Official Ted Roof Discussion Thread

[ilovetheoption]

Recruiting has definitely seemed to have an uptick since he got here, but after 5 years I would like to see some improvement on the field. If we can make it into the top 50 defensive rankings I'll be thrilled.

I mean, this is sort of the end of the discussion. If the recruiting uptick leads to improved defenses, scheme be damned, then fine. If it doesn't, then fine, but recruiting only matters as it influences performance.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Not the bottom of the pack of all college football, but definitely much lower than the four or five ACC teams that stand between us and division title, and definitely lower than the best six or seven teams in each of the power five conferences. So yes, there is probably going to be at least forty teams out there that have better players on defense than we do. But fortunately, our defense doesn't play their defense, so we can mitigate the situation with an offense that trumps their defense. Our defense just has to be better against the opposing offenses. If it can result in two more wins per year, 7-5 can become 9-3. I think the dream would be a top drawer defense to go along with our offense.

We were 94th in D efficiency, that's bottom of the pack. I get our offense offsets things, but if we want to win 10 plus games consistently, it will take us fielding a better D imo.

 

[melloace]

I agree I think an attacking style defense that occasionally gives up the big play works out much better in our favor than bend don't break. Our offense thrives on wearing down the other teams front 7 and playing aggressive and getting the offense back on the field works out to our advantage for several reasons. It gives their D less time to make adjustments on the side - CPJ is the master of adjusting to what the defense is giving him and if they have less time on the sideline to try to change up what they're doing to match it's GT advantage. We tire out their defense making the Bback dive more and more lethal, and we're usually just plain more efficient on offense then most of the teams we play.

See other teams make bit plays on us sucks, but honestly seeing 3rd and 12 and knowing there is a big chance the other team is going to pick it up more than half the time is awful.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

We were 94th in D efficiency, that's bottom of the pack. I get our offense offsets things, but if we want to win 10 plus games consistently, it will take us fielding a better D imo.

Correct, but the response was about us having athletes that were the bottom of the pack. My opinion was we have, have had, and will always have lesser athletic talent across the board than many of our opponents. We have a pretty good record of coaching them up. The criticism of late is that CTR is not coaching them up sufficiently to have a double digit win record. I don't know. Hell, I don't even know what "an RPO team" means.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

I agree I think an attacking style defense that occasionally gives up the big play works out much better in our favor than bend don't break. Our offense thrives on wearing down the other teams front 7 and playing aggressive and getting the offense back on the field works out to our advantage for several reasons. It gives their D less time to make adjustments on the side - CPJ is the master of adjusting to what the defense is giving him and if they have less time on the sideline to try to change up what they're doing to match it's GT advantage. We tire out their defense making the Bback dive more and more lethal, and we're usually just plain more efficient on offense then most of the teams we play.

See other teams make bit plays on us sucks, but honestly seeing 3rd and 12 and knowing there is a big chance the other team is going to pick it up more than half the time is awful.

Don't you think the better teams on our schedule have OC's that have a keen understanding of our defensive philosophy, what we intend to do, and how to attack us successfully? I do. Everybody plays a field position game, but most use their defense to control that. We have to rely on our offense to move the ball and either score or punt. Even when we give our defense a "long field" we are still at risk. Our defense gets jobbed in the same way the triple option offense wears down our opponent. We give up field position, our stellar offense is off the field, and we let the opposing offense either score or shorten the game. It is a complete reversal of what we usually want to do.

 

[Chris Freeman]

So you think our personal is so bad that they are bottom of the pack in college football? I find that hard to believe.

I think its bottom half of the conference, yes. Honestly, so is our offensive personnel but we have a system that negates some of that gap in talent and requires a type of player that strays a bit from the traditional, though not as much as we pretend. The problem is that on defense we don't have a unique system that we are recruiting to so where 3 Star players can look like 4 Star players in our offense, 3 Stars look like 3 Stars on our defense. I would also like to add that we do a good job of evaluating talent and getting some of the best of the 3 Star players out there, hence the Alabama's of the world taking a look at our commitment list when they need to fill last minute holes... but i don't believe for a second that anyone on this board wouldn't trade for FSU, Clemson, or even Miami level talent, especially on defense. I'm not sore about it, "it is what it is," but the talent gap is what is preventing us from being an elite team, not the coaching staff. Now, continue to flounder with the apparent uptick in talent and I'll agree that he needs to go. Again, I'm reserving judgement

 

[ilovetheoption]

also, finally somebody compiled points per drive, offensive and defensive (which many of us have argued is really the only stat that matters, as if filters out biases for big plays or passing or running or whatever)
http://www.bcftoys.com/2016-ppd

Columns OPD and DPD are of interest. The stat filters out clock kills and garbage time. It also looks like bowls are not included. It also looks like it's not SOS adjusted. That said, it's a good stat.

Here are GT's relevant ranks
Year, Offensive Rank, Defensive Rank
2016, 32, 71
2015, 85, 80
2014, 4, 93
2013, 49, 79
2012, 18, 84
2011, 17, 81
2010, 55, 66

Soooooooo..... these numbers are not SOS adjusted, but they're not pretty. Yes, GT has to go against some tough offenses, but so does everybody else.

Perhaps a marginal improvement for Roof last year? It was the best performance of his time at GT, and maybe we could say that particularly in the second half of the season things improved?

I sort of think regardless, this is his "up or out" year. He has a full cycle of "his guys" that have been recruited by him, trained under him, and worked with him their entire careers. Every dude on that defense today is "his guy". Either he can produce with his guys, or he cannot. If GT is in the 50's this year in DPD, I think he's a keeper. You can maybe expect marginal improvement from there, as his recruiting successes build, but if you don't see that jump this year, I doubt it's going to happen.

 

[iceeater1969]

Roof/Tenuta comparison (Scoring Defense)

2013 Roof #29/ Tenuta #99 (UVA)
2014 Roof #53/ Tenuta #33 (UVA)
2015 Roof #51/ Tenuta #96 (UVA)
2016 Roof #39/ Tenuta not a DC
2017 Roof tbd/ Teunata... still not a DC

I know, I know. This single stat doesn't tell the whole story, not even close. But my point is to question how is Tenuta and his scheme performing against "modern offenses". Heck, nobody even wants him to be DC anymore.

No p5 runs a ball control clock eating offense like gt. The rules for holding and protection of (usually very tall ) qb make most teams dink and dunk pass to twart aggressive sell out defense. Tennuta is not viable.


We are miles and miles from aggressive gap shooting DL defense.

My pet peeve is that our dl almost always chuck , read then move to qb or rb. Our small DE are told to pinch the giant OT who grabs and holds them so they get no rush till 5- 6 seconds. Iirc Last play in acc champ with 3 rd down and 4 we needed a stop to have a chance. We lined up in regular base but lb closer to line. De was not set out wide so when he ran into the giant fsu it, the Fsu guy grabbed him and headed towards sideline - actualky carrying our de = Calvin cook went wide untouched thru a giant hole. We went down with a passive call.

Maybe there is a plan = take along time to get to qb so he waits to pass and the receivers have run to our drop back coverage.?? Deserves some thought.

On a positive note in recruiting we are getting taller de and shorter dt who like are not projects.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Correct, but the response was about us having athletes that were the bottom of the pack. My opinion was we have, have had, and will always have lesser athletic talent across the board than many of our opponents. We have a pretty good record of coaching them up. The criticism of late is that CTR is not coaching them up sufficiently to have a double digit win record. I don't know. Hell, I don't even know what "an RPO team" means.

My bad I had said our D was bottom of the pack (wasn't talking about talent) so I thought you were referring to that. But yea we will have less talent than a lot of teams we play on that side of the ball, atleast by the recruiting services lol. I just find it hard to believe that our D talent is 94th in the country. I can't think of anyone thats really been coached up to be a stud on D that had not been inherited.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I think its bottom half of the conference, yes. Honestly, so is our offensive personnel but we have a system that negates some of that gap in talent and requires a type of player that strays a bit from the traditional, though not as much as we pretend. The problem is that on defense we don't have a unique system that we are recruiting to so where 3 Star players can look like 4 Star players in our offense, 3 Stars look like 3 Stars on our defense. I would also like to add that we do a good job of evaluating talent and getting some of the best of the 3 Star players out there, hence the Alabama's of the world taking a look at our commitment list when they need to fill last minute holes... but i don't believe for a second that anyone on this board wouldn't trade for FSU, Clemson, or even Miami level talent, especially on defense. I'm not sore about it, "it is what it is," but the talent gap is what is preventing us from being an elite team, not the coaching staff. Now, continue to flounder with the apparent uptick in talent and I'll agree that he needs to go. Again, I'm reserving judgement

I'm not talking about our conference, I'm talking about in all of college football. We were 94th in D efficiency. I don't think for one second that our talent level is that bad. I agree 100% our system does not allow our guys to play at a highler "star ranking" and that's the reason I can't stand what we do on D. I guess what I'm trying to say is, our talent level is not 94th but our scheme makes it to be that. If we were Bama we would be fine because we could win the one on ones without confusing the offense. But we're not, imo we need more stunts, twist exotic blitz/coverages to confuse the offense and allow our guys to capitalize on that. You can do that and still play simple and fast it's not rocket science for the guys to learn that kind of stuff. Hopefully Roof simplifying things early like he is and allow the guys to run fast will help, only time will tell.

 

[ilovetheoption]

btw, what is the reason for not having the ability to go back and edit a post? I wanted to clear up some of the formatting on my post, and maybe add some additional info, and now i can't find the button. wusupwidat?

 

[stech81]

Don't have a feel one way or the other. But do hate to see a CB line up 8-10 yards off the WR and it's 3th and 5 yard for a first down. and don't get me started on covering the TE , but that has been a problem a long time.
I going in with a positive attitude this year till I see the same thing on defense.

 

[GTBatGirl96]

I was (re)watching the 2014 Orange Bowl the other night, and Jesse Palmer mentioned several times what a good job Ted Roof has done coming in and simplifying the defense so that they can play faster (same script different year). But he also mentioned, and I thought this was a good point, that our defense only really gets "game speed" practice against our offense. When they do practice against a more typical offense, it's against the scout team, which can't possibly run it at the same speed as our opponents. So it's the same argument about why our offense does so well against other teams (their scout team can't practice it at the same speed), just turned around on us. I don't pretend to know anything about defensing schemes, but it seems valid that the nature of our unique offense would _always_ cause our offensive performance to exceed our defensive performance, as our defense never gets a chance to practice against a typical, first team offense.

 

[kg01]

I'm just 'in' to derail this thread the way all the Roof discussion derails like every other thread.

 

[Techster]

Um, has anyone caught the somewhat concerning thread with every DC that's coached at GT under CPJ? The theme of "we need to simplify" the defense for our players...

Seems like we hear it every year. Hopefully, with guys that have been in the system for 3-4 years under Roof, we start hearing more "We're expanding what we do to take advantage of X and Y."

 

[AE 87]

Roof/Tenuta comparison (Scoring Defense)

2013 Roof #29/ Tenuta #99 (UVA)
2014 Roof #53/ Tenuta #33 (UVA)
2015 Roof #51/ Tenuta #96 (UVA)
2016 Roof #39/ Tenuta not a DC
2017 Roof tbd/ Teunata... still not a DC

I know, I know. This single stat doesn't tell the whole story, not even close. But my point is to question how is Tenuta and his scheme performing against "modern offenses". Heck, nobody even wants him to be DC anymore.

In the points/drive (link above) rather than misleading points/game:
2013 Roof #79/ Tenuta #89
2014 Roof #93/ Tenuta #25
2015 Roof #80/ Tenuta #91

Using FEI Def from footballoutsiders.com:
2013 Roof #77/ Tenuta #70
2014 Roof #70/ Tenuta #21
2015 Roof #62/ Tenuta #80
2016 Roof #94

 

[lv20gt]

Why not just combine this with the Groh and Womack threads. Similar things being said. Just change the names. Well, change the dc names at least.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

So you think our personal is so bad that they are bottom of the pack in college football? I find that hard to believe.

I am not a defensive guru, but I think the answer is a bit more nuanced than just a "talent" issue. In 2009, we fired Wommack and hired Groh, thus changing defensive schemes. Thus, while we had talent on the team, it wasn't necessarily talent recruited for that specific scheme. Three years later we change DCs, and scheme, again. Once again, the first few seasons our defenses were playing 4-2-5 & 4-3 with guys recruited for the 3-4. I would have thought last year would have been more improved based on finally having a multitude of players recruited for the current scheme, but alas, last year started poorly on D, and while it got better, it wasn't nearly as good as it should have been. I think this year is probably a make or break year for CTR. Unless we see improvement, I think it's hard for CPJ to justify keeping him.

Just to note, the scheme change mostly affects our front 7, not our secondary. It's the complete lack of pass rush that is most worrisome to me. We lose a few battles in the secondary, but generally, it's been the strength of our D. It would be nice to get them some help this season.

 

[iceeater1969]

33
If u do your stats on D, I will keep a post kick off stat. I will count Time and plays till the opponent is at 50 with note for turnovers.

I sit on south 35 row 6. Decesion tree to offer to get wife a coke follows. If we kick North , I wait because they will be at mid field quickly and at red zone before I get back. Might make it for their score.
If south, I go and hope to watch from tunnel from refreshments (no view from row 6) .
Will report after 4 games.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Ok, so here is my take on all of it.
I have been watching Tech since 1969 and have to pretty much say that we do not always have a dominant defense. 1970,1975,1985,1990,1996,2006,2008. The key to those years was we got some good D-line and some good linebackers.
Now today let's face a fact I throw out often, well good to great d-lineman, well we can't get enough of them into Tech. That is just fact. Look at the SEC around us.
With the evolution of offense I would pretty much say no team has a dominant defense any more. Alabama, yea, when they play LSU, but look what Clemson did to them.

What we need for CTR to do is to get one more stop per game and an extra one half turnover per game. CPJ knows he can limit the other team to about 8-10 possessions and history has taught us that he is going to score on at least 60% of his possessions. Just adding those numbers would give us 1-2 more wins per year.