Option Football

[bobongo]

It’s not hard at all. Chadwell scheme doesn’t prepare guys for next level particularly at certain positions. Same way future engineers come to Tech to be developed so they can perform amongst the top best in their field and athletes want the same

Coastal Carolina’s Likely, Gunter selected in NFL Draft on Saturday

Likely picked by Ravens, Gunter by Bengals

www.live5news.com

"With Gunter and his teammate, Isaiah Likely (fourth round – 139th pick) both being selected in this year’s draft, the duo mark just the second time in Coastal football’s 19-year history that the Chanticleers have had two players taken in the same NFL Draft"

Seven Chants Sign Free Agent Deals - Coastal Carolina University Athletics

CONWAY, S.C. – Coastal Carolina football had seven Chanticleers in C.J. Brewer, Kameron Brown, Derick Bush, Jaivon Heiligh, Shermari Jones, Silas Kelly, and Alex

goccusports.com

Signing NFL contracts were two WR's, and one each TE, DE, DT, CB, RB, LB, and S - two draftees and 7 UDFAs.

 

[Dustman]

LB is definitely a big concern going into next year, particularly with Eley and Thomas being as good as they have been. Tatum should step up and do fine, but we have almost no experience beyond that. There was mention of Franks entering the portal a while back, did that actually happen or was it just a rumor? Of course, Demetrius Knight is in the portal, though could theoretically return under the new staff. Either way I think the portal will need to bring us a LB or 2.

I heard Franks is no longer with the team. Meiguez isn’t on the depth chart, though he plays on ST. It’s definitely a new era with the portal though. Sorry about the thread derail.

 

[Ibeeballin]

We recruited well enough on offense under CPJ to regularly be among the top offenses in the country. And that's with the ostensibly worst possible offense for recruiting players.
Is the idea that a shotgun option offense going to be *worse* for recruiting than the flexbone was? Or is the idea that Chadwell couldn't put up great offensive performances with the likes of Justin Thomas, Deandre Smelter, Stephen Hill, Dedrick Mills, etc? It's hard to understand what y'all are saying about negative recruiting and its effect on the actual product.

What’s your demarcation for being one of the top offenses?

 

[Ibeeballin]

Coastal Carolina’s Likely, Gunter selected in NFL Draft on Saturday

Likely picked by Ravens, Gunter by Bengals

www.live5news.com

"With Gunter and his teammate, Isaiah Likely (fourth round – 139th pick) both being selected in this year’s draft, the duo mark just the second time in Coastal football’s 19-year history that the Chanticleers have had two players taken in the same NFL Draft"

Seven Chants Sign Free Agent Deals - Coastal Carolina University Athletics

CONWAY, S.C. – Coastal Carolina football had seven Chanticleers in C.J. Brewer, Kameron Brown, Derick Bush, Jaivon Heiligh, Shermari Jones, Silas Kelly, and Alex

goccusports.com

Lol. Im well aware of Likely. Now of the 6 seasons of Chadwell offense being at Coastal, you can only pull 1 offensive player? Sound like he’s the exception and not the rule

 

[kittysniper101]

It’s not hard at all. Chadwell scheme doesn’t prepare guys for next level particularly at certain positions. Same way future engineers come to Tech to be developed so they can perform amongst the top best in their field and athletes want the same

You see the same criticisms brought against Baylor when they were running Briles' offense or Auburn when they had Gus Malzahn. As others have alluded to, you can clearly have a productive offense with the type of players you still get even assuming there's an impact from the negative recruiting. Beyond that, I think the clear distinction with these offenses is that it isn't going to impact your defensive recruiting in the same way as the CPJ flexbone did. No complaints about going against 0 passes in practice, or getting cut blocked constantly.

TL;DR there's probably degrees of negative recruiting and I'm happy to make that tradeoff for an offense that is slightly outside the NCAA norm but not full on flexbone.

 

[bobongo]

Lol. Im well aware of Likely. Now of the 6 seasons of Chadwell offense being at Coastal, you can only pull 1 offensive player? Sound like he’s the exception and not the rule

Zzzzzz. Yes, one offensive draftee and one defensive. 3 offensive and 6 defensive players total signed with the NFL last year. I just annihilated your argument. "LOL"

 

[85Escape]

Lol. Im well aware of Likely. Now of the 6 seasons of Chadwell offense being at Coastal, you can only pull 1 offensive player? Sound like he’s the exception and not the rule

And since 2016 GT has had exactly 2 offensive players drafted into the NFL.

2016	2	32	63	Adam Gotsis	Denver Broncos	DT
	6	3	178	D. J. White	Kansas City Chiefs	DB
2017	7	15	233	Harrison Butker	Carolina Panthers	K
2020	6	27	206	Tyler Davis	Jacksonville Jaguars	TE
2021	6	25	209	Jalen Camp	Jacksonville Jaguars	WR
	7	26	254	Pressley Harvin III	Pittsburgh Steelers	P
2022	7	7	228	Tariq Carpenter	Green Bay Packers	LB

How many do we expect to be drafted from our current roster that was recruited by TFFG?

 

[kittysniper101]

Lol. Im well aware of Likely. Now of the 6 seasons of Chadwell offense being at Coastal, you can only pull 1 offensive player? Sound like he’s the exception and not the rule

How many draftees should a sunbelt team be putting in? Over that same timespan app state has put 1 RB and 1 OG on offense.
Troy 1 OT
ULM 1 WR
I'm getting bored, but what are the standards here?

 

[bobongo]

How many draftees should a sunbelt team be putting in? Over that same timespan app state has put 1 RB and 1 OG on offense.
Troy 1 OT
ULM 1 WR
I'm getting bored, but what are the standards here?

Oh, you wouldn't believe how high that bar is.

 

[Ibeeballin]

How many draftees should a sunbelt team be putting in? Over that same timespan app state has put 1 RB and 1 OG on offense.
Troy 1 OT
ULM 1 WR
I'm getting bored, but what are the standards here?

I mean you guys are telling this the greatest show on turf. I thought they would have 5 or 6 offensive players like Western Kentucky & Western Michigan

 

[Ibeeballin]

Zzzzzz. Yes, one offensive draftee and one defensive. 3 offensive and 6 defensive players total signed with the NFL last year. I just annihilated your argument. "LOL"

Not even close, but thanks for playing. Not sure why you’re listing defensive players

 

[kittysniper101]

I mean you guys are telling this the greatest show on turf. I thought they would have 5 or 6 offensive players like Western Kentucky & Western Michigan

I'd be decently happy with WKU's head coach. I think Coastal's record is a bit more impressive vs their peers and I like Chadwell more, but since you threw it out there

 

[kittysniper101]

Not even close, but thanks for playing. Not sure why you’re listing defensive players

Well to be fair the argument was originally recruiting, which should be the whole team.
If it's just offensive players you're missing on but clearly still have a potent offense without them, who really cares? The point isn't to win the NFL draft, it's to win college football games. I get to some extent they're related but there's just a ton of shifting targets going on here.

 

[CEB]

You’re absolutely right. Film doesn’t lie

thanks for posting.... so honest questions / observations:

The things I see in this video debunk a lot of what I perceived to be the negative recruiting aspects and the heartburn of several fans with regard to CPJ offense:

- Not a cut block in sight. I am sure they use them (as does everyone to some extent), but they're not cutting. That takes away the silly notion that its all you will see as a defensive player, right?
- We always complained about the lack of short passing game in CPJ offense. There weren't quick slants and "bubble" screens because jet sweeps and option pitches were preferred and largely more effective for what we were doing. I see a LOT of short passing and RPO type of approach here.
- BB hand in the dirt; nope. Frankly, I suspect this was more a preference of the offense than a necessity, but regardless, its absent from Chadwell / Coastal approach.
- Lack of passing and true wide receivers in CPJ option - pretty obvious distinction here. They line up a lot with 3 and 4 wide; something CPJ rarely did. Most plays came from balanced, base formation and if formation changed, it was really more pre-snap window dressing (the notable exception was some of the Vad Lee days we watched earlier).

Honestly, I see a lot of what Chadwell / Coastal does as very similar to what a lot of people are doing in their RPO offenses, and the "easy" digs at what CPJ was doing just aren't there.

People are always going to have a criticism, but I think assigning the CPJ criticisms to what Chadwell / Coastal is doing is misguided and will quickly be disproven. As always, naysayer will find something else to complain about, but we can only concern ourselves so much...

 

[lv20gt]

People are concerned with the wrong thing when it comes to Chadwell.

There are concerns that he can recruit at this level since he hasn't had any experience at the P5 level and in general I think his staff is light on that overall. If he was hired, I would expect the staff to have a bit more veteran recruiting brought in, but he's going to have that question mark anyways.

However, his offense passes significantly more, and the blocking scheme isn't as noticeably different so the effectiveness of the negative recruiting wont be as much as with Johnson's. Will it be there? Sure. Will it have some effect? Sure. Will it be nearly as bad as it was with Johnson? Likely not. And IMO Chadwell is also likely to be able to navigate that issue better than Johnson although that is more a guess based on personality than anything.

The bigger issues to be concerned with are his defense, his ability to put together a staff that is the level we need, and a question surrounding his offense is exactly how well will it translate. Even if it translates well, will it be good if we can also routinely hold teams under 24 good, or will it be good that it can routinely win us shoot outs good. If it is the latter then it takes pressure of some of the other issues. However, that would likely mean improved recruiting offensively anyways as I don't think scheme alone will get there. IMO it will more likely be the former which would put more importance on picking his staff to also bring the defense up.

 

[bobongo]

thanks for posting.... so honest questions / observations:

The things I see in this video debunk a lot of what I perceived to be the negative recruiting aspects and the heartburn of several fans with regard to CPJ offense:

- Not a cut block in sight. I am sure they use them (as does everyone to some extent), but they're not cutting. That takes away the silly notion that its all you will see as a defensive player, right?
- We always complained about the lack of short passing game in CPJ offense. There weren't quick slants and "bubble" screens because jet sweeps and option pitches were preferred and largely more effective for what we were doing. I see a LOT of short passing and RPO type of approach here.
- BB hand in the dirt; nope. Frankly, I suspect this was more a preference of the offense than a necessity, but regardless, its absent from Chadwell / Coastal approach.
- Lack of passing and true wide receivers in CPJ option - pretty obvious distinction here. They line up a lot with 3 and 4 wide; something CPJ rarely did. Most plays came from balanced, base formation and if formation changed, it was really more pre-snap window dressing (the notable exception was some of the Vad Lee days we watched earlier).

Honestly, I see a lot of what Chadwell / Coastal does as very similar to what a lot of people are doing in their RPO offenses, and the "easy" digs at what CPJ was doing just aren't there.

People are always going to have a criticism, but I think assigning the CPJ criticisms to what Chadwell / Coastal is doing is misguided and will quickly be disproven. As always, naysayer will find something else to complain about, but we can only concern ourselves so much...

Good post. The Chadwell offense is just very different from the CPJ offense in that while it incorporates the best parts of it, it adds a lot and is far more varied. And it works wonderfully.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Well to be fair the argument was originally recruiting, which should be the whole team.
If it's just offensive players you're missing on but clearly still have a potent offense without them, who really cares? The point isn't to win the NFL draft, it's to win college football games. I get to some extent they're related but there's just a ton of shifting targets going on here.

The title of the thread is “Option football” and we discussion a particular offense

 

[CEB]

Good post. The Chadwell offense is just very different from the CPJ offense in that while it incorporates the best parts of it, it adds a lot and is far more varied. And it works wonderfully.

And I left out the biggest most obvious knock of all... QB is not under center.

To me Coastal looks like a lot of the spread / RPO offenses being run by a lot of teams these days. I know it’s option based, but to me the option actually looks to serve as constraint plays... and they run them well. A lot of other teams use an option look in a similar way (less often) and it turns out more of a “trick play”....it works if the D screws up. It’s easy to see a team that just dropped it in the playbook without working on it... timing is off, spacing is off, pitch too soon, etc

 

[Techster]

When got influencers and respected guys say this, you are already coming with one arm tied behind your back

Sam Hartman is going to test that theory.

 

[ibeattetris]

The option *definitely* doesn't prepare or develop or prepare a QB for the NFL







If any recruit can be negatively recruited against in the way people in this thread are saying, I seriously doubt their analytical abilities will merit matriculation at GT. If a recruit has doubts about the option, and you show them clips of Lamar Jackson currently in the NFL, I don't really see how they can decide option will negatively affect them.