OC Hire

Whiskey_Clear

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What you keep slamming your fist on the table about is nothing more than your negative perception of our program that is simply not based in historical fact. You sound like a fan of a rival of ours.

This program has shown it can recruit at a Top 25 level before yet you choose to completely abandon that more positive narrative in favor of your more negative one. Very hard to understand.

Top 25 has been the exception not the rule. But it is possible to do at Tech. I do think CGC has a chance to do it but it is by no means crazy to be skeptical he will or assert what a monumental task it will have been if accomplished.
 

deeeznutz

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Top 25 has been the exception not the rule. But it is possible to do at Tech. I do think CGC has a chance to do it but it is by no means crazy to be skeptical he will or assert what a monumental task it will have been if accomplished.
Some people are just insane apparently. I don't know how a GT fan can look at the realities of our school and not have it be blatantly obvious that it is very hard to recruit high level athletes to come here. It's not just "our negative perception", it's reality. The same basic things about our school that make it so academically elite present hurdles for our athletic department to clear. Acknowledging it isn't anywhere close to throwing in the towel and "accepting mediocrity". Pretending those difficulties aren't there is just really, really dumb (and will likely make you judge Coach Collins more harshly, if he struggles at all in bringing in the level of players you want). I really wish I could know what these fans are thinking, because I don't see any logic to it.
 

Boaty1

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Top 25 has been the exception not the rule. But it is possible to do at Tech. I do think CGC has a chance to do it but it is by no means crazy to be skeptical he will or assert what a monumental task it will have been if accomplished.

You are correct in that it has certainly been the exception under our last 2 coaches. One a pro guy with limited experience in the college game and with recruiting upon taking the job. And with a guy running an offense that was perceived as hurting ones chances to get to the next level. There is evidence out there that before these 2 we recruited at a higher level consistently. With our last 2 coaches I’m not sure we ever gave ourselves much of a chance to recruit well.

In fairness, both coaches got fairly reasonable results in the win/loss category for GT even with this poor recruiting.
 

awbuzz

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Let Key go recruit at Ball State instead of Bama for 4 years. If he’s still in the top 10 hire him...even if his prior negative recruiting will be thrown in his face with all of his recruits.

Pretty much thinking the same. Is he at #2 because he's at Alabama? How'd he do at Temple? Vanderbilt? Indiana?

Hell, I might be a to 50 recruiter if I showed up on the doorsteps at Alabama and started handing pout offers too.
 

Boaty1

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Some people are just insane apparently. I don't know how a GT fan can look at the realities of our school and not have it be blatantly obvious that it is very hard to recruit high level athletes to come here. It's not just "our negative perception", it's reality. The same basic things about our school that make it so academically elite present hurdles for our athletic department to clear. Acknowledging it isn't anywhere close to throwing in the towel and "accepting mediocrity". Pretending those difficulties aren't there is just really, really dumb (and will likely make you judge Coach Collins more harshly, if he struggles at all in bringing in the level of players you want). I really wish I could know what these fans are thinking, because I don't see any logic to it.

I think coach Collins is capable of bringing in the type of classes O’Leary, Lewis and Ross brought in. Time will tell if I’m right. If I’m wrong however it will be because of funding and not academics.
 

deeeznutz

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You are correct in that it has certainly been the exception under our last 2 coaches. One a pro guy with limited experience in the college game and with recruiting upon taking the job. And with a guy running an offense that was perceived as hurting ones chances to get to the next level. There is evidence out there that before these 2 we recruited at a higher level consistently. With our last 2 coaches I’m not sure we ever gave ourselves much of a chance to recruit well.

In fairness, both coaches got fairly reasonable results in the win/loss category for GT even with this poor recruiting.
Keep in mind before our last 2 coaches was nearly 20 years ago, and the entire college football landscape was completely different back then. Recruiting budgets were peanuts (except for the occasional Trans-Am), there was no APR, no BCS, ESPN was only one network instead of controlling the entire narrative around CFB, etc, etc, etc. What we were able to do in that world is entirely different from what we can do in today's world. And BTW, this is decidedly not a "woe is us" post...I think we can absolutely compete for a shot at our division title, which gives us a shot at conference title, which gives us a shot at the playoffs. We just need to be smarter about how we go at it because our margin for error is razor thin compared to the Bamas, Clemsons, ugas, et al.
 

deeeznutz

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I think coach Collins is capable of bringing in the type of classes O’Leary, Lewis and Ross brought in. Time will tell if I’m right. If I’m wrong however it will be because of funding and not academics.
Would you change your tune about academics being an insignificant issue if Collins himself admitted that it provides some hurdles for us? It's not a crutch, it's just reality.
 

Boaty1

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Keep in mind before our last 2 coaches was nearly 20 years ago, and the entire college football landscape was completely different back then. Recruiting budgets were peanuts (except for the occasional Trans-Am), there was no APR, no BCS, ESPN was only one network instead of controlling the entire narrative around CFB, etc, etc, etc. What we were able to do in that world is entirely different from what we can do in today's world. And BTW, this is decidedly not a "woe is us" post...I think we can absolutely compete for a shot at our division title, which gives us a shot at conference title, which gives us a shot at the playoffs. We just need to be smarter about how we go at it because our margin for error is razor thin compared to the Bamas, Clemsons, ugas, et al.

I agree with you to an extent. Basically the change has really occurred since Johnson was hired as our coach so in reality none of us have any clue what our ceiling in regards to recruiting is in modern college football. I think most agree it wasn’t being reached by CPJ, but how much meat was being left on the bone by him? One way or the other we will find out over the next 5 years.

And for the record, the financial aspect of college football is what has changed over the past decade. The academic angle is still essentially the same beast it always has been that other coaches have overcome and I believe Collins can do it as well. I view APR as nothing more than a scapegoat. I know you disagree but I just wanted clarify my position.
 

Boaty1

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Would you change your tune about academics being an insignificant issue if Collins himself admitted that it provides some hurdles for us? It's not a crutch, it's just reality.

I agree it provides some hurdles. I just don’t view them as insurmountable and using them to explain in any way Johnson’s recruiting is what gets me going. He just couldn’t recruit. There is a reason he was never offered a job at a traditional power.
 

slugboy

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I agree it provides some hurdles. I just don’t view them as insurmountable and using them to explain in any way Johnson’s recruiting is what gets me going. He just couldn’t recruit. There is a reason he was never offered a job at a traditional power.

There’s a lot of evidence he was offered those positions (Auburn, at least). We fought off several other P5 schools to get him, and almost didn’t.

I agree he wasn’t a great recruiter—he was average for Georgia Tech. But traditional powers did come after him.


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bobongo

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There’s a lot of evidence he was offered those positions (Auburn, at least). We fought off several other P5 schools to get him, and almost didn’t.

I agree he wasn’t a great recruiter—he was average for Georgia Tech. But traditional powers did come after him.


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That was true then, but the fact that nobody has gone after Monken after he went 11-2 at Army (!) makes me think there's no appetite in P5 for that type of offense now.
 

Boaty1

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There’s a lot of evidence he was offered those positions (Auburn, at least). We fought off several other P5 schools to get him, and almost didn’t.

I agree he wasn’t a great recruiter—he was average for Georgia Tech. But traditional powers did come after him.


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Maybe so. I’ll defer to you on the traditional powers thing.

However, Johnson was not an average recruiter by GT standards. He was even below Gailey who was worse than the previous 4 coaches before him in that regard. This notion that we should base our expectations for recruiting off the Gailey years is laughable because I was around then and remember how upset people were because we weren’t recruiting like his predecessors. He was followed by a 3O coach however that was never going to recruit well and so Gailey’s classes have become standard.

I’m very excited we have a coach with recruiting chops to see what we can do in the current setting.
 

Boaty1

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How did we get back to CPJ recruiting in the OC thread? (Rhetorical)

I guess after PJs "audition" in the QL bowl, he won't be our next OC. (Tic)

Because Brent Key’s name got mentioned as a possible OC and one of his strengths is recruiting.
 

slugboy

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I don’t think we’re going to see Patanaude and Key as co-OC’s. I think Key makes more than Patenaude, and would be looking for the senior position.
I’m not sure what we’d offer Key that Bama wouldn’t top, unless it’s OC.


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