Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[LibertyTurns]

Agree, but I think the AD made his own bed and had to lie in it. Everyone had to be all in on this grand new experiment for it to work and that included jumping in on every aspect of the hype train.

Many on this site were skeptical but wanted to at least give this experiment a chance so they tolerated an unseemly and unprofessional amount of CPJ bashing.

The problem is where do we go from here. The new car smell has worn off and we have discovered we have over paid for a vehicle that didn’t have all the features we were promised. A new paint job won’t do it but how much of the engine needs changing? Or do we go back to the factory for a new model off the line that isn’t a lemon?

Sunk cost/loss is also a challenge for some of us. I STILL want CGC to succeed. But does my very yearning for this success put me in denial about what I am seeing on the field?

There was nothing wrong in Tstan or CGC’s goal or the thoughts behind it- change the perception of GT, recruit better, then the wins will come. The need to disenfranchise a portion of the fanbase by clever potshots at the old regime put people on their heels, some over their skis. Now we got a problem & it’s a classic leadership issue. How do you decide if the seed you planted has not germinated yet or it ain’t never going to grow?

We need to keep the media strategy, maybe some of the more embarassing elements need to be tempered but in general it’s better and needed.

We need to figure out if we’re actually recruiting better. Is it the media strategy leading to our recruits getting an under the radar point or two bump now we didn’t get before, is it the fact we’re recruiting more skilled players ala our peers and less role players, is the fact we’re recruiting in different numbers? We clearly have 1 way above average recruit- Gibbs, one that may be above average- Sims, then what? Just saying, I see all the hype but other teams with youngsters have them playing and contributing way earlier than GT does typically.

Lastly, coaching clearly needs changes. They are a level or two above where each of them should be. I’d start with the assignments/roles of Key, second target would be Thacker and it’s close, then there’s the other one I won’t mention because he seems to be a darling on here. He’s doing less with more OR we go back to my statement above that recruiting just isn’t really there like we think it is. It’s not neither.

It’s time for Tstan engagement. If I were him, I’d get CGC out of the traditional HC role and get someone competent underneath him. Put CGC in a CEO/media role selling the program, get a HC running the program underneath him, I’d find Key a position like asst line coach, Thacker might be another keeper in the non-DC role, the last one has no role. He hit his glass ceiling at 1AA and has nothing really to contribute at this level.

If Tstan does not move rapidly, ie by the end of the season, he risks everything and will further damage GT football for a very long time. The revenue picture cannot look good & you can’t keep asking people to pony up when extreme apathy has set in across the program. Only VT looks more apathetic than GT does, their team did not even care yesterday. There’s a fork in their coach already, he’s done. We got beat by a team that has for the most part given up, nothing more startling than that yesterday. Please Tstan, do something.

 

[MWBATL]

This info is second hand, so take it with a grain of salt…A guy who sits on our row at BDS said he recently met the father of one of our current players, and the player had told him (the father) that several team members have expressed the opinion that CGC should spend more time coaching (and all that entails) and less time trying to be their best friend. This may or may not be true or it may be just the thoughts of a small minority of players, but this is something that several GTSwarmers (myself included) feel is a valid concern.

This is interesting. I sat at yesterday's game next to a recent player (2005-2010) who said *exactly* the same thing. Also knows CTC very well, makes me worry if there is some dissension on the staff as well. Argued that in fact we *do* have much better talent than is being shown by our play. Stated that Collins needed to stop trying to be "friends" with the players. Even went as far as saying that talent-wise, we are better than half the other teams in the ACC. I don't know how well he knows these things, but as a former player, who likely is similar age to many of our current coaches, I suspect he has a clue.

 

[LongforDodd]

I know a couple that are still huge GC supporters.

They may be supporters but they didn’t want or expect this ineptitude near the end of year three.

 

[bke1984]

nm

All I see are teams like Cincinnati , Wake Forest, Baylor and the like in the polls. And the I wonder, do they have anything on us?

We recruit better than Wake now, so we’ve got that going for us.

 

[LongforDodd]

Broke *** school is the reason why it will

I’m betting Collins won’t be here in 3-4 years if this **** show continues after year 4

 

[SandySpringsJacket]

I have been going to games since the 70s and a season ticket holder for over 30 years. I liked the CPJ era and am a big fan of him, but was in full support of TS for hiring CGC. It seemed at the time that it was a way to energize the fan base, increase attendance and help us go to the next level. CGC got me excited about the new recruits that were coming in and things looked great. But it has become apparent that there is poor coaching at so many different levels that have been pointed out ad nauseum on here for the past year or so. And one of the reasons I supported him...to boost attendance.... has failed. Our crowds now are noticeably smaller that they were under CPJ or any coach I can remember. Of course that is because fans want to win and that ain’t happening. And unfortunately, the schedule is not getting any easier.
But look on the bright side, “the players are elite, they understand the culture and they play at a high level each and every play”...

 

[Pointer]

They certainly don't have unique offenses as some suggest is required.

The answer depends on the narrative you want to craft

• Cincinnati - Senior, first round NFL QB
• Baylor - is it sustainable? They won 2 last year.
• Wake - 5 of 6 years going to a bowl. Though Clawson is 8 years in and this year will be his first with a winning record in the ACC. OOC scheduling helps.

Without being an expert on any of their rosters, I think this is probably the best answer, albeit oversimplified.

I think you are 100% correct in your post regarding all of those teams.

Does a unique scheme on either side of the ball help? I think so especially when it's difficult to recruit. While CGC has improved recruiting, I still don't believe he'll ever achieve Miami levels, let alone UGA regarding recruiting. I say that because that's what it will take for them to win anything of substance due to the obvious lack of coaching ability.

Now regarding the unique offense statement, those of us who want Monken here want that not just because of the offense he runs. He's also a proven winner. He's coached here before and understands the limitations. He can win big with the type of players we can get here. He also brings a DC with somewhat of a unique scheme that can also do more with less. He's also coached here and has a proven track record.

Does that mean he's the only coach who can make it happen here? No. Bring in a good coach and they can get decent results.
With Monken, we know what we are getting so therefore it's a no brainer.

With all that said, if we do, by some miracle, bring Monken back, it would be a damn shame not to give him the same resources as Geoff has been given.

 

[Animal02]

It's never about the personalities That's a smokescreen. It's about the bottom line. If you look at our past 3 coaches, there has been a large % of the fanbase who have turned on them. Gailey? Too bland. Johnson? Too surly. Collins? Too gimmicky. I am sure that you remember the vast amount of energy wasted on those debates when CCG and CPJ were here.

Johnson when he was winning and beating the Dawgs? Straight shooter, tell it like it is kind of guy. Cremins when he was an annual top 10-15 program? "Silver Haired Whacko". At the end of his career people were ssaying he lost focus, was distracted, wasn't keeping up with the game.

Collins could come out this week and do his best Saban/Bellicik (sp?) impersonation at his presser. It wouldn't matter if we get beat at Miami.

I can understand criticisms pertaining to strategies or X's and O's. But when people start going off the rails about what is said/not said, clothing, mannerisms, etc. I don't really care for that. Why? It is superficial and does nothing to move things forward. Coaches should be judged on their bottom line solely. Right now, I (and most everyone else) have serious concerns based on what I see. But i don't care what he chooses to wear or what he says in his pressers. Just win or at least convince me that things are moving forward at an adequate rate. Actually I see improvement from years 1 to 3. However the trend line slope is not very steep. Or at least not steep enough now to make us all feel good about the future.

I disagree. You can get away with stuff after you have proven yourself (by winning in this case). You can't when you have no history. And the history he has built in three years here, including how he dresses and handles himself at pressers, reinforces the perception he is in over his head.

 

[Animal02]

I think you are 100% correct in your post regarding all of those teams.

Does a unique scheme on either side of the ball help? I think so especially when it's difficult to recruit. While CGC has improved recruiting, I still don't believe he'll ever achieve Miami levels, let alone UGA regarding recruiting. I say that because that's what it will take for them to win anything of substance due to the obvious lack of coaching ability.

Now regarding the unique offense statement, those of us who want Monken here want that not just because of the offense he runs. He's also a proven winner. He's coached here before and understands the limitations. He can win big with the type of players we can get here. He also brings a DC with somewhat of a unique scheme that can also do more with less. He's also coached here and has a proven track record.

Does that mean he's the only coach who can make it happen here? No. Bring in a good coach and they can get decent results.
With Monken, we know what we are getting so therefore it's a no brainer.

With all that said, if we do, by some miracle, bring Monken back, it would be a damn shame not to give him the same resources as Geoff has been given.

The Geoff cult still believes that the limited number of degree offering at Tech is not an issue, as well as this infatuation with chasing future NFL stars.
There is a reason GT, and schools like the service academies and the Ivy league are no longer the powerhouses they once were.
The "portal" and naming rights crap will just make it worse.

 

[stech81]

I disagree. You can get away with stuff after you have proven yourself (by winning in this case). You can't when you have no history. And the history he has built in three years here, including how he dresses and handles himself at pressers, reinforces the perception he is in over his head.

Fact CGC did not have the experience to be a Head coach at Tech. Yes we all know he was the Head coach at Temple because he keeps bring it up along with how great he was as a DC at Miss State and UF . I don't remember any fans at Temple saying he did a great job and wanted him back but they have with the coach he replaced .

 

[Pointer]

The Geoff cult still believes that the limited number of degree offering at Tech is not an issue, as well as this infatuation with chasing future NFL stars.
There is a reason GT, and schools like the service academies and the Ivy league are no longer the powerhouses they once were.
The "portal" and naming rights crap will just make it worse.

I also think you give Monken the same resources as Geoff, you won't see much of a drop off in recruiting as many think. People forget the 2009 and 2010 classes were pretty decent, when we were still putting money into the program.

 

[CuseJacket]

I think you are 100% correct in your post regarding all of those teams.

Does a unique scheme on either side of the ball help? I think so especially when it's difficult to recruit. While CGC has improved recruiting, I still don't believe he'll ever achieve Miami levels, let alone UGA regarding recruiting. I say that because that's what it will take for them to win anything of substance due to the obvious lack of coaching ability.

Now regarding the unique offense statement, those of us who want Monken here want that not just because of the offense he runs. He's also a proven winner. He's coached here before and understands the limitations. He can win big with the type of players we can get here. He also brings a DC with somewhat of a unique scheme that can also do more with less. He's also coached here and has a proven track record.

Does that mean he's the only coach who can make it happen here? No. Bring in a good coach and they can get decent results.
With Monken, we know what we are getting so therefore it's a no brainer.

With all that said, if we do, by some miracle, bring Monken back, it would be a damn shame not to give him the same resources as Geoff has been given.

My mental health is at stake to dive too far into the "what offense do we need to run" debate. I am sympathetic to your POV re: Monken and enjoyed CPJ's personality and his offense.

I just don't think we are pigeon-holed to that offense as a means for success, and my comment re: Cincy, Baylor Wake was meant to be just that. We can succeed a number of ways as schools with traditionally lesser recruits have shown.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

It's never about the personalities That's a smokescreen. It's about the bottom line. If you look at our past 3 coaches, there has been a large % of the fanbase who have turned on them. Gailey? Too bland. Johnson? Too surly. Collins? Too gimmicky. I am sure that you remember the vast amount of energy wasted on those debates when CCG and CPJ were here.

Johnson when he was winning and beating the Dawgs? Straight shooter, tell it like it is kind of guy. Cremins when he was an annual top 10-15 program? "Silver Haired Whacko". At the end of his career people were ssaying he lost focus, was distracted, wasn't keeping up with the game.

Collins could come out this week and do his best Saban/Bellicik (sp?) impersonation at his presser. It wouldn't matter if we get beat at Miami.

I can understand criticisms pertaining to strategies or X's and O's. But when people start going off the rails about what is said/not said, clothing, mannerisms, etc. I don't really care for that. Why? It is superficial and does nothing to move things forward. Coaches should be judged on their bottom line solely. Right now, I (and most everyone else) have serious concerns based on what I see. But i don't care what he chooses to wear or what he says in his pressers. Just win or at least convince me that things are moving forward at an adequate rate. Actually I see improvement from years 1 to 3. However the trend line slope is not very steep. Or at least not steep enough now to make us all feel good about the future.

This isn’t unique to GT. This happens with every coach for every team. It’s the human condition. Remember, we aren’t any better or any worse than any other fan base. These same criticisms are on every team board. And lastly, you do realize these boards are where fans go to rant and get it off their chest, right? It’s not like fans are protesting at the Presidents house or wearing bags over their head at the stadium, This is the place to let it out. You may not care for it but this is by far the most civil way for fans to convey their feelings.

 

[Animal02]

Fact CGC did not have the experience to be a Head coach at Tech. Yes we all know he was the Head coach at Temple because he keeps bring it up along with how great he was as a DC at Miss State and UF . I don't remember any fans at Temple saying he did a great job and wanted him back but they have with the coach he replaced .

Just a side observation. Watched the MSU - UM game yesterday. The MSU players walk pre game......they were all in sports coats, most wearing ties, did see one set of head phones on. They were focused on the business ahead, and acted and dressed like it.

 

[Pointer]

My mental health is at stake to dive too far into the "what offense do we need to run" debate. I am sympathetic to your POV re: Monken and enjoyed CPJ's personality and his offense.

I just don't think we are pigeon-holed to that offense as a means for success, and my comment re: Cincy, Baylor Wake was meant to be just that. We can succeed a number of ways as schools with traditionally lesser recruits have shown.

That's what I'm saying as well, just that Monken is a proven winner and would probably come here if offered. Not saying that's the only way to win. You just know what you get with that decision.

 

[Animal02]

That's what I'm saying as well, just that Monken is a proven winner and would probably come here if offered. Not saying that's the only way to win. You just know what you get with that decision.

Tech will never consistently compete with the factories, trying to be just like the factories. Being in downtown Atlanta is not the edge that the GC fans think it is.
The unique offense, the selling of the education to the 97% that will never make it in the NFL were the right direction. I have always thought that nationwide recruiting was another avenue.....but that takes $$$$.

 

[Pointer]

Tech will never consistently compete with the factories, trying to be just like the factories. Being in downtown Atlanta is not the edge that the GC fans think it is.
The unique offense, the selling of the education to the 97% that will never make it in the NFL were the right direction. I have always thought that nationwide recruiting was another avenue.....but that takes $$$$.

So true. Look at coach Ross's team makeup from 1990.

 

[JG3]

Time should be measured by how much leeway a program is willing to give a HC to effect change. In that sense, time is a finite number that is rarely agreed upon before the coach takes the job. In a normal program, it can be understood to be 2=3 years. In our situation, it's probably 4-5 years.

Every time you enact a coaching change you are in essence resetting the clock. That's a major reason I am willing to be patient for another year or two. I don't want to start over from scratch yet again.

College footballs history is filled with very successful two year turn arounds, just ask Michigan St.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

The problem with this post is that it identifies a problem then doesn't see that the problem is an argument for doing things differently.

It is true that the Tech football program has funding problems and that this lead to a salary problems. My reaction was a simple one: so what else is new? This has been a problem at Tech approximately forever. And Tech has a solution: use a hard to defense O and hold on in the fourth. We've been doing that ever since Dodd (he complained about lack of support too). When we do we are successful. When we don't we have problems winning.

Maybe you are right and we can recruit the level of talent we need to win using the real high school offense we now deploy. As to the second: a lot of us have contributed to the program (I have), but our alumni base is too small to reach the IPTAY level. We aren't a factory program (let me repeat that: we aren't a factory program) and we won't be able to fund one, even with the additional TV money. But, shoot, Wake isn't one either and they're 8 - 0. We're Georgia Tech. We can do that. If we have a coaching staff that can make it work and an AD who will schedule so we can win more regularly. That's what's needed.

Maybe Collins is the answer to that; it's still early days. But evidence for that is sparse on the ground at present.

Dodd said something in his autobiography that was true then and continues to be true today: Paraphrasing here from memory: "I can make a difference as a coach on offense much more than on defense. Defensively, either you have the players or you don't. " Like about 90 other programs desperate to be relevant on the national scene, we simply lack across the board talent on defense. We damn near got plowed for 500 yards by one of the most challenged offenses in the ACC. UGA, LSU, Alabama, and the other usual suspects simply buy players they want. Not all of them or even most of them mind you, but enough 5 stars and 4 stars in areas of need to make a huge difference. Either we adopt this mindset or scale our expectations down more than a few notches. IIWII

 

[4shotB]

This isn’t unique to GT. This happens with every coach for every team. It’s the human condition. Remember, we aren’t any better or any worse than any other fan base. These same criticisms are on every team board. And lastly, you do realize these boards are where fans go to rant and get it off their chest, right? It’s not like fans are protesting at the Presidents house or wearing bags over their head at the stadium, This is the place to let it out. You may not care for it but this is by far the most civil way for fans to convey their feelings.

I get that a lot of people enjoy talking about clothing, uniforms, catch phrases, et al. The evidence indicates that I am the "one off" on this and I am okay with that. Venting however is (imo) a waste of time. I think the program would benefit more if the same energy from were focused on problem solving. That (imo) is more valuable and interesting than the sweatshirt the coach wore to his presser. Again I really don't expect many to agree with my view point on this.