Official Ted Roof Discussion Thread

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,636
Location
Georgia
Player names changed but the issues were largely the same personnel wise.
-2009 starting front 4
Egbuniwe, Logan Walls, Ben Anderson, D Morgan (only one guy playing at elite level)
-2010
Cross, Walls, Jason Peters 3/4 scheme none playing at elite level (sneezy a true frosh)
-2011 ditto
(Sneezy at OLB getting there but not elite as a sophomore imo.
2012
-Dieke, TJ Barnes, Cross, (OLBs sneezy playing elite, Brandon Watts undervalued asset)
-2013
Sneezy at DE now playing elite, Cummings, Gotsis a sophomore, Dieke
-2014
Rod Rook, Green, Gotsis (junior starting to play at high level), Stargel
-2015
Rod Rook/keshun frosh year, Green, Gotsis, Stargel
Gotsis playing at elite level injured and out midway through season.
-2016
Freeman, Kallon/Cerge, Gamble, Rook/Simmons

Never more than one guy per season playing at a high level. So how do y'all rank this position group through the years? Any top 40s? 50s? 60s?

The battle is won in the trenches and we haven't had a line capable of winning the majority of matchups.

-2017
Freeman, Branch, Cerge/Adams, Simmons
We need more than one of these guys playing at a high level to get the kind of D this board expects / desires. How many can or will? This question will determine whether we have a special season or not. This year is our best chance in a very long time imo.

Exactly. This list reads like any other gt d other than 2007/08

2006. One of our best d

Adam oliver. Was ok. Got slammed alot on the boards. Was equal to cummings imo
Darell roberson. Was ok. Not as good as sneezy.
Joe anoai. At that time. Equal to or better than gotsis.
Richard or anyaibe. Neither was in his own yet both soph.

As a 4-3 vs 3-4 tough to compare to 2013. But its not like it was blow my socks off good.

That was your starting 4 all year.

2004. Another good salty d. Starting dl
Gerris Wilkinson and undersized lb convert
Eric henderson
Travis parker
Mansfield wrotto who should have been OL but due to flunkgate

That 2014 d u show had 4 nfl players on it.

Just like 2006. And 2004.

My point is valid. We have never had great dl at tech with more than one elite or really really good player at one time other than 2008 and 2007.

So how did these teams outproduce? From my eyes its not all on the dl. That 2004 unit was particularly thin on dl. Yet still managed to be a better unit than any roof has had.

And the backend had nfl players in 2004 like roof had in 2014.

Its far more than JUST the dl. Saying its the dl is an easy out. Its bigger than that to me. We should be better. Not top 20. I agree. But top 40 or 45 in efficiency and way better than we are in pressures, sacks etc as a unit
 

UgaBlows

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,412
What i do like about ted:

1 - i do agree and it does seem d recruiting has ticked up in the last 2-3 years. Is that ted or not who really knows. But i will agree at least partly for sure.

2 - he has shown a solid ability to adjust his calls many times after halftime to help. I think he needs to try to expedite that adjustment in between quarters but, his adjustments seem to most times be good.

3 - i have not seen a d that quit. Maybe unc once and clemson once. But that can happen.

4 - he is a good person. Good representative for gt.

5 - not sure anyone has noticed this. I have been tracking it for 3 years now. Late in games if we are behind and NEED stops to catch up he calls a totally different game. He gets way more aggressive. And it has worked a ton. I dont have the statistics a hand it would be a huge effort to do this. But if we are down a score or even two but in striking distance in the 4th his calls are way different and I believe 3rd down rate improves. I wish he called a whole game this way. I have observed this many times and far appreciate this than what he rolls out there earlier. Btw. His aggressive version is not crazy. But its just better imo

6 - dude does work his arse off

Great list, i agree with all your points. #2 drives me crazy, solid adjustments, but why wait till halftime? I wonder if he's too busy coaching LB's when def is on the sideline?
 

UgaBlows

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,412
Our DT's have been lacking for a while, we often have 1 really good one, but the other is marginal with NO quality depth. I believe that is slowly turning around.
 

jgtengineer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,754
Defense is a strange beast in general in these games. Scheme and Talent go hand in hand, it also is nearly impossible to truly gauge different era's against each other due to changing offensive trends.

Gailey's years were the years the ACC was actually viewed as a defensive conference. Most teams were running some form of power running game, 14-7 games were common all over the league. We ran an attack first defense designed to blow up running games. Tenuta's defenses were extremely vulnerable to spread passing attacks see Matt Ryan but we didn't play those kinds of attacks that much. So Tenuta's numbers actually benefit a lot from the fact that the ACC in general was not a high scoring league.
for example in 2006 here is the Points per game stats

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/points-per-game?date=2007-01-09

notice the only ACC team in the top 10 is clemson, then you have to go all the way to 38 to get to florida state. The two teams that won the divisions this year are outside of the top 50. This was a very different ACC. Just 2 years later we have CPJ, Cuttcliffe, Dabo taking over. And a lot of schools switch to spread attacks.

Spread offenses are designed to isolate and attack individual matchups. You don't have to beat the entire defense... just one guy. They are designed to equalize talent disparity whether they do it through the option like we do or through spreading the field and throwing quick game passes and using RPO's to create isolation. In this universe you have to approach the game very different. PJ hired wommack who did an OK job against these teams with NFL starter caliber defenders. Groh was a miss completely. So he went with Roof after.

Roof faces a very interesting problem with the ACC. At GT we judge our success two ways, acc titles and record against UGA. As much as people talk about how unique our offense is to deal with. In the terms of the ACC, uga's offense is anachronistic. The only team that runs anything close to a Pro Style attack that we play regularly is Pitt. Everyone else is the spread. Its up tempo offenses, its no huddle attacks designed to isolate defenders. Roof's solution to this problem was a very read and check heavy defense to allow the players on the field to get into the right play based on formation and film study. To generate turnovers. The shift to a base 4-2-5 is to help counter the personnel mismatches that happen against spreads ( you don't want line backers on 4.3 slot receivers.) Unfortunately such defenses require exceptionally long hours in the film room to get. Our athletes have less time for that especially during Midterms and other academic milestone weeks. Which also happens to be right around the time we typically "simplify the defense and get better". Roof is addressing that this year. Which is year 5 and the first year that most of the defense is comprised of his recruits.

A defense designed to counter the Spread has troubles with power run games. the uga game is a completely different game to call and we have actually played better defensively in these games since Roof has been here. That kind of defense is his comfort zone. our two losses
2013 - Vad goes turnover happy, offense can't hold on to the ball, defense that lacks depth gets tired stopping Todd Gurley an nfl starter caliber back.
2015- We can't do anything on offense. Defense holds the dwags to 13 points with their only touchdown coming off a 4th down run where we sell out to stop the run and get beat.

Compare that to 2009 where we can't stop the run to save our life ( if you want to know why wommack got canned it was this game)

So has roof underperformed? Yeah I think he has but it isn't because he's stuck in his ways and isn't adapting. The only missing piece from the Roof defenses is nfl caliber talent on the d-line at the DE position generating pressure on the QB with 4. Once you have that, the blanket coverage read and react approach is the text book way to stop a spread. This is the Show year.
 

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,670
OK, so I not posting this to spread a rumor since it's been posted in this forum previously. I find it hard to believe, but I thought it worth asking if anyone knows if it's legitimate.

It's been said that Roof plays favorites which sometimes is not the same as playing the best. After we seemed to have a decent game against Vanderbilt, we didn't see Kallon, Lewis, or Curry as much.
Idk if I would say that he plays "favorites" I have wondered if he will play a guy that's started 2 years and in the system for 3 or more years over a guy who is a freshman that might be a tad better with more upside. Almost like Roof just gets "use" to the older guy without realizing that the other guy might be a little better. I was so confused to see Rod Rook in over Simmons. I heard that Rod was more fundamentally sound, but at some point you have to say does that outweigh the playmaking ability of another guy. Imo Simmons playmaking ability should have had him starting over Rod.
 

Milwaukee

Banned
Messages
7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I was (re)watching the 2014 Orange Bowl the other night, and Jesse Palmer mentioned several times what a good job Ted Roof has done coming in and simplifying the defense so that they can play faster (same script different year). But he also mentioned, and I thought this was a good point, that our defense only really gets "game speed" practice against our offense. When they do practice against a more typical offense, it's against the scout

DC's have come and gone, but the head coach has remained the same.


He's also not been able to hire the D.C. He wanted because of funds. Can't blame him for that.

I don't blame Paul for not bringing in the right guy. I just think his offensive scheme hurts our actual starting defense from a preparation standpoint. What else explains how bad we've been defensively through Groh, Wommack, and Roof? Besides numbers that we were ranked 34.976 against P5 schools and 38th in PPD and all that jazz, etc etc. The D has been our achilles heel since Paul got here, that's been the constant. Before anyone freaks, I personally want Paul to stay for another decade.
 
Messages
2,034
Player names changed but the issues were largely the same personnel wise.
-2009 starting front 4
Egbuniwe, Logan Walls, Ben Anderson, D Morgan (only one guy playing at elite level)
-2010
Cross, Walls, Jason Peters 3/4 scheme none playing at elite level (sneezy a true frosh)
-2011 ditto
(Sneezy at OLB getting there but not elite as a sophomore imo.
2012
-Dieke, TJ Barnes, Cross, (OLBs sneezy playing elite, Brandon Watts undervalued asset)
-2013
Sneezy at DE now playing elite, Cummings, Gotsis a sophomore, Dieke
-2014
Rod Rook, Green, Gotsis (junior starting to play at high level), Stargel
-2015
Rod Rook/keshun frosh year, Green, Gotsis, Stargel
Gotsis playing at elite level injured and out midway through season.
-2016
Freeman, Kallon/Cerge, Gamble, Rook/Simmons

Never more than one guy per season playing at a high level. So how do y'all rank this position group through the years? Any top 40s? 50s? 60s?

The battle is won in the trenches and we haven't had a line capable of winning the majority of matchups.

-2017
Freeman, Branch, Cerge/Adams, Simmons
We need more than one of these guys playing at a high level to get the kind of D this board expects / desires. How many can or will? This question will determine whether we have a special season or not. This year is our best chance in a very long time imo.


But 2008 Morgan, Jonson, Richard, Walker all Elite and all play in the NFL.
 

jgtengineer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,754
I don't blame Paul for not bringing in the right guy. I just think his offensive scheme hurts our actual starting defense from a preparation standpoint. What else explains how bad we've been defensively through Groh, Wommack, and Roof? Besides numbers that we were ranked 34.976 against P5 schools and 38th in PPD and all that jazz, etc etc. The D has been our achilles heel since Paul got here, that's been the constant. Before anyone freaks, I personally want Paul to stay for another decade.

I don't think our offensive scheme necessarily hurts the defense ( CPJ had extremely strong defenses at Georgia Southern). I do think though we have a few intangible things that might be limiting our recruiting where it didn't in the past on defense that coincide with CPJ starting. APR didn't become a thing until his tenure. There have also been limits based on how you can practice that have started since CPJ started here. The change in offensive trends from power run pro style offenses to spread offenses can't have helped either ( defenses tend to get lit up more in general now. see bama vs ole miss.) We need to not forget that Roof won a national championship by shutting down the Chip Kelly Spread. playing the exact same defensive scheme we employ now, he simply had an nfl starter at nose.
 

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,670
I don't blame Paul for not bringing in the right guy. I just think his offensive scheme hurts our actual starting defense from a preparation standpoint. What else explains how bad we've been defensively through Groh, Wommack, and Roof? Besides numbers that we were ranked 34.976 against P5 schools and 38th in PPD and all that jazz, etc etc. The D has been our achilles heel since Paul got here, that's been the constant. Before anyone freaks, I personally want Paul to stay for another decade.
I see this, but remember we run a scout team just like every other team does. So I could use the same thing , that a pro style I formation offense doesn't help a D that is always facing a spread option attack. You prepare for the offense you are facing every week. If anything our system should help against teams that run read option plays a lot because it will help with keeping your assignment. Imo we just haven't found the right coach that fits the GT culture and the right scheme put together. I think Roof has the GT culture down, and I think he can coach good. I just think we are missing the right scheme to maximize the guys ability. Sometimes as a coach you need to play to your players strengths even if that means you have to evolve and learn a new system. I wouldn't even mind his scheme with some wrinkles from other schemes to be honest.
 

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,670
We've also had coach Mac and coach speed around since 2010ish. Maybe they need walking papers as well.
That's comparing two assistants to a coordinator, they are totally different things. The coordinator is responsible for not only the players on that side of the ball but the assistants as well. He brings in the guys he want to coach under him and they are responsible to coach and tech as the Coordinator wants them to.
 

Lavoisier

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
847
That's comparing two assistants to a coordinator, they are totally different things. The coordinator is responsible for not only the players on that side of the ball but the assistants as well. He brings in the guys he want to coach under him and they are responsible to coach and tech as the Coordinator wants them to.

I agree but I think of we change coordinators we should clean shop. I haven't been happy with the fundamentals for a long time here. It probably won't happen because Paul Johnson is very loyal to his position guys but we need a change in culture on the D.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Exactly. This list reads like any other gt d other than 2007/08

2006. One of our best d

Adam oliver. Was ok. Got slammed alot on the boards. Was equal to cummings imo
Darell roberson. Was ok. Not as good as sneezy.
Joe anoai. At that time. Equal to or better than gotsis.
Richard or anyaibe. Neither was in his own yet both soph.

As a 4-3 vs 3-4 tough to compare to 2013. But its not like it was blow my socks off good.

That was your starting 4 all year.

2004. Another good salty d. Starting dl
Gerris Wilkinson and undersized lb convert
Eric henderson
Travis parker
Mansfield wrotto who should have been OL but due to flunkgate

That 2014 d u show had 4 nfl players on it.

Just like 2006. And 2004.

My point is valid. We have never had great dl at tech with more than one elite or really really good player at one time other than 2008 and 2007.

So how did these teams outproduce? From my eyes its not all on the dl. That 2004 unit was particularly thin on dl. Yet still managed to be a better unit than any roof has had.

And the backend had nfl players in 2004 like roof had in 2014.

Its far more than JUST the dl. Saying its the dl is an easy out. Its bigger than that to me. We should be better. Not top 20. I agree. But top 40 or 45 in efficiency and way better than we are in pressures, sacks etc as a unit

Imo that 2004 DL was vastly superior to any DL during CPJ era. Not even close by my eyes.

Side note, Oliver > Cummings
 
Top