Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[billga99]

Is the debate of Johnson vs. Collins ever going to end? Paul Johnson had a good run and retired for whatever reason. Since he has not taken another job, I assume he is okay with being retired. Collins is never going to run the 3O and my guess is GT will never hire another 3O coach. So whether Collins remains or not depends on using a non 3O offense and finding a way to succeed. There are lots of way to run option plays from the shotgun and many teams do. I think we need a more varied offense than we have exhibited the last 3 years. Way too predictable. Hopefully our new OC will put us in more consistent schemes to succeed.

 

[stech81]

And yet CPJs teams would be at the line of scrimmage a good 6-8 seconds sooner than last year’s team. They can send plays in by smoke signals or telegraph for all I care, just don’t get to the line of scrimmage with no time for an audible or, even worse, have to call a time out or receive a delay of game penalty (which quite often was followed with another penalty like a false start).

Now that would be cool if FSU would use smoke signals to call plays in

 

[Boaty1]

Complete garbage post. Nothing but a lot of confirmation bias. A tweaked version of the spread option can still be viable. Probably just needed to be tweaked to an RPO version under gun with a mixture of under center. All of the concepts are still used today even in the NFL to great success

That would be a pretty significant tweak my friend. Johnson could certainly never figure it out.

 

[bobongo]

since 2014 paul was getting beat like a drum by clemson. he got kirby one year then his offense was completely ineffective after.

As was just about everybody else, lol.

 

[bobongo]

youre asking a coach that still had a player run to the sideline to get the play in to make adjustments to his offense?

No, he did not have a player "run to the sideline". He sent a player in with the play from the sideline. And they were lined up and ready to go, too, unlike the confused clustermuck we've seen under Collins.

 

[JacketFan137]

No, he did not have a player "run to the sideline". He sent a player in with the play from the sideline. And they were lined up and ready to go, too, unlike the confused clustermuck we've seen under Collins.

i’m not saying that as a criticism i’m just saying this to illustrate the fact that paul was set in his ways for better or worse. the claim he would have just needed to adjust his offense is from someone living in some hypothetical la la land cause it’s quite obvious a guy who didn’t even have a play card was not about to reinvent the wheel and redesign HIS offense.

also i am at a loss for words as to why there’s people that don’t understand what has been repeated 1000 times over: whatever shortcomings collins and his staff have doesn’t automatically mean everything under paul johnson was flawless and perfect. to act like it was always rainbows and butterflies is definitely looking back with rose tinted glasses.

i should probably stop commenting on this before i get a reputation as a paul johnson hater or a collins truther when that’s not the case at all. i think both have done good and bad (with paul obviously being better) but neither is immune from criticism.

 

[takethepoints]

brother that louisville team won 2 games that year. one was indiana state and the other was western kentucky who went 3-9 lol

they probably gave up 60 points per game in the acc and went 0-8. they were literally worse than any team geoff collins has coached. what i said may be too harsh and even incorrect but this is hardly the game to use to dispute what i’ve said

how about you post the drubbings that uga and clemson gave us, as well as the minnesota bowl game where we were well and truly finished.

Oh well, since you insist:



Oh, and the reason I didn't post those losses is that, if you recall, in 2018 Clemson was the undefeated national champion and Ugag went 11 - 3. Or, to put it another way, 99% of all football teams in the country would have lost to those teams. By that reasoning the only way that P5 football got past Paul was because he couldn't defeat the national champion (and neither could anyone else) or the no.8 team in the country that lost to only LSU, Bama, and Texas. And, btw, in 2018 we lost to Clemson by 28 (just like no. 3 Notre Dame) and by 24 to Ugag (one point more then #9 Florida and #11 Kentucky). TL/DR = we did about as well against these teams as everybody else did.

 

[JacketFan137]

Oh well, since you insist:



Oh, and the reason I didn't post those losses is that, if you recall, in 2018 Clemson was the undefeated national champion and Ugag went 11 - 3. Or, to put it another way, 99% of all football teams in the country would have lost to those teams. By that reasoning the only way that P5 football got past Paul was because he couldn't defeat the national champion (and neither could anyone else) or the no.8 team in the country that lost to only LSU, Bama, and Texas. And, btw, in 2018 we lost to Clemson by 28 (just like no. 3 Notre Dame) and by 24 to Ugag (one point more then #9 Florida and #11 Kentucky). TL/DR = we did about as well against these teams as everybody else did.

not worth engaging you on this topic when you’re just using box scores and ignoring the fact we were down 42-7 vs clemson and then 45-7 vs uga. our offense ended up scoring on the opposing teams 3rd string players. at zero point were we ever a serious threat. honestly our offense was down 45-0 vs uga as our only TD came from special teams

you’ve conveniently ignored losing to duke and minnesota who bullied us off the field and neutralized our offense. yes, that season has some highlights but we weren’t that good

 

[GTNavyNuke]

This post by @CuseJacket shows Collins & assistants recruiting strength, even today. https://gtswarm.com/threads/transfer-portal-whos-coming-and-going-2022-roster.24365/post-858548

It's a reason to stick with him since he can get the ones who matter most, the players, to come here.

In baseball, we have a similar situation but the bar is much higher. We get really great recruiting classes (top 25 most years) but average 38 in rpi (of 300 teams since baseball is much more egalitarian). So Hall is really good at getting talent here and while they don't rise to the perceived HS talent ratings, does pretty good in winning games.

But back to the point about Collins (isn't this the Fire Geoff Collins thread?), we are all hoping that we can kludge together coaching and development of players to match the talent level we are now getting. I really just waiting to see how things turn out next year. Besides, there are only about 45 days till baseball starts.

 

[takethepoints]

not worth engaging you on this topic when you’re just using box scores and ignoring the fact we were down 42-7 vs clemson and then 45-7 vs uga. our offense ended up scoring on the opposing teams 3rd string players. at zero point were we ever a serious threat. honestly our offense was down 45-0 vs uga as our only TD came from special teams

you’ve conveniently ignored losing to duke and minnesota who bullied us off the field and neutralized our offense. yes, that season has some highlights but we weren’t that good

1. Just about the same as everyone else against those two teams, iow. And, I might note, the offense wasn't on the field while the those points were being run up. I never said our D was all that special.

2. You're the one that brought up Clemson and Ugag, not me. And yes, both Puke and Minnesota did well. Against our D. We had 50 yards more total O then Duke, they won the game on turnovers. But Minnesota held us in check, they were a very talented outfit. And, yes, by pre-Collins standards and yours we weren't very good. I mean we only won 7 games and ended up second in the Coastal.

 

[bobongo]

i’m not saying that as a criticism i’m just saying this to illustrate the fact that paul was set in his ways for better or worse. the claim he would have just needed to adjust his offense is from someone living in some hypothetical la la land cause it’s quite obvious a guy who didn’t even have a play card was not about to reinvent the wheel and redesign HIS offense.

also i am at a loss for words as to why there’s people that don’t understand what has been repeated 1000 times over: whatever shortcomings collins and his staff have doesn’t automatically mean everything under paul johnson was flawless and perfect. to act like it was always rainbows and butterflies is definitely looking back with rose tinted glasses.

i should probably stop commenting on this before i get a reputation as a paul johnson hater or a collins truther when that’s not the case at all. i think both have done good and bad (with paul obviously being better) but neither is immune from criticism.

Well, I agree Paul did have a stubborn side. I had some criticism of him myself along those lines when he was here. Good to know you're not one of those Paul haters. He did a lot of things right when he was here, a lot more right than wrong in my opinion.

 

[JacketFan137]

1. Just about the same as everyone else against those two teams, iow. And, I might note, the offense wasn't on the field while the those points were being run up. I never said our D was all that special.

2. You're the one that brought up Clemson and Ugag, not me. And yes, both Puke and Minnesota did well. Against our D. We had 50 yards more total O then Duke, they won the game on turnovers. But Minnesota held us in check, they were a very talented outfit. And, yes, by pre-Collins standards and yours we weren't very good. I mean we only won 7 games and ended up second in the Coastal.

i think we just have to stop talking about this. there’s really no point. we weren’t very good at the end of johnson’s tenure. we are bad now. paul is absolutely never coming back and no amount of complaining or reimagining reality will do anything to change that. i will always love those paul teams and i vehemently defended the flexbone for years. the last year it was just clear he wasn’t the football coach to get us over the hump any longer and our team just didn’t seem to have IT anymore.

i will continue to be hopeful for this new regime and not just say “REMEMBER WHEN PAUL…” for literally every criticism when a lot of things can be said about paul as well

 

[cthenrys]

Oh well, since you insist:



Oh, and the reason I didn't post those losses is that, if you recall, in 2018 Clemson was the undefeated national champion and Ugag went 11 - 3. Or, to put it another way, 99% of all football teams in the country would have lost to those teams. By that reasoning the only way that P5 football got past Paul was because he couldn't defeat the national champion (and neither could anyone else) or the no.8 team in the country that lost to only LSU, Bama, and Texas. And, btw, in 2018 we lost to Clemson by 28 (just like no. 3 Notre Dame) and by 24 to Ugag (one point more then #9 Florida and #11 Kentucky). TL/DR = we did about as well against these teams as everybody else did.

Sigh, I remember when GT Football was fun. That one game wasn't a great performance but was better than any CGC game except maybe the UNC game.

Not a ton of 3O football in those highlights either. IIWII.

 

[takethepoints]

i think we just have to stop talking about this. there’s really no point. we weren’t very good at the end of johnson’s tenure. we are bad now. paul is absolutely never coming back and no amount of complaining or reimagining reality will do anything to change that. i will always love those paul teams and i vehemently defended the flexbone for years. the last year it was just clear he wasn’t the football coach to get us over the hump any longer and our team just didn’t seem to have IT anymore.

i will continue to be hopeful for this new regime and not just say “REMEMBER WHEN PAUL…” for literally every criticism when a lot of things can be said about paul as well

Again, you're the one who started this by making patently rediculous claims about Paul being passed by (whatever that means) by P5 football. I never said I wanted Paul back - though now I'd take him in a New York minute - and I don't think he wants to give up his leisure time. All the present staff has to do to get people to quit remembering Paul is to, you know, win.

But you're right; we're talking by one another.

 

[JacketFan137]

Well, I agree Paul did have a stubborn side. I had some criticism of him myself along those lines when he was here. Good to know you're not one of those Paul haters. He did a lot of things right when he was here, a lot more right than wrong in my opinion.

the 2008, 2009, 2014 and 2016 years were some of my favorite ever as a sports fan of any team. i will always have a soft spot for those teams and i still have watched the highlights for the orange bowl in 2014 like 10000 times lol

i just feel like it was rougher at the end than many want to admit. i also think that there were some things paul could have done a little differently that really hurt his chances. college football requires a little bit of a cheerleader coach at times to suck up to boosters and i don’t think paul was ever that guy. it sucks but telling it like it is doesn’t exactly inspire the money to move. i also wished he would have made some adjustments to the scheme to make it a little bit more balanced and incorporate some more stuff like we saw from oregon, oklahoma with kyler, the ravens with lamar etc. just SOMETHING to make it so physical defenses didn’t just have everything shut down so easily

and like i’ve said the state of tech football is truly sad when we’re reminiscing about a team that was as meh as we were 3/4 of paul’s last years

 

[Northeast Stinger]

i think we just have to stop talking about this. there’s really no point. we weren’t very good at the end of johnson’s tenure. we are bad now. paul is absolutely never coming back and no amount of complaining or reimagining reality will do anything to change that. i will always love those paul teams and i vehemently defended the flexbone for years. the last year it was just clear he wasn’t the football coach to get us over the hump any longer and our team just didn’t seem to have IT anymore.

i will continue to be hopeful for this new regime and not just say “REMEMBER WHEN PAUL…” for literally every criticism when a lot of things can be said about paul as well

Yeah, you see, I don’t disagree with much of what you say, and I don’t think others do either, but the way you describe Paul’s last season isn’t fair. I don’t know what his seasons would have been like after that year and neither do you. I suspect if he were here last season he could have won the Coastal given how disciplined his teams were and how chaotic the rest of the Conference was. But it’s a moot point.

So do me a favor and quit repeating the narrative that he was washed up and his system would no longer work. That’s your opinion but it is not a fact. There were some devastating injuries both to the team and to some star recruits that impacted the program. But he has turned seasons around before and he probably would have done it again.

Now I am as ready as anyone to turn the page and see if we can get Tech back on a winning track. I just don’t think you have to make up the narrative that the last coach was some kind of disaster his last year. He wasn’t.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

i’m not saying that as a criticism i’m just saying this to illustrate the fact that paul was set in his ways for better or worse. the claim he would have just needed to adjust his offense is from someone living in some hypothetical la la land cause it’s quite obvious a guy who didn’t even have a play card was not about to reinvent the wheel and redesign HIS offense.

also i am at a loss for words as to why there’s people that don’t understand what has been repeated 1000 times over: whatever shortcomings collins and his staff have doesn’t automatically mean everything under paul johnson was flawless and perfect. to act like it was always rainbows and butterflies is definitely looking back with rose tinted glasses.

i should probably stop commenting on this before i get a reputation as a paul johnson hater or a collins truther when that’s not the case at all. i think both have done good and bad (with paul obviously being better) but neither is immune from criticism.

Did it ever occur to you that an accomplished coach with multiple conference championships and a legacy of success at a college football backwater like Navy just might know a little more about running a football team than critics give him credit for? Coach Collins has, by way of contrast, done little more than picked the pockets of a gullible athletic director with a sales pitch based on smoke and mirrors and hype usually relegated to environs inhabited by used car salesmen. He has one more year to jettison the 404 gibberish and show he can coach. He best get to it. It will be toe meets leather time before you know it.

 

[JacketFan137]

Did it ever occur to you that an accomplished coach with multiple conference championships and a legacy of success at a college football backwater like Navy just might know a little more about running a football team than critics give him credit for? Coach Collins has, by way of contrast, done little more than picked the pockets of a gullible athletic director with a sales pitch based on smoke and mirrors and hype usually relegated to environs inhabited by used car salesmen. He has one more year to jettison the 404 gibberish and show he can coach. He best get to it. It will be toe meets leather time before you know it.

yeah i hope he does. it’s in most of our best interests to prove he was worth a damn and he hasn’t done that yet.

i have no problem admitting paul was a better coach. not really what i’ve been trying to argue against. i just think there’s a little too much “we should have never let go of paul” to go along with the “collins sucks” talk and it’s just dishonest and in a way unfair to collins because those people probably would have never been happy

i think the team has some talent i just hope the coaches show up and do their jobs and these conversations will die. or we just move on to a new coach altogether

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

yeah i hope he does. it’s in most of our best interests to prove he was worth a damn and he hasn’t done that yet.

i have no problem admitting paul was a better coach. not really what i’ve been trying to argue against. i just think there’s a little too much “we should have never let go of paul” to go along with the “collins sucks” talk and it’s just dishonest and in a way unfair to collins because those people probably would have never been happy

i think the team has some talent i just hope the coaches show up and do their jobs and these conversations will die. or we just move on to a new coach altogether

Agree. It was time. Coach Johnson was gracious enough to leave on his own terms. Better to do it that way, with class than to hang around too long as happened with Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes, and Bobby Bowden among others. I pray that Coach Collins gets this bus turned around this year. The alternative would be prohibitively expensive and may result in a "lost decade" such as experienced by both Tennessee and Nebraska. They can afford multiple bad coaches...we simply cannot.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

johnson's offense was great at handling bad teams. we looked absolutely lost whenever we got matched up against a good team or a physical team like clemson, uga and others

And the last three years?