Mutts

[awbuzz]

Let's not throw stones. Waller had his demons too and didn't get better until much later.

Don't think he was picking in him, just pointing out that it was "sad" that it had come to that state of life when great opportunities were available to him that most only fantasize about (play on a major level professional team, be it football, basketball, baseball, etc.).

 

[TooTall]

Speaking of mutts, I was in Blackshear visiting friends over the weekend and noticed that uga’s former national championship QB had moved back home. I know no details. But found it sad, like a southern gothic novel, that a QB destined for the NFL and the big city lights was back in a small depressed South Georgia town where they have a statue in his honor on one of their streets and he is still their hero.

I think many coaches not named Kirby Smart would have gotten that man some help while he was in college.

Third person info here so take it for what is worth but supposedly he is waiting for a spot at an exclusive rehab for celebrities.

Been over 6 months since I heard that so I don't really believe it. The drink isn't the worst thing in the world but it certainly can cost someone everything.

I do make fun of him for being in college long enough to become a surgeon and not getting his undergrad. But that is reflective of the system. We're used to the stories of the "housing project" getting passed through school just because of their athletic ability. But you can't convince me that he had this issue in Athens and the staff ignored it because he was helping them win. Sometimes the system is awful.

And now with the portal and NIL, we're going backwards an will start seeing more washouts and broke athletes once again like we did in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Don't think he was picking in him, just pointing out that it was "sad" that it had come to that state of life when great opportunities were available to him that most only fantasize about (play on a major level professional team, be it football, basketball, baseball, etc.).

Very sad! All those people worshipping him and pumping him up since high school and no one getting past that adulation and reflected glory long enough to give him a reality check and get him some help. It appears that with all his “second chances” it only served to get uga a natty but got him nothing at all. Don’t know where he goes from here but a lot of doors are closing for him.

I do believe there is a culture shift at uga, more extreme than under previous coaches, that didn’t serve him.

 

[kg01]

Very sad! All those people worshipping him and pumping him up since high school and no one getting past that adulation and reflected glory long enough to give him a reality check and get him some help. It appears that with all his “second chances” it only served to get uga a natty but got him nothing at all. Don’t know where he goes from here but a lot of doors are closing for him.

I do believe there is a culture shift at uga, more extreme than under previous coaches, that didn’t serve him.

The 'culture' at that place netted them wins but literally ... literally ... killed people. It should surprise no one to see a player left in the gutter by it.

Their stance is probably 'don't care, got natty'. Not even "probably".

 

[CEB]

Very sad! All those people worshipping him and pumping him up since high school and no one getting past that adulation and reflected glory long enough to give him a reality check and get him some help. It appears that with all his “second chances” it only served to get uga a natty but got him nothing at all. Don’t know where he goes from here but a lot of doors are closing for him.

I do believe there is a culture shift at uga, more extreme than under previous coaches, that didn’t serve him.

This comes to mind. Not football, but you get the idea…

Myra Fleener : You know, a basketball hero around here is treated like a god, how can he ever find out what he can really do? I don't want this to be the high point of his life. I've seen them, the real sad ones. They sit around the rest of their lives talking about the glory days when they were seventeen years old.

Coach Norman Dale : You know, most people would kill... to be treated like a god, just for a few moments.

Myra Fleener: Gods come pretty cheap nowadays, don’t they? Become one by putting a leather ball in an iron hoop….

 

[CEB]

The 'culture' at that place netted them wins but literally ... literally ... killed people. It should surprise no one to see a player left in the gutter by it.

Their stance is probably 'don't care, got natty'. Not even "probably".

I had no idea this had happened.. hopefully some wealthy influential folks who lived vicariously or even profited from his success will step up. Its one thing to look back on glory days, its quite another to see the future crumble. Hope that isn’t the case for him.

 

[LargeFO]

Very sad! All those people worshipping him and pumping him up since high school and no one getting past that adulation and reflected glory long enough to give him a reality check and get him some help. It appears that with all his “second chances” it only served to get uga a natty but got him nothing at all. Don’t know where he goes from here but a lot of doors are closing for him.

I do believe there is a culture shift at uga, more extreme than under previous coaches, that didn’t serve him.

Oh absolutely. Richt was a lot less "turn a blind eye" on most everything.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

This comes to mind. Not football, but you get the idea…

Myra Fleener : You know, a basketball hero around here is treated like a god, how can he ever find out what he can really do? I don't want this to be the high point of his life. I've seen them, the real sad ones. They sit around the rest of their lives talking about the glory days when they were seventeen years old.

Coach Norman Dale : You know, most people would kill... to be treated like a god, just for a few moments.

Myra Fleener: Gods come pretty cheap nowadays, don’t they? Become one by putting a leather ball in an iron hoop….

Rabbit Run series was also on my mind.

Someone could do an independent film about a character like Bennett that would fit the portrait we’ve described.

 

[forensicbuzz]

What stones? The man said he was saddened by it. Smells more like empathy to me.

Last paragraph

 

[forensicbuzz]

Don't think he was picking in him, just pointing out that it was "sad" that it had come to that state of life when great opportunities were available to him that most only fantasize about (play on a major level professional team, be it football, basketball, baseball, etc.).

I was commenting about the Kirby reference.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I was commenting about the Kirby reference.

You thought I was throwing stones at Kirby, huh? Sorry, any coach that has a consistent history of ignoring alcoholism among his players and staff does not get my respect. Every program can have a problem player but not every school has a problem program. The head coach is responsible for the culture.

 

[forensicbuzz]

You thought I was throwing stones at Kirby, huh? Sorry, any coach that has a consistent history of ignoring alcoholism among his players and staff does not get my respect. Every program can have a problem player but not every school has a problem program. The head coach is responsible for the culture.

Yes. Your description is the definition of throwing stones. I wasn't aware of Kirby having a consistent history of ignoring alcoholism. Could you share your knowledge?

 

[kg01]

@forensicbuzz

My guy, you think all the incidents coming out of Athens are because they have sufficient oversight?

Or that us having a player with substance abuse problems is on the same level as what they have going on?

Seems a bit odd to object to that stone being thrown.

 

[JacketOff]

Yes. Your description is the definition of throwing stones. I wasn't aware of Kirby having a consistent history of ignoring alcoholism. Could you share your knowledge?

UGA has had over a dozen active football players get arrested in the last 2 years, mostly for alcohol and traffic related incidents, with a couple of assault cases thrown in for good measure. How far back do you have to go to find 12 GT football players that have been arrested? 1996? Even earlier? It’s very clear what’s going on at UGA is not normal, even for premier programs. Look at their graduation rates: they’re last in FBS by a wide margin, and 2nd to last across all of D1, while Alabama is near the top. Georgia’s football program is operating well outside what seems to be nationwide standards across all levels, who’s at fault other than the man in charge?

 

[forensicbuzz]

@kg01 @JacketOff You guys are looking past what I said. I responded to a comment about a coach having a history of ignoring alcoholism. That has nothing to do with anything either of you brought up in your responses. Alcoholism is a disease. It doesn't equate to reckless behavior and a general lack of control by the coaching staff/head coach. What does "a history of ignoring alcoholism" have to do with graduation rates? The accusation I responded to isn't about alcohol-related incidents, traffic-related incidents, assault, graduation rates, or any of the sundry other idiotic activities going on up 78. It is about an insidious disease and addiction. Don't conflate a lack of institutional control with a history of ignoring alcoholism. None of what you guys have brought forth supports this.

Having a substance abuse problem that lead to the illness of addiction (alcoholism, drug abuse) isn't the same as being out of control. Certainly, one can lead to the other, but most college campuses have issues with alcohol-related incidents and drug use. That's what college kids do, get drunk and have sex and make bad decisions. The dependency on the substance is the difference. I agree the leadership in Athens has fostered a dangerous environment, but I haven't seen anything that supports the statement I responded to.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Yes. Your description is the definition of throwing stones. I wasn't aware of Kirby having a consistent history of ignoring alcoholism. Could you share your knowledge?

I’m not sure which piece of knowledge it is you are missing.

That uga has had multiple cases of DUI and that Stetson Bennett’s reported problems at uga were not dealt with? Or that the coach for this program is Kirby Smart?

What are you missing?

 

[kg01]

@kg01 @JacketOff You guys are looking past what I said. I responded to a comment about a coach having a history of ignoring alcoholism. That has nothing to do with anything either of you brought up in your responses. Alcoholism is a disease. It doesn't equate to reckless behavior and a general lack of control by the coaching staff/head coach. What does "a history of ignoring alcoholism" have to do with graduation rates? The accusation I responded to isn't about alcohol-related incidents, traffic-related incidents, assault, graduation rates, or any of the sundry other idiotic activities going on up 78. It is about an insidious disease and addiction. Don't conflate a lack of institutional control with a history of ignoring alcoholism. None of what you guys have brought forth supports this.

Having a substance abuse problem that lead to the illness of addiction (alcoholism, drug abuse) isn't the same as being out of control. Certainly, one can lead to the other, but most college campuses have issues with alcohol-related incidents and drug use. That's what college kids do, get drunk and have sex and make bad decisions. The dependency on the substance is the difference. I agree the leadership in Athens has fostered a dangerous environment, but I haven't seen anything that supports the statement I responded to.

Respectfully, sounds like you're just arguing to argue. You win, I'm out.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I’m not sure which piece of knowledge it is you are missing.

That uga has had multiple cases of DUI and that Stetson Bennett’s reported problems at uga were not dealt with? Or that the coach for this program is Kirby Smart?

What are you missing?

A DUI doesn't make you an alcoholic. You stated Kirby has a history of ignoring alcoholism. Big difference between that and reckless behavior. That was my point. I don't agree with your characterization regarding alcoholism. To me, a coach having a history of allowing bad/reckless behavior is not the same as a history of ignoring mental illness, which is what alcoholism is.

Respectfully, sounds like you're just arguing to argue. You win, I'm out.

It's not a contest. I was explaining why I said what I said. If you stop and think about it, I'm sure you'll see my point.

 

[TampaBuzz]

A DUI doesn't make you an alcoholic. You stated Kirby has a history of ignoring alcoholism. Big difference between that and reckless behavior. That was my point. I don't agree with your characterization regarding alcoholism. To me, a coach having a history of allowing bad/reckless behavior is not the same as a history of ignoring mental illness, which is what alcoholism is.


It's not a contest. I was explaining why I said what I said. If you stop and think about it, I'm sure you'll see my point.

Fine...Kirby has a history of ignoring alcohol abuse. Is that better? Doesn't alcohol abuse at a young age lead to alcoholism? Those young men at UGA need guardrails and stern punishment when they go astray; not a bunch of recruiting "assistants" that drink with them.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Fine...Kirby has a history of ignoring alcohol abuse. Is that better? Doesn't alcohol abuse at a young age lead to alcoholism? Those young men at UGA need guardrails and stern punishment when they go astray; not a bunch of recruiting "assistants" that drink with them.

First, I'm not defending uga, Kirby Smart, or anything in the cesspool over in Athens. I think Kirby has created a dangerous environment with his apparent laissez-faire attitude towards public behavior. I think the results are obvious (as everyone keeps pointing out).

Second, getting drunk is not alcohol abuse. Having partied with many fellow Tech students, including football players, we got drunk many, many times. Some of these people even did stupid things like drive and get DUIs. Not alcohol abuse in my opinion.

Third, alcoholism is a disease, a mental illness. Alcohol abuse can be an outward manifestation of that disease, but does not lead to the alcoholism. With young adults, it can be very difficult to differentiate between alcohol abuse and regular college partying. Unfortunately, I have very personal experience with this. Should a coaching staff (anywhere) have enough of a finger on the pulse of their program to know whether this exists; I don't know. I know Darren Waller has been very public about his substance abuse while at Tech and the staff apparently didn't understand the gravity of the situation to the point of getting him help.

So, while I find everything about uga sports reprehensible, I think saying Kirby has a history of ignoring alcoholism is a bridge too far and I said so. Full stop. Any of this additional conversation about the lack of control in Athens you all keep trying to bring into the conversation is outside of what I commented on.

I think I've made the intent of my comment clear. I'll not comment further. If someone wants further discourse, DM me.