MSU Defense

[UgaBlows]

I think they will stop us some in the first half kinda like clemson did, we have to do a good job on defense to stay in this till we knock the rust off

 

[GTRX7]

Dont think either are as good as Jarrett either...Preston is not a Beasley type...He is more of a physical run stuffer where as Beasley is a pass rusher.

Clemson was really the main defense that had success against us...I don't think the Miss St unit is as good but I think they are something close to VT.

The most CPJ has scored in a bowl game since he has been here is 27 and that was a OT game vs Utah...I just don't see us putting up massive numbers against Miss St. Hope I am wrong...I think if we win it will be a 24-21 type of game.

This is sort of how I feel. I am finding myself more pessimistic about this game than any game all season. I was also fairly pessimistic about the UGA game, so that is something. I hear what everyone is saying about being able to discount Miss St. based on their weak schedule and ignore our past bowl record based on JT and this year's O-line, but it has happened so many years in a row that I kind of need to see it before I can get too optimistic. I certainly think we can win, and I really really hope we do win, but I can't say I am confident that we will. We will find out tomorrow. Can't wait!

 

[Boomergump]

If you had to build a defense that was really good at stopping us, it would look like this:

1. Two beasty run stuffing DTs that are near impossible to push back or beat with quickness. Just being large and physical isn't enough. We play lower than most teams and come out quicker.

2. Two DEs that are very quick and very long. Mobility of DEs going against our offense is way more important than being crazy big or physical. We can option off a beast quite easily. The DEs that are quick enough not to commit to the dive or the QB and still make a play are the ones to watch out for.

3. A MLB who can really run. Speed is more important than brawn. Agility to defeat the cut blocks coming from the center of our OL and still get to flats in time to stop runners for a short gain.

4. CBs who can really cover one on one, freeing up safeties to line up shallow and fill run lanes.

5. A solid understanding of assignments and sound discipline by every member.

If you have those 5 ingredients, you can make it really tough sledding. I'll let you guys decide if MSU fits that bill or not. On the surface it sounds to me like they have some of the ingredients, but not others.

 

[jandrews]

If you had to build a defense that was really good at stopping us, it would look like this:

1. Two beasty run stuffing DTs that are near impossible to push back or beat with quickness. Just being large and physical isn't enough. We play lower than most teams and come out quicker.

2. Two DEs that are very quick and very long. Mobility of DEs going against our offense is way more important than being crazy big or physical. We can option off a beast quite easily. The DEs that are quick enough not to commit to the dive or the QB and still make a play are the ones to watch out for.

3. A MLB who can really run. Speed is more important than brawn. Agility to defeat the cut blocks coming from the center of our OL and still get to flats in time to stop runners for a short gain.

4. CBs who can really cover one on one, freeing up safeties to line up shallow and fill run lanes.

5. A solid understanding of assignments and sound discipline by every member.

If you have those 5 ingredients, you can make it really tough sledding. I'll let you guys decide if MSU fits that bill or not. On the surface it sounds to me like they have some of the ingredients, but not others.

Isn't this the formula for all offenses. To me when we have been stopped by a defense it's been physically being manhandled. There's has been times this was the case but we weren't running the offense as well:

 

[Boomergump]

Isn't this the formula for all offenses. To me when we have been stopped by a defense it's been physically being manhandled. There's has been times this was the case but we weren't running the offense as well:

I think the formula is a little different than for other offenses. If you were going up against UGA's offense the ideal defense would look a little different. You would want more beef at the DE position with the ability to pash rush being a premium. That way OLBs wouldn't need to bite as hard at play action. Your MLB would need to be in the 250 pound range to help stuff the run between the tackles. The premium for safeties who can really cover in space would be higher. In general, playing against us is more about speed than size and discipline more than aggressiveness. Remember, for every defender removed from the equation via the option, another has to replace him from behind.

 

[jandrews]

I think the formula is a little different than for other offenses. If you were going up against UGA's offense the ideal defense would look a little different. You would want more beef at the DE position with the ability to pash rush being a premium. That way OLBs wouldn't need to bite as hard at play action. Your MLB would need to be in the 250 pound range to help stuff the run between the tackles. The premium for safeties who can really cover in space would be higher. In general, playing against us is more about speed than size and discipline more than aggressiveness. Remember, for every defender removed from the equation via the option, another has to replace him from behind.

Oh I understand. Just trying to state that 1 the defense described in the original 5 points would be good against a majority of offenses. I haven't seen much of msu this year but I will say that our OL has shown they can handle some pretty good defensive players. In years past we had a hard time with gap penetrating DTs and the beast in the middles. Shaq has been great this year against both. Braun has struggled but he's a fighter and I trust those guys in the middle. I haven't read all the posts but honestly I'm not sure where msu ranks in defenses we have seen so far. Are they as athletic as fsu, uga, or clemson. Or are more scheme based like uva. Can't wait for tomorrow. Shut the cowbells up.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

I think I've already stated this in this thread, but I think citing past numbers for CPJ in bowl games discredits the O-Line we have this year. They are that much better than any we've had in the past. We push teams around, not the other way round.......

This is why we have the #1 O this year by FEI rating - we score more points per possession and have done so against stout Ds (Clemson #1, VT #2, UVa #7, FSU #17) with MSU being #10 ....... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef

The Iowa and LSU bowls were awful in how we got man handled, but I don't expect that this year at all. I expect us to be dishing out the pain when we have the ball. But we still have to score more points than MSU in a 60 minute period......

 

[GTNavyNuke]

If you had to build a defense that was really good at stopping us, it would look like this:

1. Two beasty run stuffing DTs that are near impossible to push back or beat with quickness. Just being large and physical isn't enough. We play lower than most teams and come out quicker.

2. Two DEs that are very quick and very long. Mobility of DEs going against our offense is way more important than being crazy big or physical. We can option off a beast quite easily. The DEs that are quick enough not to commit to the dive or the QB and still make a play are the ones to watch out for.

3. A MLB who can really run. Speed is more important than brawn. Agility to defeat the cut blocks coming from the center of our OL and still get to flats in time to stop runners for a short gain.

4. CBs who can really cover one on one, freeing up safeties to line up shallow and fill run lanes.

5. A solid understanding of assignments and sound discipline by every member.

If you have those 5 ingredients, you can make it really tough sledding. I'll let you guys decide if MSU fits that bill or not. On the surface it sounds to me like they have some of the ingredients, but not others.

With that D you'd stop pretty much everyone! Scheme only works if it can be executed. The players on this D can defeat their blockers and make any O look bad.

 

[JazzyD95]

With a speedly MLB Id think misdirection and the
Counter should be good this game. Let the MLB run himself out of the play.

 

[00Burdell]

My three-step analysis is this:

Step 1. We played five (five) teams currently ranked in the top 25 in Total Defense against FBS opponents (cupcake games excluded): Clemson, Miami, the Dwags, Virginia Tech and Virginia.

Step 2. Our record against teams in Step 1 is 5-0.

Step 3. Mississippi State is ranked #77 in total defense (versus FBS opponents).

 

[UgaBlows]

Yes, i like the sound of that ^^^

Add to that that their D-coord is gone and i like our chances very much

 

[thwgjacket]

Dont think either are as good as Jarrett either...Preston is not a Beasley type...He is more of a physical run stuffer where as Beasley is a pass rusher.

Clemson was really the main defense that had success against us...I don't think the Miss St unit is as good but I think they are something close to VT.

The most CPJ has scored in a bowl game since he has been here is 27 and that was a OT game vs Utah...I just don't see us putting up massive numbers against Miss St. Hope I am wrong...I think if we win it will be a 24-21 type of game.

Utah had the #11 defense in the country that year. #17 adjusted.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feidef2011
So not exactly a cupcake.

 

[Eric]

@thwgjacket

Yeah and the offense scored 20 points all game.

Our offense hasn't put up a ton of points in bowl games...that has to change for us to win this year IMO.

 

[Eric]

Here's what our O has done in bowl games

LSU 08 - 3
Iowa 09 - 7
Air Force 2010 - 7
Utah 2011 - 20
USCW 2012 - 21
Ole Miss 2013 - 17

We're averaging 12.5 ppg during bowl games.

 

[takethepoints]

I reiterate that the main thing here is MSU's lack of experience with an O like ours. I'm pretty sure that their DC and co. are going over how to defense us with a fine tooth comb and have probably come up with a scheme that would work if the players worked within it. However, I'm also sure that FSU did the same thing. Problem = both schools have fast players who are used to defeating blocks and running to the football. Trying to get an entire year of practice out of their minds when none of them have any experience with out O is, imho, not going to have any better results then it did with FSU. I expect one of two things to happen: a) their instincts to take over and the first half is like the one against FSU, or b) they sit back on their heels, waiting for cut blocks and uncertain what to do, like Ugag.

Personally, I'm hoping for b. If they sit back and let us drive block them, we'll be quite successful. If it's like a, then we had better hope we score a lot of points early on or we could have some real trouble.

And, btw, while MSU is pretty good, they never saw the game this year when they were as good as the Criminoles. If they can't win outright, they have trouble, unlike FSU.

 

[thwgjacket]

Here's what our O has done in bowl games

LSU 08 - 3
Iowa 09 - 7
Air Force 2010 - 7
Utah 2011 - 20
USCW 2012 - 21
Ole Miss 2013 - 17

We're averaging 12.5 ppg during bowl games.

And only one of those teams was outside of the top 30 in D. Air Force, who we played with our back-up QB and who runs the same offense as us. We obviously need to score more but even years we weren't very good we played good defenses. Look at bowl point totals when CPJ was at Navy, they scored plenty of points.
That Iowa D gave up 17 points or less in 9 games that year. That's crazy.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Past bowls, past teams. This current team plays hard every week. Yeah we lost to a pretty good Duke team. They caught us during finals I believe and we typically struggle then. UNC may have played their best game all year against us. We made adjustments on D afterward that have helped us.

Bottom line, this team doesn't quit. We may get beat but it won't be due to a lack of effort.

In prior bowl losses, our Oline was outmatched by opponent Dlines in most cases, LSU and Iowa in particular...even Ole Miss last year. I'll put our current Oline up against any Dline in college football. Hell they already proved their worth vs the best D this year (Clemson).

Yes we miss Smelter...I'm not overly concerned with our passing game. Waller is a threat and our abacks have caught well this year.

Our only real concern is the usual suspect...our D. They give tremendous effort. Have a tough assignment but I like our chances.

 

[GTRX7]

And only one of those teams was outside of the top 30 in D. Air Force, who we played with our back-up QB and who runs the same offense as us. We obviously need to score more but even years we weren't very good we played good defenses. Look at bowl point totals when CPJ was at Navy, they scored plenty of points.
That Iowa D gave up 17 points or less in 9 games that year. That's crazy.

I was curious and just took a look at his bowl record at Navy:
2003 (L) 14-38 vs. Texas Tech
2004 (W) 34-19 vs. New Mexico
2005 (W) 51-30 vs. Colorado State
2006 (L) 24-25 vs. Boston College
2007 team lost 32-35 vs Utah, coached by Ken Niumatalolo

 

[GTJoeBrew]

Here's what our O has done in bowl games

LSU 08 - 3
Iowa 09 - 7
Air Force 2010 - 7
Utah 2011 - 20
USCW 2012 - 21
Ole Miss 2013 - 17

We're averaging 12.5 ppg during bowl games.

None of those teams had an O-line as good as the one this year, or our wildcard (JeT).

 

[Eric]

Past bowls, past teams. This current team plays hard every week. Yeah we lost to a pretty good Duke team. They caught us during finals I believe and we typically struggle then. UNC may have played their best game all year against us. We made adjustments on D afterward that have helped us.

Bottom line, this team doesn't quit. We may get beat but it won't be due to a lack of effort.

In prior bowl losses, our Oline was outmatched by opponent Dlines in most cases, LSU and Iowa in particular...even Ole Miss last year. I'll put our current Oline up against any Dline in college football. Hell they already proved their worth vs the best D this year (Clemson).

Yes we miss Smelter...I'm not overly concerned with our passing game. Waller is a threat and our abacks have caught well this year.

Our only real concern is the usual suspect...our D. They give tremendous effort. Have a tough assignment but I like our chances.

Our O-Line didn't play too well against Clemson.

Smelter is a HUGE loss for us IMO...We seen that in the FSU game. Smelter saved us a ton of times in the Clemson game as well.