Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[Scubapro]

Id bring Tenuta back as DC. But that's just me.

This.
Maybe bring back Steve Shankweiler and Mike Cassity to make the circle complete.

 

[DavidStandingBear]

5 or 6 wins next year won't buy CGC another 2 or 3 years. That's what it was hoped we'd win this year. Next year's trajectory puts him at 7 wins, at least. At any rate, he'll be here next year so all we can do is hope for the best. I'm not confident, and hope is hanging by a thread.

maybe after 6 years we'll be almost as good as we were under CCG and CPJ? Nice!

 

[DavidStandingBear]

I used to think we had to recruit nationally, but I've been pleasantly surprised by the recruiting, most of it local.
The coaching, however, has been a Halloween nightmare. I agree that we can't compete with the factories being just like them, but we can do a helluvalot better than this.

hmmm yeah so I infer that we need to out recruit our opponents, have better coaching, game plans and execution, or have a strategic advantage?

 

[LibertyTurns]

A lot of coaches get fired for only winning 4 or 5 games per year. We could upgrade to one of those coaches. There’s probably plenty of them available.

 

[bobongo]

hmmm yeah so I infer that we need to out recruit our opponents, have better coaching, game plans and execution, or have a strategic advantage?

I didn't answer that question. I merely stated that we can do better than we are currently doing running a common scheme.

As for a strategic advantage, I would never turn that down if it isn't at the expense of recruiting. If it is, that factor would have to given consideration.

 

[bobongo]

maybe after 6 years we'll be almost as good as we were under CCG and CPJ? Nice!

Well, if we were winning 7 after four years, maybe after 6 we could be doing better, theoretically. And I was referring to the number of wins that would keep CGC above water with the fans.

Note that I didn't say I necessarily expected such under the current regime.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

It's never about the personalities That's a smokescreen. It's about the bottom line. If you look at our past 3 coaches, there has been a large % of the fanbase who have turned on them. Gailey? Too bland. Johnson? Too surly. Collins? Too gimmicky. I am sure that you remember the vast amount of energy wasted on those debates when CCG and CPJ were here.

Johnson when he was winning and beating the Dawgs? Straight shooter, tell it like it is kind of guy. Cremins when he was an annual top 10-15 program? "Silver Haired Whacko". At the end of his career people were ssaying he lost focus, was distracted, wasn't keeping up with the game.

Collins could come out this week and do his best Saban/Bellicik (sp?) impersonation at his presser. It wouldn't matter if we get beat at Miami.

I can understand criticisms pertaining to strategies or X's and O's. But when people start going off the rails about what is said/not said, clothing, mannerisms, etc. I don't really care for that. Why? It is superficial and does nothing to move things forward. Coaches should be judged on their bottom line solely. Right now, I (and most everyone else) have serious concerns based on what I see. But i don't care what he chooses to wear or what he says in his pressers. Just win or at least convince me that things are moving forward at an adequate rate. Actually I see improvement from years 1 to 3. However the trend line slope is not very steep. Or at least not steep enough now to make us all feel good about the future.

Not what I was saying. His personality isn't the issue. It's the salesman persona. When you are perceived as a salesman, your product better be worth buying. We needed a salesman, but we probably could have used less "Billy Mays" in the approach. You see this by overuse of words like "elite" and "effort" in all his pressers. At some point, you make those words meaningless when they aren't used to describe things that actually meet the criteria. Sure, they make recruits feel better to have a little sunshine blown their way, but in the long run, it's not accurate, and after a year or two, the fanbase starts to see right through it. That's where we are right now. IMO, and I stress opinion, he would have been much better off explaining the process in terms so that people could measure progress. Yes, a few blowhards would have pitched a fit, but the larger fan base would probably have understood the needed changes and would better understand the time involved to enact them. As it stands, what we "see" right now is a salesman that has failed to deliver simply because the fan base wasn't made aware that the results would take a while to manifest.

Nothing to do with personality, all to do with perceived expectations vs reality.

 

[DavidStandingBear]

Well, if we were winning 7 after four years, maybe after 6 we could be doing better, theoretically. And I was referring to the number of wins that would keep CGC above water with the fans.

Note that I didn't say I necessarily expected such under the current regime.

oh I was piling on in agreement with you

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I said upon his hire that his salesman persona reminded me too much of Butch Jones. While that's great for recruiting, it can come back to bite you if you can't get results. I'm still in the camp of wait until after next year, but a lot (most? all?) of his current bad PR is his own fault.

I agree with this but I will say that this is Coach Collins' program for better or worse. Let him run it his way but right now it would appear that he is close to running this program into the ground and a never never land of reduced expectations and irrelevance such as has been experienced by former elite programs like Tennessee and Nebraska. It happened to them so it can certainly happen to us.

 

[bke1984]

Well in 3 or 4 years he may evolve into being as good coach. We intentionally went for a coach that had no track record or relevant experience to speak of. So we're a coaching developmental program.

Can’t really afford that sort of thing. So basically we should win 3 games a year for 6 years until he’s “pretty good?” Sounds like a good plan

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Just a side observation. Watched the MSU - UM game yesterday. The MSU players walk pre game......they were all in sports coats, most wearing ties, did see one set of head phones on. They were focused on the business ahead, and acted and dressed like it.

Ask Miami about those boys. They were all business in that game and smacked the mighty Canes right in the mouth.

 

[bke1984]

hmmm yeah so I infer that we need to out recruit our opponents, have better coaching, game plans and execution, or have a strategic advantage?

Definitely TIC here, but it’s not that far from the truth. I mean the way we schedule we should be getting 2 wins a year almost guaranteed. So we are asking a coach to win 4 of the remaining 10 consistently. I really don’t think that’s an unrealistic expectation.

 

[bke1984]

Ask Miami about those boys. They were all business in that game and smacked the mighty Canes right in the mouth.

Doesn’t always work that way, but at least you don’t look foolish when you lose.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I used to think we had to recruit nationally, but I've been pleasantly surprised by the recruiting, most of it local.
The coaching, however, has been a Halloween nightmare. I agree that we can't compete with the factories being just like them, but we can do a helluvalot better than this.

No doubt about it, Coach Collins and his staff are recruiting better, however, the lines are a long way from being where they need to be and I am beginning to think recruiting linemen may require a huge investment in recruiting nationally because in that area it is simply not getting done just yet. We may see fruits of this labor in coming years but right now the recruitment and development of linemen on both sides of the ball remain the number one challenge for this program as it is for just about any team outside of the factories who can simply buy what they need.

 

[cthenrys]

This is what some of us (his harsher critics) have said from jump. He put all his credibility on the line betting on early performance. When that didn’t come the hype became laughable. Those that pointed this out were shouted down quickly. The emperor has no clothes. It’s just taken longer for some to see it.

Can he turn it around ? It’s not impossible but I do not believe it and struggle to understand those that do. In the end we have a major problem and all solutions involve more pain than patience.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I agree with this but I will say that this is Coach Collins' program for better or worse. Let him run it his way but right now it would appear that he is close to running this program into the ground and a never never land of reduced expectations and irrelevance such as has been experienced by former elite programs like Tennessee and Nebraska. It happened to them so it can certainly happen to us.

Agreed, which is why I said "I'm still in the camp of wait until after next year,..."

 

[Vespidae]

Interesting ESPN article mentioning Geoff as the first "director of player personnel" in CFB.

"Collins, who was coming off two years as a defensive coordinator at Western Carolina, saw it as a possible dead end and was hesitant -- he wanted a role that would give him flexibility. If he couldn't get back into coaching, he thought he might like to transition to an NFL front office. He had noticed how people at the pro level were being named director of player personnel, so he asked about creating that position instead."

That appears to be his forte ... roster management. And probably perfect to flip the roster at Tech. The gist of the article is that there is now, thanks to Geoff, a career path for folks who aren't very good at coaching or don't have the desire.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Interesting ESPN article mentioning Geoff as the first "director of player personnel" in CFB.

"Collins, who was coming off two years as a defensive coordinator at Western Carolina, saw it as a possible dead end and was hesitant -- he wanted a role that would give him flexibility. If he couldn't get back into coaching, he thought he might like to transition to an NFL front office. He had noticed how people at the pro level were being named director of player personnel, so he asked about creating that position instead."

That appears to be his forte ... roster management. And probably perfect to flip the roster at Tech. The gist of the article is that there is now, thanks to Geoff, a career path for folks who aren't very good at coaching or don't have the desire.

Basically, a high paid HR Manager? That makes sense. Although, if a RIF is required, I don't think CGC has the skills or stomach for doing the dirty work, although he might could do it in a passive aggressive way?

 

[Bonaire41]

Got a good night's sleep. I agree with the following points:

• CGC is obviously in over his head
• CGC seems to be more concerned about being loved by his "family", the team and coaches, than he does about winning (I believe he is far from a disciplinarian)
• CGC is not a good decision-maker consistently in game situations
• CGC is a better marketeer/salesman/recruiter than a "leader" of men
• Recruiting, at some point, will be impacted by what is happening on Saturdays
• GT is in a supremely difficult position, although there is enough money to change directions, if those with the $$ decide they want to do it
• We probably won't give up on CGC until year 5
• GT needs a practical, smart, tough HC who can, along with a great staff of innovators, out think the opponents' staff
• Fans/Alums are tired and in despair - less butts in seats is the obvious proof of that

My fear is that because the ACC is so bad, we will win 5=6 games next year, and this will buy CGC another 2-3 years. With that said, if that 5-6 wins somehow means the corner is being turned, of course, I would be happy. But, we will know when we play the best teams whether we are really turning the corner or not. We will also know by the number of poor coaching decisions through the season. We will also know by the improvement of the individual players. We will also know if the recruiting is staying where it must stay for this experiment to have limited success. (top 30) Without a few high end big nasties on the D-line, we are never going to be a 9-10 win team again, and that is true no matter the coach, unless we have some offensive system (I don't care which one) that can outscore good teams.

Have you seen our schedule next year. We will most likely start out 1 and three. We got Clemson western Carolina Ole Miss and Central Florida to open the season up. If we lose the rest of games this year and one of the 4 next year we would be 1 and 10 and Collins wil be fired after the ucf loss

 

[JacketintheNati]

Id bring Tenuta back as DC. But that's just me.

I believe his son plays for Va Tech on the OL and he is a defensive advisor for them.