Parker Braun transferring

[Gtbowhunter90]

Wow listening to this guy speak, it makes you realize he is the kind of person you want to represent your program. I hate he is leaving. I wish him well

Yeeupp.... hes the absolute man. Gonna miss his leadership

 

[64jacket]

I think it's 14 pages too long tbh. If he doesn't wanna be here then oh well. Thanks for your time and effort, best of luck in your future endeavors.

Thank you Milwaukee.

 

[takethepoints]

Our attendance, and one could argue our national brand issues, goes all the way back to a selfish decision a former Coach/AD made years ago that almost decimated our program.

https://www.ajc.com/sports/fifty-years-ago-georgia-tech-left-the-sec/07w1mrefY4QgzlmzzSXr9O/

And yada, yada, yada.

Dodd had his reasons and, given the rules in those days, they were good ones. He had always had trouble with the admissions standards at Tech. (What!?! That far back? Yes.) What was happening with the SEC 140 rule was two things at once. First, teams were cycling players, just like they do today, and, just like today, Tech wouldn't do it. Second, teams were recruiting players not so much to play them as to keep other teams from getting them. So players would be recruited, then dropped by teams after their rivals had moved on and weren't interested any more. (Just as an aside, I went to Sewanee in 1964. Coach Majors had active recruiting contacts at SEC and ACC schools looking for players who had been recruited for just this purpose that he could try to get them to come to the Mountain. It worked. The team I played on in 1964 had 18 former SEC/ACC recruits on its starting 22. We went 9 - 1 that year.)

Dodd didn't want to go independent, but he had a problem with continuing to play at a competitive disadvantage against the SEC. There was support for getting rid of the 140 rule, as the article says; many school presidents wanted to see it go. Further, given Tech's prestige mentioned in the article, some thought that Tech could become the Notre Dame of the South. But none of that worked out, for reasons given in the article. Especially harmful was the great sigh of relief going up from former SEC rivals now that they would not have to coach against Bobby Dodd again; they dropped Tech like a hot potato.

Well, this has, in fact, worked out ok for Tech. It is true that Ugag has more fans, but that was in the cards anyhow. If Tech had stayed in the SEC we would have faced the same situation we do today and against more ruthless recruiting machines then ever in evidence then. And we've done well in the ACC.

It wasn't selfishness, iow; it was a reluctance to race to the bottom.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I really think the attendance issues (in terms of #’s are overblown). Washington State has a great home field advantage but it’s because their stadium is “right-sized.” UW has more fans in-state but they don’t dominate the crowd at the Apple Cup.

GT needs to downsize BDS IMO. Maybe not from a size perspective but put in chairbacks to reduce capacity. Less fans needed to make it look good + nicer fan experience = win-win.

You haven’t actually been inside BDS in a while I gather. It not only the number of fans. It’s also how the fans behave in the stands. VPI has a football atmosphere. BDS has a tennis match atmosphere.

 

[Techster]

And yada, yada, yada.

Dodd had his reasons and, given the rules in those days, they were good ones. He had always had trouble with the admissions standards at Tech. (What!?! That far back? Yes.) What was happening with the SEC 140 rule was two things at once. First, teams were cycling players, just like they do today, and, just like today, Tech wouldn't do it. Second, teams were recruiting players not so much to play them as to keep other teams from getting them. So players would be recruited, then dropped by teams after their rivals had moved on and weren't interested any more. (Just as an aside, I went to Sewanee in 1964. Coach Majors had active recruiting contacts at SEC and ACC schools looking for players who had been recruited for just this purpose that he could try to get them to come to the Mountain. It worked. The team I played on in 1964 had 18 former SEC/ACC recruits on its starting 22. We went 9 - 1 that year.)

Dodd didn't want to go independent, but he had a problem with continuing to play at a competitive disadvantage against the SEC. There was support for getting rid of the 140 rule, as the article says; many school presidents wanted to see it go. Further, given Tech's prestige mentioned in the article, some thought that Tech could become the Notre Dame of the South. But none of that worked out, for reasons given in the article. Especially harmful was the great sigh of relief going up from former SEC rivals now that they would not have to coach against Bobby Dodd again; they dropped Tech like a hot potato.

Well, this has, in fact, worked out ok for Tech. It is true that Ugag has more fans, but that was in the cards anyhow. If Tech had stayed in the SEC we would have faced the same situation we do today and against more ruthless recruiting machines then ever in evidence then. And we've done well in the ACC.

It wasn't selfishness, iow; it was a reluctance to race to the bottom.

No, Dodd made it personal with Bear Bryant and 'Bama (they had a history of having "personal" problems). Instead of working within the system, Dodd took his ball and went home. Dodd, and GT fans in general, was an elitist and thought because he was Dodd and GT was "GT" they could dictate rules (remember, BDS was where teams wanted to play because of size of the stadium and population of Atlanta). Dodd did not know how to read the room because MANY in college football wanted that rule instituted back then because precisely what Dodd said: Some schools were abusing it and costing other schools talent.

The irony, and the slap in the face to GT, was the rule Dodd wanted instituted and pulled GT out of SEC for was approved a few years later. So Dodd ultimately cut GT's nose off to spite our face. By doing that, it ultimately cost GT untold millions (by my estimation, in the hundreds), lost prestige, and lost fanbase.

Bottom line: Dodd wasn't patient enough to work within the system, threw a fit over a rule that would be enacted anyhow a few years later, and pulled GT out of the SEC.

Morally he was right, but in terms of making a business decision that was best for GT...well, he failed miserably and cost GT in so many ways that we are still trying to recover. Do you think it was worth it? Were those precious few years of being able to stand on the moral high ground worth it?

IMO, HECK FRIGGIN NO!

 

[ibeattetris]

No, Dodd made it personal with Bear Bryant and 'Bama (they had a history of having "personal" problems). Instead of working within the system, Dodd took his ball and went home. Dodd, and GT fans in general, was an elitist and thought because he was Dodd and GT was "GT" they could dictate rules (remember, BDS was where teams wanted to play because of size of the stadium and population of Atlanta). Dodd did not know how to read the room because MANY in college football wanted that rule instituted back then because precisely what Dodd said: Some schools were abusing it and costing other schools talent.

The irony, and the slap in the face to GT, was the rule Dodd wanted instituted and pulled GT out of SEC for was approved a few years later. So Dodd ultimately cut GT's nose off to spite our face. By doing that, it ultimately cost GT untold millions (by my estimation, in the hundreds), lost prestige, and lost fanbase.

Bottom line: Dodd wasn't patient enough to work within the system, threw a fit over a rule that would be enacted anyhow a few years later, and pulled GT out of the SEC.

Morally he was right, but in terms of making a business decision that was best for GT...well, he failed miserably and cost GT in so many ways that we are still trying to recover. Do you think it was worth it? Were those precious few years of being able to stand on the moral high ground worth it?

IMO, HECK FRIGGIN NO!

I'm glad we aren't in the SEC. **** them.

 

[Techster]

I'm glad we aren't in the SEC. **** them.

I think GT fits with the ACC more than the SEC, but the cost to get here wasn't worth it.

 

[Bogey]

No, Dodd made it personal with Bear Bryant and 'Bama (they had a history of having "personal" problems). Instead of working within the system, Dodd took his ball and went home. Dodd, and GT fans in general, was an elitist and thought because he was Dodd and GT was "GT" they could dictate rules (remember, BDS was where teams wanted to play because of size of the stadium and population of Atlanta). Dodd did not know how to read the room because MANY in college football wanted that rule instituted back then because precisely what Dodd said: Some schools were abusing it and costing other schools talent.

The irony, and the slap in the face to GT, was the rule Dodd wanted instituted and pulled GT out of SEC for was approved a few years later. So Dodd ultimately cut GT's nose off to spite our face. By doing that, it ultimately cost GT untold millions (by my estimation, in the hundreds), lost prestige, and lost fanbase.

Bottom line: Dodd wasn't patient enough to work within the system, threw a fit over a rule that would be enacted anyhow a few years later, and pulled GT out of the SEC.

Morally he was right, but in terms of making a business decision that was best for GT...well, he failed miserably and cost GT in so many ways that we are still trying to recover. Do you think it was worth it? Were those precious few years of being able to stand on the moral high ground worth it?

IMO, HECK FRIGGIN NO!

Actually there were several reasons Different pulled us out whether you believe it or not. Schloarship limits was one but he was also concerned about the Falcons coming to town, the fact that Atlanta was becoming cosmopolitan, and that college football was going to 2 platoons. He realized Tech would not be competitive in the SEC with the scholarship limitation and having to field 2 platoons. He felt that by becoming independent and playing a national schedule, we could attract recruits nation wide, and appeal to a cosmopolitan Atlanta. Didn't work out exactly but we ended up where we belong in the ACC. For most of Dodd's career, he worked without a contract, and only got one in his last years at the insistence of his financial advisor(s). Bobby Dodd deserves respect and gratitude from every Tech fan for his accomplishments and dedication to Georgia Tech.

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[Techster]

Actually there were several reasons Different pulled us out whether you believe it or not. Schloarship limits was one but he was also concerned about the Falcons coming to town, the fact that Atlanta was becoming cosmopolitan, and that college football was going to 2 platoons. He realized Tech would not be competitive in the SEC with the scholarship limitation and having to field 2 platoons. He felt that by becoming independent and playing a national schedule, we could attract recruits nation wide, and appeal to a cosmopolitan Atlanta. Didn't work out exactly but we ended up where we belong in the ACC. For most of Dodd's career, he worked without a contract, and only got one in his last years at the insistence of his financial advisor(s). Bobby Dodd deserves respect and gratitude from every Tech fan for his accomplishments and dedication to Georgia Tech.

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The "pro football" thing is an overplayed, and over estimated excuse for GT fans. SEC and college football will always be king in the South, especially in a city like Atlanta where all the major school's in the Southeast have a large alumni presence. That's why you see SEC championships draw as big of a crowd as the Super Bowl...maybe not the media blitz, but in terms of visiting fans, SEC championships bring in a tremendous crowd that rivals the Super Bowl. From the article, GT has MORE living alumni, MORE active students than we did when we left the SEC, yet our average attendance the year before we left was GREATER than it is now. Think about that.

The Falcons have always been terrible at drawing in fans when they are not good. Let's also remember, the Falcons didn't come until AFTER GT left the SEC. In that sense, not only did GT cede Atlanta to UGA, but also the Falcons. In terms of pro sports, Atlanta has always been a fairweather crowd. On top of that, Falcons games were not that well attended. It use to be a joke when visiting teams came into Fulton County stadium that they could hear the plays called from the other side of the sideline because the stadium was almost empty.

As far as being competitive, read the article:

Said Ginn: “People today probably don’t even know Georgia Tech was in the SEC. If they do, they assume they got out because they weren’t competitive.”

That wasn’t the case. As Ginn wrote: “Since 1951 (through 1963), Tech football was 6-3-1 versus Tennessee, 7-2-2 against Florida, 6-6-1 against Auburn, 7-6 against Alabama and 9-4 against state-rival Georgia. Tech football had been ranked in the top 20 each of these years and had won the national championship in 1952.”

GT fans tell ourselves that GT leaving the SEC was good because of where the conference was going, but the reality is GT was college football and SEC royalty and every bit on the same level as Alabama back then. We tell ourselves that it was in GT's best interest to leave the SEC because we want to feel better about what bone headed and financially ruinous decision it was. One of the reasons why we are constantly playing catch up to the factories in facilities is because we spent 2 decades losing money being an independent. BDS was the capital of football in the South and the place where all teams wanted to play at because of how much more revenue playing here brought in. GT could have improved on our position, instead we ended up losing money to the point our program almost had to drop a level. We gave that up because Dodd wanted to play the moral authority and took his ball and tried to dictate rules to everyone...when everyone was envious of us.

Dodd is one of my coaches of GT's Mt Rushmore, but what he did as an AD will always haunt GT. Doesn't matter if the ACC took us in 2 decades later, what we gave up from our journey to the SEC to the ACC almost knocked out this program, and definitely cost us a tremendous amount of money and prestige.

I would argue GT has always been haunted by deifying coaches, and giving them too much power. You only have to look at the amount of "dead" money we've paid coaches throughout the years to realize that GT is in a lot of ways our own worst enemy.

 

[bobongo]

Actually there were several reasons Different pulled us out whether you believe it or not. Schloarship limits was one but he was also concerned about the Falcons coming to town, the fact that Atlanta was becoming cosmopolitan, and that college football was going to 2 platoons. He realized Tech would not be competitive in the SEC with the scholarship limitation and having to field 2 platoons. He felt that by becoming independent and playing a national schedule, we could attract recruits nation wide, and appeal to a cosmopolitan Atlanta. Didn't work out exactly but we ended up where we belong in the ACC. For most of Dodd's career, he worked without a contract, and only got one in his last years at the insistence of his financial advisor(s). Bobby Dodd deserves respect and gratitude from every Tech fan for his accomplishments and dedication to Georgia Tech.

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I have a different take as to the pro teams coming to town. They didn't arrive until '66, but Tech left the SEC in '63.
I don't know that Dodd saw it coming, but the pro teams had a big part in making life difficult for Tech after independence. I agree that he made the right move at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[heyhellowhatsup]

You haven’t actually been inside BDS in a while I gather. It not only the number of fans. It’s also how the fans behave in the stands. VPI has a football atmosphere. BDS has a tennis match atmosphere.

No, I have been inside BDS recently. I agree that it's not very raucous. But lots of schools have that issue... Notre Dame, Michigan, and Texas all are pretty quiet stadiums for their size.

 

[Animal02]

I have a different take as to the pro teams coming to town. They didn't arrive until '66, but Tech left the SEC in '63.
I don't know that Dodd saw it coming, but the pro teams had a big part in making life difficult for Tech after independence. I agree that he made the right move at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

Pro teams made it difficult for a couple of reasons.......first.....competing for entertainment dollars.....second....with Pro Football becoming a career path.....getting a good education lost its appeal.....the same reason Army, Navy and the Ivy league declined.

 

[Bogey]

I have a different take as to the pro teams coming to town. They didn't arrive until '66, but Tech left the SEC in '63.
I don't know that Dodd saw it coming, but the pro teams had a big part in making life difficult for Tech after independence. I agree that he made the right move at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

Actually the Falcons were born in June 1965 and Tech left SEC in 1964. He definitely saw it coming.

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[Bogey]

The "pro football" thing is an overplayed, and over estimated excuse for GT fans. SEC and college football will always be king in the South, especially in a city like Atlanta where all the major school's in the Southeast have a large alumni presence. That's why you see SEC championships draw as big of a crowd as the Super Bowl...maybe not the media blitz, but in terms of visiting fans, SEC championships bring in a tremendous crowd that rivals the Super Bowl. From the article, GT has MORE living alumni, MORE active students than we did when we left the SEC, yet our average attendance the year before we left was GREATER than it is now. Think about that.

The Falcons have always been terrible at drawing in fans when they are not good. Let's also remember, the Falcons didn't come until AFTER GT left the SEC. In that sense, not only did GT cede Atlanta to UGA, but also the Falcons. In terms of pro sports, Atlanta has always been a fairweather crowd. On top of that, Falcons games were not that well attended. It use to be a joke when visiting teams came into Fulton County stadium that they could hear the plays called from the other side of the sideline because the stadium was almost empty.

As far as being competitive, read the article:

Said Ginn: “People today probably don’t even know Georgia Tech was in the SEC. If they do, they assume they got out because they weren’t competitive.”

That wasn’t the case. As Ginn wrote: “Since 1951 (through 1963), Tech football was 6-3-1 versus Tennessee, 7-2-2 against Florida, 6-6-1 against Auburn, 7-6 against Alabama and 9-4 against state-rival Georgia. Tech football had been ranked in the top 20 each of these years and had won the national championship in 1952.”

GT fans tell ourselves that GT leaving the SEC was good because of where the conference was going, but the reality is GT was college football and SEC royalty and every bit on the same level as Alabama back then. We tell ourselves that it was in GT's best interest to leave the SEC because we want to feel better about what bone headed and financially ruinous decision it was. One of the reasons why we are constantly playing catch up to the factories in facilities is because we spent 2 decades losing money being an independent. BDS was the capital of football in the South and the place where all teams wanted to play at because of how much more revenue playing here brought in. GT could have improved on our position, instead we ended up losing money to the point our program almost had to drop a level. We gave that up because Dodd wanted to play the moral authority and took his ball and tried to dictate rules to everyone...when everyone was envious of us.

Dodd is one of my coaches of GT's Mt Rushmore, but what he did as an AD will always haunt GT. Doesn't matter if the ACC took us in 2 decades later, what we gave up from our journey to the SEC to the ACC almost knocked out this program, and definitely cost us a tremendous amount of money and prestige.

I would argue GT has always been haunted by deifying coaches, and giving them too much power. You only have to look at the amount of "dead" money we've paid coaches throughout the years to realize that GT is in a lot of ways our own worst enemy.

You are wrong about him doing it for a moral victory. His concerns, which I stated in my post were legitimate. As bobongo stated, hindsight is always 20/20.

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[Whiskey_Clear]

No, I have been inside BDS recently. I agree that it's not very raucous. But lots of schools have that issue... Notre Dame, Michigan, and Texas all are pretty quiet stadiums for their size.

Disagree. But you don’t have to be big to be loud. We should all know this very well.

 

[Techster]

You are wrong about him doing it for a moral victory. His concerns, which I stated in my post were legitimate. As bobongo stated, hindsight is always 20/20.

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I'm not saying they were not. My argument was EVERYONE had the same concerns but Dodd chose not to work within the system and was arrogant enough to think GT could dictate rules. That goes to my comment on "reading the room". The rules that Dodd fought for were inevitable since every school not named Alabama wanted them. GT didn't make many friends with our arrogance (as we saw in later years when the SEC voted TWICE to not let us back in), so it's probably not surprising the rest of the SEC was happy to see us leave.

You can say hindsight is 20/20, but look at it from the outside:

1. GT was one of the best programs in the SEC at the time.
2. GT played in probably the best stadium in the largest SEC market.
3. GT was a prestigious program on the NATIONAL level at the time.
4. GT was still winning at a VERY good clip the 10 years before we left ( https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/georgia-tech/index.html )
5. GT was one of the most profitable programs in the nation, not just the SEC.

So tell me, what exactly did we cut our own noses off for? Why was it so important to leave because we lost a vote and couldn't work inside the system?

The bigger question is, what exactly did Dodd and GT "win" by leaving the SEC? Where's our moral championship trophy? I certainly don't see it hung up with our championship banners at BDS.

From a moral standpoint, Dodd was every bit in the right to feel what he felt. From a business standpoint, Dodd was every bit wrong in making the decision he did. I'm not sure why there's any argument there...all you have to do is to look at how GT was easily an elite NATIONAL program at the time, and we almost had to give up big time football two decades later.

It's even more insane given the fact that Dodd would have gotten EXACTLY what he wanted had he waited just a few years. I mean, it boggles my mind that Dodd's decision is even defensible from a business standpoint.

 

[GTRX7]

FWIW, integration in college football happened in the south about the same time (late 1960s - early 1970s). That dramatically impacted the sport and its hierarchy of winning teams. Factor that in however you want (or not at all). Just worth mentioning as a potential factor in determining whether we still would have been an "elite" SEC program had we stayed.

 

[lauraee]

Disagree. But you don’t have to be big to be loud. We should all know this very well.

See puke with Cameron.

 

[iceeater1969]

I'm not saying they were not. My argument was EVERYONE had the same concerns but Dodd chose not to work within the system and was arrogant enough to think GT could dictate rules. That goes to my comment on "reading the room". The rules that Dodd fought for were inevitable since every school not named Alabama wanted them. GT didn't make many friends with our arrogance (as we saw in later years when the SEC voted TWICE to not let us back in), so it's probably not surprising the rest of the SEC was happy to see us leave.

You can say hindsight is 20/20, but look at it from the outside:

1. GT was one of the best programs in the SEC at the time.
2. GT played in probably the best stadium in the largest SEC market.
3. GT was a prestigious program on the NATIONAL level at the time.
4. GT was still winning at a VERY good clip the 10 years before we left ( https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/georgia-tech/index.html )
5. GT was one of the most profitable programs in the nation, not just the SEC.

So tell me, what exactly did we cut our own noses off for? Why was it so important to leave because we lost a vote and couldn't work inside the system?

The bigger question is, what exactly did Dodd and GT "win" by leaving the SEC? Where's our moral championship trophy? I certainly don't see it hung up with our championship banners at BDS.

From a moral standpoint, Dodd was every bit in the right to feel what he felt. From a business standpoint, Dodd was every bit wrong in making the decision he did. I'm not sure why there's any argument there...all you have to do is to look at how GT was easily an elite NATIONAL program at the time, and we almost had to give up big time football two decades later.

It's even more insane given the fact that Dodd would have gotten EXACTLY what he wanted had he waited just a few years. I mean, it boggles my mind that Dodd's decision is even defensible from a business standpoint.

I liked this and agree with points you make. Well stated .
There must be another point that Dodd was aware of that s not being considered.
.

 

[Techster]

FWIW, integration in college football happened in the south about the same time (late 1960s - early 1970s). That dramatically impacted the sport and its hierarchy of winning teams. Factor that in however you want (or not at all). Just worth mentioning as a potential factor in determining whether we still would have been an "elite" SEC program had we stayed.

GT did have the first black starting QB in the South...Eddie McAshan. Also, GT refused to play at schools west of Mississippi due to their policy on segregation. GT was at the forefront of racial integration in sports (though part of the motivation was $$$). This is something I just found out, but very cool:

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/01/...ted-a-game-and-earned-the-worlds-respect.html

Part of GT's "northern school" reputation stems from our stances during that time.

Man, this thread sure took some turns...