Pass more?

GTRX7

GTRX7

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In our best years, we have been top 5 in the nation in yards per pass and top 15 in the nation in passing efficiency rating. This year, our yards/pass is good, but our efficiency still isn't. Yards/game doesn't seem to matter as much. Some examples:

2009 - yds/pass #1 & passing rating #12 (yds/game #116)
2014 - yds/pass #3 & passing rating #12 (yds/game #123)
2016 - yds/pass #4 & passing rating #16 (yds/game #124)
2018 - yds/pass # 1 & passing rating #63 (yds/game #127)

Data from (http://www.cfbstats.com/2018/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category02/sort01.html)
 
GTRX7

GTRX7

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Uh, you get that he said "ALL THINGS CONSIDERED." Pretty sure that meant, considering we started 1-3. And, given that start, we finished 6-1. I think most fans should be pretty happy with 6-1.

Now, if he had just said "I am thrilled with this season including the 1-3 start," you might have a point.
 
MidtownJacket

MidtownJacket

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lv20gt said:
Not exactly happy, but I think thrilled falls under the same umbrella.
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SMH.. If you are being serious, polite golf clap if you're posting tic.

The context of this entire argument is wrong. I have not heard anyone parrot the false assertion that some of the anti-coach posters take of "We should be happy to be where we are" or "This is the best we can do". Instead many of us, myself included, have said we need to be more consistent and build momentum as opposed to the cycle of ups and downs we have experienced under coach. During the season is the WRONG time to be addressing or judging the performance of a team because it lacks important data.. ie a 1-3 team looks significantly worse than a 7-4 team who has won 6 of it's last 7. Coach talks about two things I think are extremely important here, and remember unlike the keyboard heroes that we all are in our minds, he has been paid to coach 40+ years.

1) You have to judge a team or a coach by the body of their work.

This is critical, anything short of this induces (intentionally or not) a set of bias that can shape the story beyond the data itself. For example:
Q: would you want a team that goes 1-3 across a 4 game stretch that includes Alcorn State, USF and Pitt?
A: of Course Not.
Q: would you want a team that goes 6-1 across a 7 game stretch including 6 ACC opponents (Louisville, Va Tech, UVA, Miami, UNC and Duke)
A: heck yes!

Spoiler Alert: That is the same team. You can do the same exercise with a team that leads the nation in rushing, or is in the top 10 nationally for defensive take aways, or any other number of stats. The season isn't over yet, so those of us who are reasonable are reserving judgement until it is complete. For now, we encourage the team and pick them up when they lose; we celebrate with them when they win.

2) Expectations have to match commitment.

To me this has always been the crux of the issue. More so then stat picking (which both sides do) because it is about understanding the atmospherics of our situation. I firmly believe we need to increase spending if we want to get back to the level I think we can and should be competing at. For reference, 7 win seasons don't cut it. I believe TStan is the first AD we have had in recent memory (since I started at GT in 2004) that is bringing the $ commitment up to where we have to be for us to win at the level we desire.

That is not an immediate process. What IS immediate is the effect a coach has on the tenor and tone of the team. We have seen CPJ graduate more players than his predecessors in an environment of continued and increased scrutiny. We don't typically have kids who make the press for crimes, but instead for traveling to Puerto Rico to rebuild broken down cities or spending time with and making donations to children hospitals. Our Institute is built on the promise of Progress and Service. Hate or Love CPJ, agree or disagree with his scheme, you can not argue against him living that ethos and instilling / developing / recruiting for it in our young men who represent Georgia Tech. You want to see an immediate effect? Remove the guy who does this and get it wrong by bringing in a coach more focused on the W/L column than the mission of Georgia Tech and you'll see funding dry up and support from the hill get worse. I personally am of the opinion that this is how it should be. This is College Athletics, not the NFL, but I digress.

My point is that we have a coach who utilizes a scheme which is not dependent on the top 100 type guys to win, finally a Defensive coach who is getting takeaways which appear to be scheme related (not all luck) and donors partnering with an AD to bring real $$ to affect change. The alignment of our commitment is approaching the level of our desired results. THIS IS A GOOD THING. It would be premature to move away from the path until we see it won't work. That is a determination for another day and time. Until then.. What's the Good Word?
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

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MidtownJacket said:
SMH.. If you are being serious, polite golf clap if you're posting tic.

The context of this entire argument is wrong. I have not heard anyone parrot the false assertion that some of the anti-coach posters take of "We should be happy to be where we are" or "This is the best we can do". Instead many of us, myself included, have said we need to be more consistent and build momentum as opposed to the cycle of ups and downs we have experienced under coach. During the season is the WRONG time to be addressing or judging the performance of a team because it lacks important data.. ie a 1-3 team looks significantly worse than a 7-4 team who has won 6 of it's last 7. Coach talks about two things I think are extremely important here, and remember unlike the keyboard heroes that we all are in our minds, he has been paid to coach 40+ years.

1) You have to judge a team or a coach by the body of their work.

This is critical, anything short of this induces (intentionally or not) a set of bias that can shape the story beyond the data itself. For example:
Q: would you want a team that goes 1-3 across a 4 game stretch that includes Alcorn State, USF and Pitt?
A: of Course Not.
Q: would you want a team that goes 6-1 across a 7 game stretch including 6 ACC opponents (Louisville, Va Tech, UVA, Miami, UNC and Duke)
A: heck yes!

Spoiler Alert: That is the same team. You can do the same exercise with a team that leads the nation in rushing, or is in the top 10 nationally for defensive take aways, or any other number of stats. The season isn't over yet, so those of us who are reasonable are reserving judgement until it is complete. For now, we encourage the team and pick them up when they lose; we celebrate with them when they win.

2) Expectations have to match commitment.

To me this has always been the crux of the issue. More so then stat picking (which both sides do) because it is about understanding the atmospherics of our situation. I firmly believe we need to increase spending if we want to get back to the level I think we can and should be competing at. For reference, 7 win seasons don't cut it. I believe TStan is the first AD we have had in recent memory (since I started at GT in 2004) that is bringing the $ commitment up to where we have to be for us to win at the level we desire.

That is not an immediate process. What IS immediate is the effect a coach has on the tenor and tone of the team. We have seen CPJ graduate more players than his predecessors in an environment of continued and increased scrutiny. We don't typically have kids who make the press for crimes, but instead for traveling to Puerto Rico to rebuild broken down cities or spending time with and making donations to children hospitals. Our Institute is built on the promise of Progress and Service. Hate or Love CPJ, agree or disagree with his scheme, you can not argue against him living that ethos and instilling / developing / recruiting for it in our young men who represent Georgia Tech. You want to see an immediate effect? Remove the guy who does this and get it wrong by bringing in a coach more focused on the W/L column than the mission of Georgia Tech and you'll see funding dry up and support from the hill get worse. I personally am of the opinion that this is how it should be. This is College Athletics, not the NFL, but I digress.

My point is that we have a coach who utilizes a scheme which is not dependent on the top 100 type guys to win, finally a Defensive coach who is getting takeaways which appear to be scheme related (not all luck) and donors partnering with an AD to bring real $$ to affect change. The alignment of our commitment is approaching the level of our desired results. THIS IS A GOOD THING. It would be premature to move away from the path until we see it won't work. That is a determination for another day and time. Until then.. What's the Good Word?
Click to expand...

TO HELL WITH GEORGIA!!!

And great post.
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

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GTRX7 said:
Uh, you get that he said "ALL THINGS CONSIDERED." Pretty sure that meant, considering we started 1-3. And, given that start, we finished 6-1. I think most fans should be pretty happy with 6-1.

Now, if he had just said "I am thrilled with this season including the 1-3 start," you might have a point.
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He got it.
 
RamblinWreck92

RamblinWreck92

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Truth said:
You say that when you make a comment about offense or play calling you get a flood of personal insults. I think the problem is that your "body of work" has shown you to be strongly opinionated against the coach and the program without basing your comments on data and facts. Sort of like the President vs the democrats. Its gotten to the point that even if he has a good idea and presents it it a sane, respectful manner, they don't want to agree because of all of the other crap he has said and done! And calling people stupid and moron doesn't help win respect.
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100% of my body of work is based upon facts. Things like "The highest ranked team we beat in 2018 so far was UVA at #48" is fact. "We've lost 4 of 5 to Duke" is fact. "VPI is historically bad" is factual - they're headed for their first losing season in almost 3 decades.

If people get to hurl invectives at me first, I see no reason to take the high road in response. But 100% of the time, the defenders of CPJ are the first to go there. It's an interesting observation: A lot of people here get VERY triggered by any suggestion that there's anything wrong with the scheme we run regardless of losses to teams of equal-or-lesser talent like Duke and PITT.

I have given 100% credit to CPJ for turning around our 1-3 start though. I don't hate the guy, have not advocated his firing, and have only suggested a shotgun formation for the possible-generational talent of James Graham, since that's where the kid did most of his damage in HS.

People have different standards and expectations for success and Tech fans aren't different from that. Personally, though the 6-1 finish has been nice, to not win the Coastal this year is pretty lame considering that we absolutely should have. Apparently that belief makes me some sort of Bad Guy. Whatever.

It doesn't matter now though. What does is beating the ****ing mutts on Saturday. If we can pull that off and ruin those *******s' season, I'd consider 2018 a success.
 

g0lftime

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GTRX7 said:
Uh, you get that he said "ALL THINGS CONSIDERED." Pretty sure that meant, considering we started 1-3. And, given that start, we finished 6-1. I think most fans should be pretty happy with 6-1.

Now, if he had just said "I am thrilled with this season including the 1-3 start," you might have a point.
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We are a lot happier than VT and UNC fans right now.
 
RamblinWreck92

RamblinWreck92

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MountainBuzzMan said:
What is wrong with you? The team and coach made a great turn around from what could have been a disaster of a year and all you ever post negative crap. We have a chance for 9 wins this year. (8 more realistically) No one saw that coming at 1 - 3.

Your like a soggy hotdog bun at a bratwurst party.
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What is wrong with you? Stop cherry-picking my replies! I've given credit to CPJ for this turnaround already. That you apparently missed it isn't my fault. If we beat the mutts, 2018 is a success. If not, then it was a year that we should've won the Coastal but didn't. It was a year that our biggest win was over a team ranked #48. A nice turnaround for sure but one that fell short of many posted expectations here and elsewhere. I saw many GT fans predicting 8-9 wins.

I think the difference is that some GT fans are fine with 2nd place and some aren't. Some are Pollyannas and some aren't.

The Pollyannas need to get over themselves.
 
ibeattetris

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RamblinWreck92 said:
What is wrong with you? Stop cherry-picking my replies! I've given credit to CPJ for this turnaround already. That you apparently missed it isn't my fault. If we beat the mutts, 2018 is a success. If not, then it was a year that we should've won the Coastal but didn't. It was a year that our biggest win was over a team ranked #48. A nice turnaround for sure but one that fell short of many posted expectations here and elsewhere. I saw many GT fans predicting 8-9 wins.

I think the difference is that some GT fans are fine with 2nd place and some aren't. Some are Pollyannas and some aren't.

The Pollyannas need to get over themselves.
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If your argument was "fire CPJ because his defenses and special teams consistently suck" I wouldn't say a word. I disagree with that being a good choice since he is trying to find a DC worth a lick, but it certainly has merit since he has failed every time (please Nate be our savior).

Saying CPJ's offensive scheme sucks because we don't pass more is just wrong. Our offense is in the top 25 in both efficiency metrics in both per play and per drive metrics. The offense just isn't the part of CPJ that needs to be criticized. We certainly need to be better at passing. If we pass 8 times like we did against VT, we need to hit 5 of them. 1/8 is not good. But you haven't argued we need to be better, just that we should do it more. I want coach to call the plays that cause us to score points. If that is a pass then let it fly. If it's a "qb keep" as you call it, then run it up.
 
ibeattetris

ibeattetris

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RamblinWreck92 said:
No shotgun for Graham? :D

Agreed- **** the dawgs. god it'd be nice to ruin their stupid season and lives.
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I don't think adding a shotgun would be a bad choice. Navy and Army do it sometimes (though rarely). I don't know how it could be phrased in a CPJ radio show to not make CPJ defensive, but I would like to know why Army and Navy sometimes do it, but we don't.
 

Yaller Jacket

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Let me change this discussion a little. A few times last week PJ called some pass plays not on 3rd and long. I just knew we were fixing to see a nice gain and maybe change how they were playing our running game. The protection was good enough to get the pass off in rhythm, but Taquon didn't throw it. I can only assume that even with one man coverage, our receivers didn't have the speed or moves to work free. Is that the main reason why PJ continues to try variations in the run game this year instead of more passes even when the defense dictates the pass?
 
ibeattetris

ibeattetris

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Yaller Jacket said:
Let me change this discussion a little. A few times last week PJ called some pass plays not on 3rd and long. I just knew we were fixing to see a nice gain and maybe change how they were playing our running game. The protection was good enough to get the pass off in rhythm, but Taquon didn't throw it. I can only assume that even with one man coverage, our receivers didn't have the speed or moves to work free. Is that the main reason why PJ continues to try variations in the run game this year instead of more passes even when the defense dictates the pass?
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In either radio show or post game interview (can't remember), CPJ said Marshall couldn't see an open AB because he didn't have a lane to see him. We have to remember that Marshall is only listed as 5'10. Coach also said there was one that just needed to be thrown but wasn't.

Marshall certainly tries his hardest on every play, but passing just isn't something he is suited to do 20 times a day.
 
stech81

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ibeattetris said:
I don't think adding a shotgun would be a bad choice. Navy and Army do it sometimes (though rarely). I don't know how it could be phrased in a CPJ radio show to not make CPJ defensive, but I would like to know why Army and Navy sometimes do it, but we don't.
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Tell 680 said he couldn't do it and make it work.
 
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