Our Offense

B Lifsey

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,375
Location
Barnesville, Georgia
The thing that gets me is that there is no back up plan.
if the run isn't there, its over. There is no plan B or adjustment.
I know I know.. Plan B distracts from plan A, I get it.

But what do you do when plan A is shot?

he was running for his life every play. It was awful.
You've lost me...
Plan A is the run but it is shot. We have no Plan B which would be pass?

But, he's running for his life trying to pass?
 

RedPete

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
944
Location
Atlanta, GA
Are the coaches/fans satisfied with W's vs. weaker teams only and 7-5 or 6-6 .

Remember last year's lowly 3-9 team knocked-off New Years Six bound Florida State. Sure it was a miracle but anything can happen. Don't count out our boys just yet.

Btw this year Georgia is also looking like a 6-6 or 7-5 team so far. Heck they're only ranked because of the legacy Richt left. Dwag fans desperately NEED a surprise upset like that to validate firing him.
 

alagold

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,148
Location
Huntsville,Al
I wonder if Parker Braun will get the start against Miami... I know S. Devine was a 4 star, however it seems he has a problem blocking people...

Also I wonder if MJ and JT needs to split time like Tevin and Vad... It appears to me JT does not get downhill on QB runs the way he did in 2014... MJ is bigger and may be able to take the pounding..
I wonder if Parker Braun will get the start against Miami... I know S. Devine was a 4 star, however it seems he has a problem blocking people...

Also I wonder if MJ and JT needs to split time like Tevin and Vad... It appears to me JT does not get downhill on QB runs the way he did in 2014... MJ is bigger and may be able to take the pounding..

In the Vandy game I saw 350 lb Shamire getting stood up twice in a series by a 290 lb DT.That shouldn't happen.
 

first&ten

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
706
Come on guys. The problem is Paul Johnson and the TO. He is not going to change, he doesn't know anything else. Recruiting is the major problem and most highschool players are not going to sign on because they do not like his offense. He is going down with the ship trying to prove his system will work. So keep banging your head thinking things are going to get better. For the most part Tech will always be a 7/5 team.
 

gtg936g

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,033
I am not sure I think there is a problem with the O line personally... Are there mental mistakes? Yes, but the real issue in my mind is we are asking OL to block LBs in space. When those LBs are really fast and good with their feet we really struggle. IMO we are not as out manned as it looks. When it is 3rd and 3, and we get 4 yards on a dive, that is not being out manned IMO. Before the season started, I asked about how we get to the MLB. That was the problem last year, and it is the problem this year. When the LBs are good tacklers and athletic, they can out maneuver our OL that are trying to block them.

I think we actually saw the answer last night, it was just a little late in the game. Those power runs by Mills (who I think is a difference maker, in a big way) on non option plays will force the LBs to play honest. Mills takes more than one person to bring down. He is the missing element IMO; if the LB shoots to the alley on what looks like an option and the WLB is left to bring down Mills in space.... that is a tough challenge. Clemson was probably better able to do that than any team we are going to face, and it cost them the only TD they gave up. We have not had a BB that could hit a home run or run over people like Mills since JD. So, more power runs inside to make the MLB stay at home would be my answer. Make those MLBs stay at home a split second longer to make sure it is really an option play, and then our OL have a chance to get to them in space. It is not a threat we have had in a while.

If I knew anything about drawing up plays, I would be doing it instead of talking about people that do. It is just my .02 and something I have thought a lot about over the off season and today.

@Boomergump @stylee I am interested on your thoughts/input here as well.
 

jeffgt14

We Suck
Messages
5,400
Location
Mt Juliet, TN
I am not sure I think there is a problem with the O line personally... Are there mental mistakes? Yes, but the real issue in my mind is we are asking OL to block LBs in space. When those LBs are really fast and good with their feet we really struggle. IMO we are not as out manned as it looks. When it is 3rd and 3, and we get 4 yards on a dive, that is not being out manned IMO. Before the season started, I asked about how we get to the MLB. That was the problem last year, and it is the problem this year. When the LBs are good tacklers and athletic, they can out maneuver our OL that are trying to block them.

I think we actually saw the answer last night, it was just a little late in the game. Those power runs by Mills (who I think is a difference maker, in a big way) on non option plays will force the LBs to play honest. Mills takes more than one person to bring down. He is the missing element IMO; if the LB shoots to the alley on what looks like an option and the WLB is left to bring down Mills in space.... that is a tough challenge. Clemson was probably better able to do that than any team we are going to face, and it cost them the only TD they gave up. We have not had a BB that could hit a home run or run over people like Mills since JD. So, more power runs inside to make the MLB stay at home would be my answer. Make those MLBs stay at home a split second longer to make sure it is really an option play, and then our OL have a chance to get to them in space. It is not a threat we have had in a while.

If I knew anything about drawing up plays, I would be doing it instead of talking about people that do. It is just my .02 and something I have thought a lot about over the off season and today.

@Boomergump @stylee I am interested on your thoughts/input here as well.
If blocking LB’s in space was the O-line’s only problem then we’d all be happy because that would be they are actually getting to the LB’s. It’s the O-line trying to block the D-line that’s the problem. Agree the designed runs for Mills helped a ton. It was also nice having a pulling guard to help lead the way. That was something Shaq did very well.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,601
CPJ has beaten teams just as talented, if not more, than the Clemson team we got spanked by last night. Posters are acting like CPJ has never seen the talent we were up against last night. Unless you forget, the NFL is littered with Clemson DLs....one of which is making his living for the local pro team. How about FSU? Miami? UGA? Miss St in the OB?

You can't say "This is the most talented GT team and the deepest CPJ has had" and then say we lack the talent to beat a team like Clemson when that's exactly what we've done before.

The fact is, we got out-coached, and Clemson players did their jobs better than our guys did their jobs. I didn't see many times their players just physically whipped our players. I can't tell you how many times Clemson let Shamire go untouched to the second level and filled in behind him. How about running a QB follow behind Shamire with the BB taking on the guy filling the hole and JeT/MJ getting the easy 5+ yards? Clemson didn't want any part of Shamire because as talented as Clemson is, Shamire is probably equally as talented. Clemson is swarming to one side? How about a counter bootleg with a QB run/pass option to the opposite side of the motion?

This offense works. It's just that sometimes I feel like CPJ draws up his plays during the week and is slow to deviate from them and it's the 4th quarter before he tries to change it up with players a little deeper in the playbook. That's exactly what happened last night. How about try the counter motion earlier if you're trying to slow down their attacking defense? Your best offensive player is JeT...roll him out, and slide protection to give him a run/pass option. I'd take my chances with Jet to 1/3rd of the field than dropping him straight back and getting hemmed into the narrow space between the tackles.

If this offense is suppose to neutralize superior talent, and it's not doing that, it's going to get ugly. I don't think it's a scheme problem, It's an execution and stubborness of going away from a rigid mindset. And by that I don't mean Mills's BB pass...lord, don't get started on that crap...
 

Rock

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
615
Come on guys. The problem is Paul Johnson and the TO. He is not going to change, he doesn't know anything else. Recruiting is the major problem and most highschool players are not going to sign on because they do not like his offense. He is going down with the ship trying to prove his system will work. So keep banging your head thinking things are going to get better. For the most part Tech will always be a 7/5 team.

Easy..lol

I said that last year and made people angry.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,658
Did shamire get injured besides time he hurt ankle? Son watched game and said ge did good nob but was playing hurt.

What about Marshall? Late in game saw him take self out - holding shoulder.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
So where do we go from here? How do you improve the O line (short of firing)?
Are the coaches/fans satisfied with W's vs. weaker teams only and 7-5 or 6-6 seasons?
That's the million dollar question. Or more accurately, about $3.02 million per year question.
 

Chris Freeman

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
128
Location
Hampton, Georgia
I get what you're saying but it comes down to one thing imo, the offensive line. Yes, Sewak needs to go, he's horrible, but more than that it's the type of lineman we go after. Maybe that's not fair, CPJ would love a line full of 5 star, NFL caliber players but that's not going to happen. Regardless, we've got to stop going after theses "smaller, quicker guys that can get to the second level" which is code for guys the big schools don't want because they're too small. Besides, it's been a year and 4 games since I've seen our line, and by line I mean Shaq Mason, consistently get to the second level. Any MLB worth a crap is running all over the field on us. We've got to get bigger, better lineman if we are going to have any real success going forward. They don't have to be 310 lb, 5 star recruits but we need to be living in the 4 star range in this department, and yes I realize that Mason was a 3 star but he was also 300+ lbs coming out of high school and one guy... and will somebody please, for the love of all that is holy, fire Sewak!
 

MWBATL

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,443
First...I have not read the entire thread...mea culpa in advance.

I said this is the post game thread just a few minutes ago....but I too have wearied of our offense like the OP. For our offense to work it seems we need 5 or 6 guys to execute well on a play...the QB, B Back, A Back, WR receiver (blocking) and at least a couple of linemen blocking. To execute a short passing attack like Clemson showed last night, you need 2 guys executing at a high level..the QB and WR. On half of their passes, their O line could have been statues...it was out of Watson's hands so fact no one could get a rush on him. That appeals to me, as it appears that GT will never be willing to do what it takes to have lines comparable to the better teams we play.

Moreover, if our running game is stuffed, the process of watching our QB drop back under a ferocious pass rush is downright discouraging. The shotgun puts any passing QB in a MUCH better place for passing...but we won't do that. Ever.

I am over it. Our offensive scheme was suppose dot help us negate physical disadvantages that we will always face against the teams we play. I think these little 5 year throws from the shotgun have a much better chance of working.

Certainly don't think we would have won this game under any circumstances, but after watching for all the years under CPJ, I have simply concluded that this scheme does not appear to offer us any advantages over other offensive schemes, and in fact seems outdated and more complicated than some of the passing schemes out there. Bring on the Run n Shoot!

Bottom line tough is simple.....you can talk all you want about concepts...we simply have been shut down offensively in the last two years in ways that have been embarrassing and frustrating in the extreme. Notre Dame, Georgia, Miami, Clemson (twice now) and even Duke all shut us down on offense. It is of course never fun to watch a lousy offense (I remember Gailey's offenses), but this one just isn't working anymore. That it might work well enough to beat Duke and Ga Southern and Virginina and maybe even Pitt to get us to 7-5 this win is no great encouragement to me, as I suspect it will be shat down pretty badly in the other games by Miami, Georgia, VPI&SU and maybe even UNC.

I'm over it.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
CPJ has beaten teams just as talented, if not more, than the Clemson team we got spanked by last night. Posters are acting like CPJ has never seen the talent we were up against last night. Unless you forget, the NFL is littered with Clemson DLs....one of which is making his living for the local pro team. How about FSU? Miami? UGA? Miss St in the OB?

You can't say "This is the most talented GT team and the deepest CPJ has had" and then say we lack the talent to beat a team like Clemson when that's exactly what we've done before.

The fact is, we got out-coached, and Clemson players did their jobs better than our guys did their jobs. I didn't see many times their players just physically whipped our players. I can't tell you how many times Clemson let Shamire go untouched to the second level and filled in behind him. How about running a QB follow behind Shamire with the BB taking on the guy filling the hole and JeT/MJ getting the easy 5+ yards? Clemson didn't want any part of Shamire because as talented as Clemson is, Shamire is probably equally as talented. Clemson is swarming to one side? How about a counter bootleg with a QB run/pass option to the opposite side of the motion?

This offense works. It's just that sometimes I feel like CPJ draws up his plays during the week and is slow to deviate from them and it's the 4th quarter before he tries to change it up with players a little deeper in the playbook. That's exactly what happened last night. How about try the counter motion earlier if you're trying to slow down their attacking defense? Your best offensive player is JeT...roll him out, and slide protection to give him a run/pass option. I'd take my chances with Jet to 1/3rd of the field than dropping him straight back and getting hemmed into the narrow space between the tackles.

If this offense is suppose to neutralize superior talent, and it's not doing that, it's going to get ugly. I don't think it's a scheme problem, It's an execution and stubborness of going away from a rigid mindset. And by that I don't mean Mills's BB pass...lord, don't get started on that crap...

As someone who once wasted a lot of time reverse engineering a hydromechanical problem before discovering a simple part was broken, sometimes simple solutions are correct. It's a faulty part, not design.
 

GTFLETCH

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,567
Come on guys. The problem is Paul Johnson and the TO. He is not going to change, he doesn't know anything else. Recruiting is the major problem and most highschool players are not going to sign on because they do not like his offense. He is going down with the ship trying to prove his system will work. So keep banging your head thinking things are going to get better. For the most part Tech will always be a 7/5 team.

The problem with your Argument is that Paul Johnson has won an ACC title..been to 2 OB and a Peach and has two 10 win seasons...

You say GT us a 7 win team with him...History says since 1952.. GT has been a 7 win team... So if the TO is the problem please explain what was the problem between 1953 to 2007 since it was not the TO!

Paul Johnson is not the problem!
 

GTFLETCH

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,567
First...I have not read the entire thread...mea culpa in advance.

I said this is the post game thread just a few minutes ago....but I too have wearied of our offense like the OP. For our offense to work it seems we need 5 or 6 guys to execute well on a play...the QB, B Back, A Back, WR receiver (blocking) and at least a couple of linemen blocking. To execute a short passing attack like Clemson showed last night, you need 2 guys executing at a high level..the QB and WR. On half of their passes, their O line could have been statues...it was out of Watson's hands so fact no one could get a rush on him. That appeals to me, as it appears that GT will never be willing to do what it takes to have lines comparable to the better teams we play.

Moreover, if our running game is stuffed, the process of watching our QB drop back under a ferocious pass rush is downright discouraging. The shotgun puts any passing QB in a MUCH better place for passing...but we won't do that. Ever.

I am over it. Our offensive scheme was suppose dot help us negate physical disadvantages that we will always face against the teams we play. I think these little 5 year throws from the shotgun have a much better chance of working.

Certainly don't think we would have won this game under any circumstances, but after watching for all the years under CPJ, I have simply concluded that this scheme does not appear to offer us any advantages over other offensive schemes, and in fact seems outdated and more complicated than some of the passing schemes out there. Bring on the Run n Shoot!

Bottom line tough is simple.....you can talk all you want about concepts...we simply have been shut down offensively in the last two years in ways that have been embarrassing and frustrating in the extreme. Notre Dame, Georgia, Miami, Clemson (twice now) and even Duke all shut us down on offense. It is of course never fun to watch a lousy offense (I remember Gailey's offenses), but this one just isn't working anymore. That it might work well enough to beat Duke and Ga Southern and Virginina and maybe even Pitt to get us to 7-5 this win is no great encouragement to me, as I suspect it will be shat down pretty badly in the other games by Miami, Georgia, VPI&SU and maybe even UNC.

I'm over it.

Last night I only saw 3 or 4 guys actually "out physical" us or beat or blocks. Everything else was a complete miss by us, or someone we left completely unblocked.

I think the problem is blocking the OLB. We end up with 3 guys in our backfield (DE / OLB / CB) and we have a numbers mismatch. We are having trouble with the assignments because of this.. Need to fix it..
 

GlennW

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,189
Everytime we look bad it's the "stars". We have good football players that aren't performing consistently. Winnning takes a whole lot more than just great athletes. Coaching, team cohesiveness,leaders and not taking any shortcuts with the hard work and grind it takes to win. Every once in awhile it happens here like in 2014. For those who thought JT was solely responsible for that season is living the reality of it now. It takes 90 guys to put together a winning season..... it appears now we have only a handful. jmho.

The point is we'll never be able to recruit at the same level so we have to find some other way to make us competitive against them, and in the past it has been with Paul Johnson being a better Coach on game-day, our unique style of offense, and the fact that we have to have smarter, harder working, players than other teams; guys who are more willing to work like a group than a bunch of individuals.
 

AlabamaBuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,050
Location
Hartselle, AL (originally Rome, GA)
Poor recruiting has caught up with us. Dabo has Clem's Son recruiting as well as they have ever done. I believe our recruiting, which has never been great, has taken about a 15% reduction in quality vs. our historical. That is too much, especially when we already have issues in this area already. My opinion.
 

alentrekin

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
876
Location
California
Last night I only saw 3 or 4 guys actually "out physical" us or beat or blocks. Everything else was a complete miss by us, or someone we left completely unblocked.

I think the problem is blocking the OLB. We end up with 3 guys in our backfield (DE / OLB / CB) and we have a numbers mismatch. We are having trouble with the assignments because of this.. Need to fix it..

Complete misses are often being "out speeded", and the error rate compounds when the LOS bends back.

I am sympathetic to arguments that we struggle in recruiting because of the offense. Though it does seem to open arbitrage opportunities with good athletes who are between positions (JT, Qua, JJ Green, Dedrick), it is hell on the players that are most important to it.
 
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