Option Football

[iceeater1969]

Johnson pointed out this was an evolution when clemson was running it.

During our last 2 years of option , the qb was a running back. His last 9 completions - 5 to gt and 4 to other guys.

Johnson went down running the damn ball.

To bad we weren't willing to evolve

 

[LongforDodd]

During our last 2 years of option , the qb was a running back. His last 9 completions - 5 to gt and 4 to other guys.

Johnson went down running the damn ball.

To bad we weren't willing to evolve

Are you saying PJ's O should have evolved into something different or we should have evolved into something different post-PJ?

 

[slugboy]

During our last 2 years of option , the qb was a running back. His last 9 completions - 5 to gt and 4 to other guys.

Johnson went down running the damn ball.

To bad we weren't willing to evolve

When he had a QB that threw better, he threw more. He adapted his offense for the players he had.

 

[VRTechFan]

There's a great video with Coach Cook and Gaudin that talked about it.

I miss the ball control death marches that we had with the spread option.

 

[VRTechFan]

During our last 2 years of option , the qb was a running back. His last 9 completions - 5 to gt and 4 to other guys.

Johnson went down running the damn ball.

To bad we weren't willing to evolve

He didn't have a QB that could throw unfortunately. The kid that had the atv accident was supposedly the next JT5, but that never happened. Taquon was the only option that we had. I believed Oliver would have been great QB for us if PJ was still coaching.

 

[GTjunkie]

wishbone does NOT equal option. (nor does flexbone).

Too many people on this site immediately think about CPJ's triple option offense when anyone mentions option, but there are w WIDE variety of option offenses and as this thread shows, the NFL uses option offense as well.

Yep. CPJ's biggest crime was the QB under center.

 

[stylee]

Marshall just didn't have much arm strength and was extremely inconsistent with accuracy. Throwing it *more* with Taquon wasn't the move lol.

TM worked his butt off, took a bunch of big hits, and stepped up when we ran out of options based on some inopportune injuries and defections. I'm not downplaying what he did for us.

Many people legitimately think moving the QB back 5 yards from the center is automatically an "evolution." Not sure if there's much to discuss with those sorts of folks. There are great option teams from under center, shotgun, and pistol. What makes one better than another? It's execution, planning, in-game adjustments, etc., not some sort of magic that automatically applies when you alter the QB's position relative to the center. Would we have been better in 2014 on offense if JT had taken his snaps out of the shotgun? Why?

You gain certain stuff by changing the QB's position, you lose other stuff. Pretending there's one setup that's the "right side of history" and "evolution" and "progress" is silly.

 

[slugboy]

Well it's interesting data, but there are always exceptions to the rule. There are always going to be coaches that underperform and overperform the talent level. In the long run, talent wins out.

Heupel is doing great; can he recruit well enough to stay relevant over the next 5 years? We'll see.

A simple correlation study between annual recruiting rankings and, say, FEI 3 years later would show the real story. I think we both know the answer.

The data for Tennessee is in the table I shared. It's also pretty clear in the chart--you'd just need to shift the recruiting line by 3 places.
It's also easy to add a 4-year running average. Or, we could go and get that "Talent Composite Index".

I think what you're saying in the bolded part is "yeah, the smart move is to get that coaching staff that can recruit--that's the main thing". Kirby Smart recruits better than Mark Richt did, but Smart recruits a lot better at UGA than he would at Kentucky or here. I don't think Kirby Smart or Jimbo Fisher would pull in many top 15 classes here--maybe not any. You can correlate coaching changes with recruiting rankings, but the school seems to be a bigger factor than the coach. UGA has only been outside of the top 10 in recruiting 3 times in the last 22 years--for any coach.

Recruiting is better under Smart, but UGA has pumped a lot more money into recruiting under Smart than they did under Richt. That's an arms race we can't compete in.

Do I think Deion could bring in better classes at Tech than Jimbo Fisher? Probably. Do I think he'll bring in top 10 classes here? Let's say I need to be convinced and would be really impressed by classes in the 15-20 range.

Are classes in the 15-20 range enough to beat Clemson? Yeah, with a schematic advantage, if we had one. Or occasionally, if we didn't have a schematic advantage.

Is Recruiting Ranking correlated with your AP rank? Yeah. Is recruiting ranking also correlated with other contributing factors, like the amount of revenue your AA brings in? Yeah. Are wins correlated with other factors, like how much money the school has? Yeah. Does that mean that we overrate how much recruiting ratings are tied to on the field performance? Yeah. Do we wildly overrate how much a coach's recruiting skills result in wins? Yeah.

Do I mean that coaches should ignore recruiting? No--it's like shaving. If you don't do a good job of it every day you look like a bum.

 

[CEB]

Yep. CPJ's biggest crime was the QB under center.

I’m not sure it hurt CPJ nearly as much as it hurt the psyche of many fans...

 

[Eli]

Marshall just didn't have much arm strength and was extremely inconsistent with accuracy. Throwing it *more* with Taquon wasn't the move lol.

TM worked his butt off, took a bunch of big hits, and stepped up when we ran out of options based on some inopportune injuries and defections. I'm not downplaying what he did for us.

Many people legitimately think moving the QB back 5 yards from the center is automatically an "evolution." Not sure if there's much to discuss with those sorts of folks. There are great option teams from under center, shotgun, and pistol. What makes one better than another? It's execution, planning, in-game adjustments, etc., not some sort of magic that automatically applies when you alter the QB's position relative to the center. Would we have been better in 2014 on offense if JT had taken his snaps out of the shotgun? Why?

You gain certain stuff by changing the QB's position, you lose other stuff. Pretending there's one setup that's the "right side of history" and "evolution" and "progress" is silly.

Winner

 

[CEB]

Well it's interesting data, but there are always exceptions to the rule. There are always going to be coaches that underperform and overperform the talent level. In the long run, talent wins out.

Heupel is doing great; can he recruit well enough to stay relevant over the next 5 years? We'll see.

A simple correlation study between annual recruiting rankings and, say, FEI 3 years later would show the real story. I think we both know the answer.

I’m not so sure it’s really the exception though... Tennessee was the example used but you could probably use UGA from the mid-80s up to Kirby. Alabama, pre-Saban, Texas, Michigan,etc.
those come to mind because they are perennial top 5-10 recruiting and didn’t perform there for a long time. There are probably even more compelling cases in the 10-20 recruiting range that struggle to finish ranked.

I really feel success breeds recruiting more so than recruiting breeds success.

 

[7979]

I was in Columbia Saturday with South Carolina friends for USC vs Mizzou.....went to bar after the game and watched Shane Beamer post-game interview...
Beamer said, "What Missouri did to us today reminds me of what GT used to do to my dad's VT teams... they controled the clock by running the ball over and over and over and over again..."
Running the football protects your defense....even if you go three and out... our first two drives in Tallahasee ran less than 2 mins off clock...
And running the option with QB under center, also minimizes the "inadequacies" of your OL...run blocking is much, much easier than pass protection.
The option also allows you to recruit 6'2" 285 lb OL... strong boys who stay low and attack DL and LBs... 3yds-5 yds-3yds...first down... move chains
GT will never recruit enough elite OL-men (much less DL-men) to play Alabama football...
When you are a 6'5" 315 lb 14 yr old, you KNOW you are going to play SEC level...so these kids quit taking math in 10th grade...they will never qualify for GT academically...and you don't just need 2 or 3 of these guys...you need 5 or 6.
Full disclosure...I loved Paul's offense. It gave GT an identity that was recognizable to every CFB fan... " Oh yea...you are the team that runs that option..."
Now we are just f***ing Vanderbilt....

 

[dressedcheeseside]

During our last 2 years of option , the qb was a running back. His last 9 completions - 5 to gt and 4 to other guys.

Johnson went down running the damn ball.

To bad we weren't willing to evolve

I don’t care what O you run, if you don’t block the dudes across the line, it’s gonna get blown up. His OL at the end was a far cry from where had been. A lot was due to them always being hurt.

 

[lv20gt]

If you look at my post earlier in the thread, Tennessee has on average pulled a top 15 class yearly since 2007. Their worst class was 33 back in 2008, and they've pulled as high as a #4 class in that time. They've consistently underperformed their recruiting ranking until hiring Heupel, who runs a modified high school scheme offense.

So, with every coach except one since 2007, Tennessee has significantly underperformed their recruiting ranking under multiple coaches, including one who won a national title. Heupel, with a scheme offense, is the only coach that has overperformed vs his recruiting ranking.

This year, with a scheme offense, is the first time Tennessee has beaten Alabama since 2006.

Scheme offense, as opposed to the non scheme offenses so many OC's employee where they tell their guys to randomly run around and hope for the best.

 

[GTpdm]

Scheme offense, as opposed to the non scheme offenses so many OC's employee where they tell their guys to randomly run around and hope for the best.

Kinda like what DCs did against us when we ran the option. They knew the trick to beat us was to play assignment football, when the rest of the time they told their guys to randomly run around and hope for the best.

 

[jgtengineer]

During our last 2 years of option , the qb was a running back. His last 9 completions - 5 to gt and 4 to other guys.

Johnson went down running the damn ball.

To bad we weren't willing to evolve

Had we not had a rash of QB injuries that wouldn't have been the case. Jordan could complete a pass but injured his foot, Ratliffe, well he never got to play a down. Johnson got injured twice. Jay Jones transfered because he didn't want to play school. (then failed greatly on a netflix show). James Graham was a freshman and did not give us as good of a shot as marshall did at that point with oliver backing him up.

We were close to a 9 win season in 2018 (coulda shoulda i know but still competive with a one dimensional offense.)

 

[iceeater1969]

Had we not had a rash of QB injuries that wouldn't have been the case. Jordan could complete a pass but injured his foot, Ratliffe, well he never got to play a down. Johnson got injured twice. Jay Jones transfered because he didn't want to play school. (then failed greatly on a netflix show). James Graham was a freshman and did not give us as good of a shot as marshall did at that point with oliver backing him up.

We were close to a 9 win season in 2018 (coulda shoulda i know but still competive with a one dimensional offense.)

At usf on the 2 kick-off returns for TD the sprint champion ran by #1 so fast it gave him whiplash.

 

[jgtengineer]

At usf on the 2 kick-off returns for TD the sprint champion ran by #1 so fast it gave him whiplash.

He fired the guy who was doing kickoff coverage form doing it after that game lol so there was that.

 

[takethepoints]

Had we not had a rash of QB injuries that wouldn't have been the case. Jordan could complete a pass but injured his foot, Ratliffe, well he never got to play a down. Johnson got injured twice. Jay Jones transfered because he didn't want to play school. (then failed greatly on a netflix show). James Graham was a freshman and did not give us as good of a shot as marshall did at that point with oliver backing him up.

We were close to a 9 win season in 2018 (coulda shoulda i know but still competive with a one dimensional offense.)

It's real simple. Mills doesn't get fired and Tech wins 9 - 10 games for the next 3 seasons. And Paul is still coach.

Does Tech have to kick two of the field goals against UT? Does Taquon not pitch the ball in the second overtime? Not with Mills on the field.

Does Tech have a hard time running the ball down field against da U in the muck? Not with Mills on the field.

Does Tech have a hard time in the second half against UVA in the muck? Not with Mills on the field.

That gets us to 9. Tech would have won one more with Mills on the field.

The record that year had nothing to do with Taquon. And with Mills on the field Tech would have won 9 - 10 in 2019 and in 2020. Imho, of course.

 

[JacketFan137]

It's real simple. Mills doesn't get fired and Tech wins 9 - 10 games for the next 3 seasons. And Paul is still coach.

Does Tech have to kick two of the field goals against UT? Does Taquon not pitch the ball in the second overtime? Not with Mills on the field.

Does Tech have a hard time running the ball down field against da U in the muck? Not with Mills on the field.

Does Tech have a hard time in the second half against UVA in the muck? Not with Mills on the field.

That gets us to 9. Tech would have won one more with Mills on the field.

The record that year had nothing to do with Taquon. And with Mills on the field Tech would have won 9 - 10 in 2019 and in 2020. Imho, of course.

had mills done anything major after leaving tech i might believe this but this is incredibly wishful thinking. one rb does not cover up the weaknesses those teams had