Our Offense

[dressedcheeseside]

All your points are on target. Top high school qb's and receivers are not interested in playing under johnson and his offense. Pure & simple!

And they were lining up falling over themselves before Johnson.

 

[jeffgt14]

And they were lining up falling over themselves before Johnson.

I’d venture to say Gailey’s biggest downfall was never having a good QB.

 

[Techster]

I’d venture to say Gailey’s biggest downfall was never having a good QB.

Man, talk about a day late and a dollar short.

Gailey hit the mini jackpot of QBs his last 2 classes (Threat, Nesbitt, Renfree) and was also stacking some REALLY nice pieces at the skill positions (Dwyer, Demaryius Thomas, Roddy Jones, TE Collin Peek who x-ferred to 'Bama). Of course, you need to win a game or 2 against UGA if you want to stick around to coach them.

 

[jeffgt14]

Man, talk about a day late and a dollar short.

Gailey hit the mini jackpot of QBs his last 2 classes (Threat, Nesbitt, Renfree) and was also stacking some REALLY nice pieces at the skill positions (Dwyer, Demaryius Thomas, Roddy Jones, TE Collin Peek who x-ferred to 'Bama). Of course, you need to win a game or 2 against UGA if you want to stick around to coach them.

Yep. Although Threat was absolutely hated at Michigan I’m not sure Nesbitt could’ve ran Gailey’s offense. That’s still a nice selection of talent to choose from. Nesbitt would’ve at least added a good change of pace/wildcat dynamic to the offense.

 

[AE 87]

Who started the whole "The only way GT can compete with other schools is by using the triple option" narrative?

That's simply false. As I recall, one of the best offenses we've ever had that won us a National Championship wasn't based around the "triple option". That same offense took that coaching staff to the Super Bowl. We saw exciting QB play in that offense that eventually gave us the runner up in the Heisman (Joe Hamilton). For all crap we give Gailey, his "pro style" offense won him at least 7 games a year and took us to the ACC Championship. Outside of 2009 and 2014, 7 games a year is about what we're getting with CPJ.

Good coaches will get the most out of their talent and win games with whatever system they know best. Ross (well, Friedgen), Gailey, and CPJ knew what they wanted to do, and were/are all good coaches (though some may have issue saying that about Gailey). CPJ's offense isn't the sole reason why we're winning, it's because CPJ is just a good coach. It just so happens he's the foremost expert at what he does on offense.

You don't think if Tom Herman or a coach with a system like Art Briles, Chip Kelly, or Urban Meyer would win here, then you've been drinking too much Kool-aid. There's no doubt they probably wouldn't be pulling in 4/5 star talent like they have at their current schools, but they would recruit well enough at GT with their system to take us to bowl games consistently and win an ACC Championship once every 4-5 years. Their systems would actually attract better talent on the offensive side of the ball. QBs want to throw the ball, and skill players want to maximize their skillset catching passes and running the ball in a "NFL friendly" system. Unfortunately, that's just how recruits are these days.

The state of GA has become a hot bed for high level QBs lately, and is consistently putting out high level skill players. We get shut out of the top tier QBs during recruiting, and getting top tier skill players is few and far between. That's not a diss on the guys we're signing, it's just part and parcel of what comes with running this system. It sucks, but it's the truth when 4 and 5 star QBs would rather switch positions on the college level (Malcolm Parrish, and Nick Marshall) than play QB for us. Others (Deshaun Watson, Joshua Dobbs) won't even consider us because of our system.

I'm in no way making this about recruiting. It's just that if you say the "triple option" is the great equalizer for GT, you have to understand the sacrifice in other areas...specifically, personnel. It's not like CPJ's offense has been bad, it's actually been good to historically VERY good. Better players probably give you 2014 performances consistently. Get a more attractive system for recruits with a good coach, and GT would see similar results. I like CPJ's offense, but to say only the "triple option" offense would give GT a chance to compete ignores history and what's going on in college football today.

Yes and no, imo.

Maybe there are people who really believe that GT can only compete with the triple option. I think the narrative I see more frequently is that it is a way we can compete more easily than were we to try and run the same thing as everyone else. So, yes, I agree that the former idea is wrong, but I think the latter idea shouldn't be dismissed so easily. I mean, I think that most agree that the scheduling suggests teams are asking for a bye or an FCS team before they play us. That suggests an implicit benefit of our offense exists.

Moreover, as I've said before, the ppd vs pwr5 data over the last 8 years has us with #6 most efficient offense. In other words, you're not going to find many coaches getting better results on O than we have.

The second point which I think needs to be made again is that the outcome of a game is dependent on more than just the offense. I just disagree with the whole logic of suggesting Gailey's offense won him as many games on average as CPJ's. I think saying Tenuta's D won as many games on average as CPJ's O might be more accurate.

Third, the data I recall is that we've been recruiting better over all under CPJ than under CCG, but I'm not going to look it up. I think the suggestion that we are recruiting worse, or that we're sacrificing in the area of personnel, seems like it's based on anecdotal assumptions which may, or may not, be right, but there's no way to verify.

 

[forensicbuzz]

There was no problem with Gailey's offense. The problem was the playcaller. He was way too conservative for college football. The offense was fine, the vanilla playcalling wasn't. That's why I don't care too much for pro football. Most of the offenses are the same and they play to not lose rather than playing to win.

 

[RedPete]

There was no problem with Gailey's offense. The problem was the playcaller. He was way too conservative for college football. The offense was fine, the vanilla playcalling wasn't...

Not to mention the legendarily poor quarterback who shall not be named.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[forensicbuzz]

Not to mention the legendarily poor quarterback who shall not be named.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure which one you're referring to, but better playcalling would have made all the QB's under Gailey better.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

There was no problem with Gailey's offense. The problem was the playcaller. He was way too conservative for college football. The offense was fine, the vanilla playcalling wasn't. That's why I don't care too much for pro football. Most of the offenses are the same and they play to not lose rather than playing to win.

This is actually Alabama's approach a lot of years. They would run very conservative plays but had the horses to overpower defenses.

 

[FightWinDrink]

Yeah, it was a 9 win season, iirc.

I know Maryland had money problems, so maybe that pinched his recruiting efforts.

From what I understand from Maryland alum family members they wanted to fire him the year before for the 2-10 season but couldn't afford it. They told him he could fight for his job the next year and he gave it a valiant effort only to be fired anyway. They say the word is that the Under Armour guy had a big say in it wanting his own guy (who ended up being the disaster of Edsall) plus a change in AD. The biggest complaint about his recruiting was that he could never keep any of the local Maryland/DC/Northern VA talent home. DeMatha Catholic which is like a powerhouse school in the area hadn't sent a player to Maryland in like 12 years until this year under the new coach Durkin. Friedgen struggled to beat out Paterno and Beamer for the locals

 

[jeffgt14]

There was no problem with Gailey's offense. The problem was the playcaller. He was way too conservative for college football. The offense was fine, the vanilla playcalling wasn't. That's why I don't care too much for pro football. Most of the offenses are the same and they play to not lose rather than playing to win.

Have you seen Aaron Rodgers play? He chucks balls downfield all day long.

 

[Sideways]

Um...this is kinda awkward...but...that's pretty much the basis of our passing game...

That is true. My point was that if we tried to throw the ball with the hurry up offense we would regret it because as Boomer has stated our roster is not made for that. I know we have the route trees from Coach Johnson's Hawaii days and all that but we have not had the quarterback to make that system work. Perhaps with Lucas Johnson I can see a gradual trend to a more wide open run and shoot type hybrid with what we do now but that is in the future.

 

[Sideways]

Who started the whole "The only way GT can compete with other schools is by using the triple option" narrative?

That's simply false. As I recall, one of the best offenses we've ever had that won us a National Championship wasn't based around the "triple option". That same offense took that coaching staff to the Super Bowl. We saw exciting QB play in that offense that eventually gave us the runner up in the Heisman (Joe Hamilton). For all crap we give Gailey, his "pro style" offense won him at least 7 games a year and took us to the ACC Championship. Outside of 2009 and 2014, 7 games a year is about what we're getting with CPJ.

Good coaches will get the most out of their talent and win games with whatever system they know best. Ross (well, Friedgen), Gailey, and CPJ knew what they wanted to do, and were/are all good coaches (though some may have issue saying that about Gailey). CPJ's offense isn't the sole reason why we're winning, it's because CPJ is just a good coach. It just so happens he's the foremost expert at what he does on offense.

You don't think if Tom Herman or a coach with a system like Art Briles, Chip Kelly, or Urban Meyer would win here, then you've been drinking too much Kool-aid. There's no doubt they probably wouldn't be pulling in 4/5 star talent like they have at their current schools, but they would recruit well enough at GT with their system to take us to bowl games consistently and win an ACC Championship once every 4-5 years. Their systems would actually attract better talent on the offensive side of the ball. QBs want to throw the ball, and skill players want to maximize their skillset catching passes and running the ball in a "NFL friendly" system. Unfortunately, that's just how recruits are these days.

The state of GA has become a hot bed for high level QBs lately, and is consistently putting out high level skill players. We get shut out of the top tier QBs during recruiting, and getting top tier skill players is few and far between. That's not a diss on the guys we're signing, it's just part and parcel of what comes with running this system. It sucks, but it's the truth when 4 and 5 star QBs would rather switch positions on the college level (Malcolm Parrish, and Nick Marshall) than play QB for us. Others (Deshaun Watson, Joshua Dobbs) won't even consider us because of our system.

I'm in no way making this about recruiting. It's just that if you say the "triple option" is the great equalizer for GT, you have to understand the sacrifice in other areas...specifically, personnel. It's not like CPJ's offense has been bad, it's actually been good to historically VERY good. Better players probably give you 2014 performances consistently. Get a more attractive system for recruits with a good coach, and GT would see similar results. I like CPJ's offense, but to say only the "triple option" offense would give GT a chance to compete ignores history and what's going on in college football today.

Your arguments are very good. It should be noted that in O'Leary's time, the administration was much more football friendly than the one now. Your points about recruiting are spot on. We are in a recruiting hotbed but struggle to get above about 45 or so in the rankings. Until something is done about that changing offenses is so much window dressing. Our problems are not so much about the offense but getting difference makers on defense.

 

[Sideways]

I always wonder why Fridge wasn't more successful at Maryland. He did great his first 3 years and then nothing. Perhaps he couldn't recruit?

Someone better informed can address this. My understanding is that he could not get along with the AD at the time Debbie Yow who has pretty much been a disaster everywhere she has been (like NC State right now) but also the aforementioned recruiting problems with Penn State and Virginia Tech poaching Maryland's best recruits. I would have been willing to bet he was going to create a near powerhouse much like Bobby Ross did at Maryland but it just didn't happen and they have struggled ever since.

 

[TheGridironGeek]

They've played good ND teams the last five years and not been "stopped cold". You have no idea whether Clemson would have stopped them or not. Would Clemson have beat them? Probably, but there's no way of knowing if Clemson would have stopped them. For one thing, as hard as it is to admit, Navy has been CONSISTENTLY running their (Johnson's) offense better than we have last year and so far this year.

This is totally naive and just an "eye test" observation. I have no real complaint about CPJ's offense. He's the master of an entire school of offensive football and a gem of the game. CPJ's losses at Tech have been a combination of lackluster defense, size/speed/talent disadvantage, mental errors etc. Nothing to do w/ x's and o's.

But Navy looks more fluid to me on offense. When I think of the GT offense, I visualize blockers lurching around and hesitating at times. Even the QB's (until JT came along) seemed to enjoy planting a foot in the wrong direction & taking their time about it before finally running toward the hole.

CKN's version at Navy is a ballet. Perfectly orchestrated gears in motion, no wasted movement from anyone including the ball carrier.

Maybe it's a product of GT having NFL-caliber talent at some positions & average talent at others. Some GT linemen are slow, giant maulers while others are smaller and quicker. Navy literally _can't_ have enormous road-grader linemen because it's against regulations for guys to be too big in training. And Navy's skill players are all clones of the same average-speed, average-or-smaller-size, versatile, disciplined role-player. So maybe the Midshipmen are so interchangeable, so uniform, and such bright-eyed overachieving kids that it's easier to get all 11 guys to execute in unison.

Or I'm crazy. After all, the 2014 Tech offense was one of the best 3 or 4 college offenses I have ever seen. But Navy does seem to execute the Flex with more fluidity and grace on a consistent basis. BTW they're currently 3-0 with a backup QB having played almost the entire time.

 

[Boomergump]

The biggest difference I notice when watching NAVY is how their QB gets going downhill faster. When Jordan comes in for us, things start to look more NAVY-like IMHO. JT takes advantage of his abilities by stringing plays out a little more, trying to get into space himself. That gives the illusion that things have slowed down, when he is really faster than NAVY QBs have been. The option decisions may happen slightly slower, but JT is moving faster. CLemson did a good job of forcing the decisions to be made faster than we are comfortable.

 

[croberts]

Well I wouldn't be making sense if that is what I said. But it isn't. I'd try reading what's actually said rather than trying to twist it into something you can just dismiss without actually facing the issue.

And you aren't making since to declare that Days was the better back. He didn't take control of any position for 4.5 years on the flats. Just fiction in your mind to make that statement. What isn't fiction is that 2014 set historical records on offense, while Gailey (a good man) had historically bad offenses.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Please let's keep this thread from comparing offensive or program success of CCG and CPJ. I defended CCG until the end, as a good man doing the best he could. However, ANYONE who now claims GT football was more successful overall under CCG vs. CPJ either wasn't following GT then or has an anti-CPJ agenda.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

However, ANYONE who now claims GT football was more successful overall under CCG vs. CPJ either wasn't following GT then or has an anti-CPJ agenda.

I said it in my post 3 or 4 pages back. This thread is troll manna.

 

[stech81]

The biggest difference I notice when watching NAVY is how their QB gets going downhill faster. When Jordan comes in for us, things start to look more NAVY-like IMHO. JT takes advantage of his abilities by stringing plays out a little more, trying to get into space himself. That gives the illusion that things have slowed down, when he is really faster than NAVY QBs have been. The option decisions may happen slightly slower, but JT is moving faster. CLemson did a good job of forcing the decisions to be made faster than we are comfortable.

Agree JT is a super Athletic with great speed. And MJ likes to turn it up field . Both can run this offense.