My first post: Crootin'

[pbrown520]

Why wouldnt you add those guys in? Guys like Lay and 6ft Chet Lagod played. He didn’t say starting Ol. He said Ol



Why Braun and Marshall included in this as they were no longer a part of the team?

add in a Chet Lagod, Cheyenne Hunt, Lucas Patelles and William Lay into your equation

Patelles is the LS. In no world should you average in a 5'8" LS non scholarship player to bring down the average and pretend that has any meaning. Same thing with Cade Long. The other true OL that are non scholarship aren't going to bring down that average enough when Lay is 6'2 and Wolf is 6'6.

Every scholarship athlete that was recruited and listed is 6'3" or taller except for 2. That includes:

Morgan & Morgan, Tufele, Hanson, Lee, Cooper, minihan, Maye, Aycock, Gibbs, Mckeehan, Jump, Clark, quinney, braun, defoor.

That's 16 underclassmen OL that were on the roster at the end of last year. Injuries and attrition did a number on that and left fewer obviously.

Bottom line is there are several non contributing scholarship athletes that are slightly undersized (6'3 - 6'5 280ish) and unable to make the field when we have a need. An infusion of talent is needed, but the scholarship athletes we had didn't come close to averaging 6'1-5 across the OL.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. This is a very good class that is only somewhat weak in the interior DL.

 

[Bogey]

I agree CGC is maybe exaggerating about the size of the OL he inherited to make his point that things are looking up for us in the future regarding our OL and football success. Let's run that lying bast**d out of town and go back to recruiting like we did in the last decade!

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[LibertyTurns]

Yes GT is the only team in the nation that inflates the size of it’s players in the media guide. Yeah that’s it.

 

[Jmonty71]

Cant believe the job Collins has done in recruiting so far. Best class since 2007. Now that Paul Johnson is gone is actually fun to follow recruiting again. Add that in with the fantastic job the staff has done with transfers as well. 1 5 star and 4/5 4 stars will be eligible to play and complete for the Jackets in 2020. With our schedule, we will need them. Via 247sports.com, if we land Gibbs coach Collins will have recruited SIX of the top 30 recruits(since trackable) in Tech history. Unreal!

Also, glad to be apart of gtswarm!

Recruiting well and winning football games are two different things. I agree, getting the tools to win, is a BIG thing. However; Collins has to be able to utilize those tools. I said this a lot, because it's true. Mark Ritch had top 3 class signings,after top 3 signings. Yet, that did not yield a National Championship, nor any top 3 finishes. I don't know enough about Collins yet, to say this will be the case. Only time will tell.

 

[iceeater1969]

Collins went to Western Carolina, his math may not be quite Tech standards. I think it was just hyperbole to make his point.

his point is not made for old nerds on this board who actually believe the gt supplied numbers are accurate to the third decimal.

since he has been here everything he does is presented for direction of his staff and consumption by future recruits.

In my career I had a few years as oil measurement engineer for Exxon so I know about measuremet precession, repeatability, error band, accuracy , etc. Sure if cgc was in statistics class or explaining why a pipeline system is loosing product he would be chastised for using too many decimals on one measurement.

For the 15 ND game endex, I went to north end of stadium to get an eyeball to eyeball view of both teams as the exited. I paid for a sideline pass to stand near the players during warm ups to get a close up view. I was amazed at what our players accomplished even though they were clearly undersized - as a group w some individuals being the exception. The nd and miami players looked like guys from central casting - uniformly way bigger.

We just got uniformly bigger ( and faster) players by out recruiting the non super factories.

Imo, cgc is building a case for factory recruits to join gt at the end of 21 season.

 

[gtcrew]

I am pretty sure you will never find a post where I said it couldn't be done. My assertion has always been, and will continue to be, that recruiting will have to improve, even beyond what we are doing now, if we want to compete with Clemson and uga, which to my understanding, is the goal. My statement was we will need to start cracking the top 15-20 yearly to have a shot at it. I will stand by that assertion. CGC has done a great job this year on the recruiting trail and I have not been shy about giving him credit for it. It's why I have called for him to get 4 years minimum to get his recruiting classes in before we fully judge him. What I don't abide is the senseless insulting of CPJ that so many posters like yourself constantly engage in. But you do you.

I got no dog in this fight as I love both guys, but if recruiting is important, such that you are arguing a historically great class isnt good enough and 15-20 will be necessary, then why would posting facts related to prrior classes being 40-70 be "senseless insulting of pj"?

Some people cross the line into needless trashing, but lets stop bickering where every time we credit something as improving the cpj police come out to defend his honor.

The guy was awesome, but he wasn't Jesus. He had plenty of shortcomings.

 

[danny daniel]

The thing I noticed about today was when CGC mentioned that our o-line averaged 6’1 260. I could almost get there after a few years of weight training and eating.

Convenient use of stats. Those numbers are no where near the ones related to the players who actually play in the games. For example I believe we have one Oline player, a walk-on, who is under 225 lbs.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I got no dog in this fight as I love both guys, but if recruiting is important, such that you are arguing a historically great class isnt good enough and 15-20 will be necessary, then why would posting facts related to prrior classes being 40-70 be "senseless insulting of pj"?

I wasn't referring to that particular post. That font has a history of lobbing insults at the past regime. Since he chose to add me into the discussion about people saying we couldn't recruit well, which isn't the position I've taken, I pointed out to him why I generally disagree with him, and it's not about recruiting...

 

[LongforDodd]

I'll channel my inner @Animal02 . We just have to win more!

He doesn't think Collins is a great coach. I don't think he ever said COllins couldn't recruit.

I'm hoping that the level of coaching this year was masked by the talent level. My thought is that we desperately need a 4 star kicker for KO and for place kicking. That will make coaching look better instantly.

Back to the OP, this is fabulous to see the talent coming in.

Nuke...I beg to differ. I don't think he has ever said anything that conciliatory about or towards Geoff.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I got no dog in this fight as I love both guys, but if recruiting is important, such that you are arguing a historically great class isnt good enough and 15-20 will be necessary, then why would posting facts related to prrior classes being 40-70 be "senseless insulting of pj"?

Some people cross the line into needless trashing, but lets stop bickering where every time we credit something as improving the cpj police come out to defend his honor.

The guy was awesome, but he wasn't Jesus. He had plenty of shortcomings.

As to the 15-20 argument, I stand by it. We have to get into the top 20 if we want to be competitive with uga and Clemson. Now, I think CGC can get us there. This year is a great starting point. Otherwise, we will continue to be a 7-9 win team and everyone will start to sour on this staff. If we want to win 10+ games on a semi-routine basis, we are going to have to have top end talent since we no longer run the 3O. I don't want to just beat uga every 4-5 years when they are in a down cycle. I want to beat them when they are ranked in the top 10.

 

[WreckinGT]

As to the 15-20 argument, I stand by it. We have to get into the top 20 if we want to be competitive with uga and Clemson. Now, I think CGC can get us there. This year is a great starting point. Otherwise, we will continue to be a 7-9 win team and everyone will start to sour on this staff. If we want to win 10+ games on a semi-routine basis, we are going to have to have top end talent since we no longer run the 3O. I don't want to just beat uga every 4-5 years when they are in a down cycle. I want to beat them when they are ranked in the top 10.

In fear of sounding too pessimistic, I can't even see consistent top 15-20 classes being good enough to compete with UGA and Clemson. If we want to compete with them, they are going to have to come down a level. Especially Clemson. South Carolina usually has top 20 recruiting classes and plays both every year. They are 1-9 in the last 5 years against them. Most of those games not even being competitive.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

In fear of sounding too pessimistic, I can't even see consistent top 15-20 classes being good enough to compete with UGA and Clemson. If we want to compete with them, they are going to have to come down a level. Especially Clemson. South Carolina usually has top 20 recruiting classes and plays both every year. They are 1-9 in the last 5 years against them. Most of those games not even being competitive.

I can't disagree with what you are saying, but SC has historically made poor coaching hires. Spurrier showed what can be done at USC given half a chance. They were beating both Clemson and uga regularly under him, and winning 9-10 games a year. The reality may be that only a handful of schools can make the playoffs, but if we want to be in that conversation at any point, we are going to have to build on this year and never back down. My biggest hope is that this year in recruiting, followed by a couple more big recruiting years and hopefully a bowl game in the next two year, encourages the fans and donors to open up their wallets and help fund the program. I want to see CGC have the ability to pay for the absolute best coordinators and position coaches available and keep them the way Clemson is doing theirs.

Now, it's entirely possible we might have a year or two where our ranking is artificially low because we have a small class, but as long as the ratings per player are coming up and we continue to win more and more head to head recruiting battles against the local factories, then we have a punchers chance.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

I hate GT fans

 

[GTJake]

I actually winced when I saw first time poster and then read a reference to CPJ and recruiting ... the new poster is now branded for life (sic).

 

[slugboy]

In fear of sounding too pessimistic, I can't even see consistent top 15-20 classes being good enough to compete with UGA and Clemson. If we want to compete with them, they are going to have to come down a level. Especially Clemson. South Carolina usually has top 20 recruiting classes and plays both every year. They are 1-9 in the last 5 years against them. Most of those games not even being competitive.

Syracuse was nowhere close to a top 15 recruiting team when they knocked off Clemson a couple of years ago. It was an upset, but recruiting in the top 20 and coaching well can get you the kind of team that can win these games.

What I want is to walk into these games against big teams favored and winning easily. Right now, walking into those games with a reasonable shot at winning looks like a good deal.


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[gtcrew]

I hate GT fans

Unnecessary comment.

Yes these two are being overly negative the day after a historic class exhibiting poor timing, but they arent over the line and the point isnt unfair.

Clemson and Georgie are quite different. They are both recruiting well, but Clemson is overachieving while Georgie is underachieving. Nobody is going to beat Clemson regularly right now unless you also recruit at the top and also overachieve. Iiwii. They will come back to earth. Its all cyclical.

Georgie will be easier, particularly with them going out of state to recruit where the game wont be as big a deal. We have shown we can beat them occasionally with far less talent so to close that gap is huge. To close it more will also be huge.

CGC did a tremendous job landing a top 25 class off of a 3-9 record 13 months in. We are getting national attention for having done that. If anyone thinks top 15 classes is a stretch they are very mistaken. When CGC recruited Tech in 2007 off of a good WL record he was literally #15. As long as this staff is here and still energetic we will have very good classes, and when we turn the corner on wins its liable to be "no cap".

What will be more interesting is if we are as good at scouting and developing as I think we are (gold colored glasses and all). There is often quite the difference between where players are ranked and how good they turn out to be.

It seems obvious that we were in the insane position of picking and choosing at a lot of positions like DE, DB, WR, and LB from a bunch of top players who wanted to come here. Mindboggling really. Its very possible we could have moved up a few spots in the recruiting rankings by picking players the recruiting services rated higher, but we didnt go that route.

Anyway back to the original point, you are correct it is ridiculous today to lament Clemson being Clemson right now. But even Debbie Downers should realize that top 15 isnt just doable, its literally been done by CGC. And if he can do top 25 off 3-9, its all upside moving forward.

 

[91Wreck]

As to the 15-20 argument, I stand by it. We have to get into the top 20 if we want to be competitive with uga and Clemson. Now, I think CGC can get us there. This year is a great starting point. Otherwise, we will continue to be a 7-9 win team and everyone will start to sour on this staff. If we want to win 10+ games on a semi-routine basis, we are going to have to have top end talent since we no longer run the 3O. I don't want to just beat uga every 4-5 years when they are in a down cycle. I want to beat them when they are ranked in the top 10.

I agree of most of what you have stated here. But I do have one point to nitpick. I could be wrong, but you seem to infer that CPJ did a better job against UGA than we have done against them historically. It is true that CPJ beat two top ten UGA teams. And those were wonderful victories that I absolutely enjoyed. I am very grateful for them. But his overall record against UGA was actually slightly worse than what we have done in the past 50 years.

From 1958 to 2007 we won 14 out of 50 games or 28%
CPJ was 3 out of 11 or 27.3%

Before I get accused of cherry picking, 50 years is not cherry picking. We actually lost in 58 and 59, so it didn't help my argument to include those two years. I picked that 50 year time span because it is clear that UGA started dominating the series starting at that point. They have overwhelmed us now for 6 plus decades. The CPJ era did nothing to change that.

We should be thankful that CPJ righted the ship after 7 straight losses. But we lost 7 straight in the 90's as well and O'Leary responded with three straight wins.

CPJ was just average against UGA. I guess it is what it is.

 

[WreckinGT]

Syracuse was nowhere close to a top 15 recruiting team when they knocked off Clemson a couple of years ago. It was an upset, but recruiting in the top 20 and coaching well can get you the kind of team that can win these games.

What I want is to walk into these games against big teams favored and winning easily. Right now, walking into those games with a reasonable shot at winning looks like a good deal.


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Im not saying we can't pull off an upset against either one from time to time, I was more speaking to truly competing with them on a regular basis. Clemson has won 53 of its last 56 games and just pulled in one of the best recruiting classes in history. We aren't going to compete with that regularly with top 15-20 classes. Nobody is.

 

[GTJake]

Im not saying we can't pull off an upset against either one from time to time, I was more speaking to truly competing with them on a regular basis. Clemson has won 53 of its last 56 games and just pulled in one of the best recruiting classes in history. We aren't going to compete with that regularly with top 15-20 classes. Nobody is.

Amen to that !! ... Clemson is on an all-time high, they have won 28 games IAR, but it'll be cyclical, just like Alabama it won't be sustainable and they'll come back down to earth.
Heck, it hasn't been that long ago when we had their number.
Right now we need to take care of business in our own house and be ready for when it's time to take their place at the top of the ACC !!

 

[Techster]

People need to realize we don't need to recruit as well as UGA or Clemson. We don't. Consistent top 20-25 classes is going to win you a LOT of games.

GT is in the ACC Coastal. If we are consistently signing top 20-25 classes, developing our players, and they are progressing every year, then there's no reason GT shouldn't be favored to win the Coastal.

Do we want to win against UGA (f yeah!) and Clemson? Yes, every single time we play them. We're going to start winning our share, but there's only a handful of teams in all of college football recruiting on their level.

We don't need to recruit better than them to beat them...CPJ, Ross, and O'Leary all proved that. We do, however, need to close the talent gap and we are getting closer. 2020 class is a BIG step in the right direction.