 in completions. Which would be awful in a reg. Offense.
    augustabuzz and Essobee like this.
  4. Techster

    Techster Helluva Engineer

    Is it the QB, or is it the system, or both?

    CPJ does not have a long line of QBs who have passed over 50% much less 60%. Tevin's passing over 50% in 2012 was the first a CPJ starting QB passed over 50% in a long time.
  5. Ggee87

    Ggee87 Helluva Engineer

    Also I wanted to add that we throw it a lot on obvious passing downs so our QB is usually running for his life and the routes we have our guys run don't have time to develop
    ATL1 and IronJacket7 like this.
  6. stylee

    stylee Helluva Engineer Featured Member

    It's a combination of things. We threaten more vertically, so we tend not to have a lot of short passes which pad completion percentages.

    That being said, we usually DO have a short/medium guy on passing combinations, but our QBs don't always see them. That goes to less time practicing the passing game, or maybe ineffective teaching of secondary diagnosing.

    In 2012, we clearly made a conscious effort to tailor our passing game more to Tevin's strengths and weaknesses...more routes designed to break short, or at least more routes with that option. Tevin got pretty good at reading secondaries, all things considered, and he had good chemistry with a few guys; Orwin being one.

    Vad has a good downfield arm and isn't as great at reading secondaries, so we ran fewer plays with multiple options for receivers and more "look at X" type plays. I thought this approach suited him well but he was handicapped by having only one WR willing and able to consistently fight for the ball. He was also a little tentative about just letting it rip, IMO, a la Nesbitt. Whether that was his lack of confidence in his WRs or what, I don't know.

    Our passing game needs to be more *efficient* than it was in 2013. The coaches need to come up with an approach that suits JT, the WRs, and the O-line, and those guys need to execute. All easier said than done.

    We can have a good, efficient, passing game at 45%. I don't think we did this year
  7. ATL1

    ATL1 Helluva Engineer

    Stylee in the past you posted the run and shoot concepts this offense. Do you still have those links?

    Also CPJ has stated that he wants his QB's to have passer efficientcy ratings yet in 6 seasons this has not materialized. Is there a flaw in the system and can that be remedied.?
  8. stylee

    stylee Helluva Engineer Featured Member

    I don't have links to those, but I can do some new write ups. I'm a big fan of the RNS concepts.
  9. ATL1

    ATL1 Helluva Engineer

    That would be great your boomer and allgt were my favorite post to read on the other board.

    Why are we so inefficient with our passing?
  10. Minawreck

    Minawreck Helluva Engineer

    We've actually been pretty "efficient" passing the ball each year under CPJ, we have high yards/attempt, a decent amount of scores, and not too many INT's. This year was one of our worst though at 122.

    2012: 143.5
    2011: 154.3
    2010: 102
    2009: 148.7
    2008: 112

    these are team pass ratings.
    stylee likes this.
  11. 33jacket

    33jacket Helluva Engineer

    Its the system. 3 qbs all about the same completion percentage. Not sure why its not obvious to all the system is the big issue. We can make tweaks to be better at it. But we really havent yet. Protection scheme, bigger wr in the slot. Throw a TE into the mix. Can still use the base but as is it wont work beyond what we have done. If 6 years doesnt show that nothing will
  12. techman78

    techman78 Helluva Engineer

    What were they like with CCG and Reggie at QB?? Just curious...
  13. Minawreck

    Minawreck Helluva Engineer

    2004: 108.3
    2005: 97.7
    2006: 114.9

    ESPN (where I'm getting the stats) didn't go back to 2003. What hurts us those years is the anemic yards per attempt. Because Ball and Johnson's QB's have pretty much had 1:1 or slightly better TD:INT ratios.
  14. GTRX7

    GTRX7 Helluva Engineer

    According to his bio, Tevin's 2011 passer efficiency rating was 2nd highest in Tech history. He finished his career with the 3rd highest passing efficiency in school history at 142.8. http://www.ramblinwreck.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/tevin_washington_343980.html

    Vad did really well his redshirt sophomore year at 150.47, but inexplicably regressed to 127.5 this year. With that number, it is easy to understand why we didn't want to go pass happy.
  15. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

    We had a lot more short and medium routes this year than in years previous, and yes our completion % was 125th of 125 teams.
  16. Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau

    Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau Banned

    How enjoyable is comparing anything we do with Alabama, Auburn, or FSU? Is it not clear that we are not playing the same game as those folks?
  17. Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau

    Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau Banned

    IMHO a large influence on our passing game is that we have limited practice and teaching time available and our OC chooses to concentrate on the OBS, triple option, wide receiver blocking practice as it relates to the running game, at the expense of practicing passing plays and fundementals. Then when we get to the game, and have a pivotal play situation, CPJ knows we are not reliable in the passing game, so he calls something else. It is a self-fulfilling prophesy. We don't have a good passing attack because we don't practice towards passing success and since we aren't a good passing team, he is reluctant to try it when we really need it. How many 3rd and forever have we attempted a running play?
  18. GTJoeBrew

    GTJoeBrew Helluva Engineer

    At first glance, it seemed like to me that we were passing quite a bit more than usual this year. Looking at the numbers, our attempts the last two years have been about 30-40 more per season. Maybe CPJ was trying to transition the offense to suit Vad? All speculation at this point.

    2013- 203 Attempts
    2012- 194 Attempts
    2011- 167 Attempts
    2010- 168 Attempts
    2009- 168 Attempts
    2008- 165 Attempts
    2007(For Comparison)- 363 Attempts

    IMO I don't really care about the number of attempts, I just want to go back to being able to catch defenses off guard when throwing it. In the first couple of years in the program, it felt like we were always throwing when the defense least expected it, giving us wide open receivers. Now it looks like we throw when everyone in the stadium knows we are going to do it. Turned into a very predictable offense. Maybe with Justin in there we can get back to that with more of a running threat at QB.
  19. gt13

    gt13 Helluva Engineer

    This is actually what I'm hoping for. I know we keep saying we need to pass more, but we didn't pass a whole lot with Nesbitt and we did pretty well. In fact, I would guess those were our most run-heavy years (2008-2010). The way I see it, our three starting quarterbacks since 2008 have all had a very different style of play:

    Nesbitt: he was like a second b-back or fullback. He would just run over people and could almost always get a first down on 4th and short. When he passed, it was usually pretty far downfield, i.e. "the home run ball". I could probably count the number of snaps he took that weren't under center on one hand (if there were any at all).
    Tevin: he was an average runner and an average passer with a great knowledge of the offense. He mixed up the passing a little better than Nesbitt and ran the offense the best of the three, imo. He didn't have breakaway speed or a lot of power though.
    Vad: Probably the best passer out of the three, and showed the potential to be the best runner but (for whatever reason) wasn't much of a threat on the ground. I also feel like he didn't grasp the offense as well as the other two. Our goal with him was (at least from the beginning) to pass more and run some plays out of pistol/the gun.

    Now with Justin, I think we have a fourth type of QB we haven't had: a speed guy. He's the shiftiest and probably fastest player I have ever seen at GT (this only goes back to 2006). I worry about his durability and his passing, but I think that if he can really start executing the offense well and CPJ doesn't screw up he will be the best running QB we've had and, hopefully, a competent passer. I think if we get a couple of a-backs that are really good at blocking and a real big b-back (someone to bowl people over in short yardage situations) we will have a very dynamic running offense - maybe the best running we have had.

    Here's a video I found on YouTube that I think does a good job of showing us what our offense might look like next year.

    Hopefully lots of open running lanes and some opportunities for the short-passing game. We haven't really seen Justin throw the deep ball to any success yet so that is a definite wild card.
  20. alaguy

    alaguy Helluva Engineer

    You called it.If it doesn't work consistently after six yrs,it won't. -for WHATEVER reason. The uga game was best I've seen in a while and we still lost.(oh,yeah the DEF failed us).
    Where was it with 3 minutes to go in bowl game?

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