Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[Eli]

I've tried to play nice with you for a while, but since you insist.

Looking at 2018 rankings followed by 2021 win-loss record. These are from 247. I did 2018 since it's the magic number you claim takes a program's recruits to be considered ready for competition.

If you look at the list below, it is very striking how similar the win loss records are from schools with recruiting rankings between 15-52 (as far as I cared to go). Surprisingly more double digit win teams outside of the 15-25 range which goes completely against your point below.



Case in point, you are undeniably wrong and after top 15 recruiting rankings, it is certainly a crap shoot as I tried to tell you earlier.

16. Washington 4-8
17. Texas A&M 8-4
18. South Carolina 7-6
19. UCLA 8-4
20. North Carolina 6-7
21. Tennessee 7-6
22. Michigan 12-2
23. Nebraska 3-9
24. Virginia Tech 6-7
25. TCU 5-7



26. NC State 9-3
27. Mississippi State 7-6
28. Maryland 7-6
29. Baylor 11-2
30. Louisville 6-7
31. Michigan State 11-2
32. Ole Miss 10-2
33. Utah 10-3
34. Oklahoma State 11-2
35. West Virginia 6-7
36. Arizona State 8-5
37. Kentucky 9-3
38. Minnesota 9-4
39. Iowa 10-3


40. Stanford 3-9
41. Vanderbilt 2-10
42. California 5-7
43. Missouri 6-7
44. Georgia Tech ughhhh 3-9
45. Arkansas 8-4
46. Wisconsin 9-4
47. Washington State 7-6
48. Pittsburgh 11-3
49. Cincinnati 13-1
50. Indiana 2-10
51. Syracuse 5-7
52. Purdue 9-4

I hope this opens some people's eyes as to how unimportant and unimpressive a top 25 class really is, if you're not in the 1-15 range.

But you'll probably still tag this as some narrative I have.

Winner winner chicken dinner

 

[Eli]

I've tried to play nice with you for a while, but since you insist.

Looking at 2018 rankings followed by 2021 win-loss record. These are from 247. I did 2018 since it's the magic number you claim takes a program's recruits to be considered ready for competition.

If you look at the list below, it is very striking how similar the win loss records are from schools with recruiting rankings between 15-52 (as far as I cared to go). Surprisingly more double digit win teams outside of the 15-25 range which goes completely against your point below.



Case in point, you are undeniably wrong and after top 15 recruiting rankings, it is certainly a crap shoot as I tried to tell you earlier.

16. Washington 4-8
17. Texas A&M 8-4
18. South Carolina 7-6
19. UCLA 8-4
20. North Carolina 6-7
21. Tennessee 7-6
22. Michigan 12-2
23. Nebraska 3-9
24. Virginia Tech 6-7
25. TCU 5-7



26. NC State 9-3
27. Mississippi State 7-6
28. Maryland 7-6
29. Baylor 11-2
30. Louisville 6-7
31. Michigan State 11-2
32. Ole Miss 10-2
33. Utah 10-3
34. Oklahoma State 11-2
35. West Virginia 6-7
36. Arizona State 8-5
37. Kentucky 9-3
38. Minnesota 9-4
39. Iowa 10-3


40. Stanford 3-9
41. Vanderbilt 2-10
42. California 5-7
43. Missouri 6-7
44. Georgia Tech ughhhh 3-9
45. Arkansas 8-4
46. Wisconsin 9-4
47. Washington State 7-6
48. Pittsburgh 11-3
49. Cincinnati 13-1
50. Indiana 2-10
51. Syracuse 5-7
52. Purdue 9-4

I hope this opens some people's eyes as to how unimportant and unimpressive a top 25 class really is, if you're not in the 1-15 range.

But you'll probably still tag this as some narrative I have.

My personal belief is if you have a system based offense or unique style defense and can remain in the 25-40 range keep the kids on the roster for 4-5 years you will have a dynamite year every 4-5 years.

 

[jacketup]

I also fail to follow what you want. You hated Johnson because he couldn’t get “talent” but praise Gailey for having *** loads of talent yet they have the same winning percentage. So are you saying Gailey is a below average coach and Paul is a God?

A complete mischaracterization, probably due to ignorance of the situations, of each coach. Gailey didn't recruit that well at first, having come from the NFL. However, the 2007 class is widely recognized as Tech's best ever. Johnson got the benefit of it; Gailey never did. If you take away Johnson's first two years where he had the full benefit of that class (some went to the NFL after 2009) Gailey actually had a better FBS record than Johnson did. Gailey also went to a bowl game every year; Johnson did not.

My opinion is that we can do better than either one of them did. First, we have to get talent in here. Collins is doing that. Second, we need better assistants. Our money guys are willing apparently to come up with the money to fire Collins, but aren't willing to come up with the money to hire a quality DC and other assistants. Go figure. Ever since Homer retired, this program has been a rudderless ship. I feel sorry for Stansbury who is supposed to have a competitive program without competitive money. You would have to love Tech to be the AD or the HC, because the fans and supporters sure make it hard to succeed.

 

[Pointer]

A complete mischaracterization, probably due to ignorance of the situations, of each coach. Gailey didn't recruit that well at first, having come from the NFL. However, the 2007 class is widely recognized as Tech's best ever. Johnson got the benefit of it; Gailey never did. If you take away Johnson's first two years where he had the full benefit of that class (some went to the NFL after 2009) Gailey actually had a better FBS record than Johnson did. Gailey also went to a bowl game every year; Johnson did not.

My opinion is that we can do better than either one of them did. First, we have to get talent in here. Collins is doing that. Second, we need better assistants. Our money guys are willing apparently to come up with the money to fire Collins, but aren't willing to come up with the money to hire a quality DC and other assistants. Go figure. Ever since Homer retired, this program has been a rudderless ship. I feel sorry for Stansbury who is supposed to have a competitive program without competitive money. You would have to love Tech to be the AD or the HC, because the fans and supporters sure make it hard to succeed.

To summarize:
If you keep 2 of the worst year's record for a coach, BUT take away 2 of his best, suddenly he doesn't look so good as a coach.

Wow what an amazing point you made there.
You would make a fabulous statistionist.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Actually the 2008 team had Nesbitt, Dwyer, Jones, Thomas, Gardner, Morgan, Johnson, Richards, Walker, Burnett, and many other great players. I actually believe I could have gone 11-2 with that team.

The question is, why the hell did we let Gailey go?

Because he got nothing out of his players compared to their potential. At least Johnson, baring injury, usually got a player’s full potential.

 

[jacketup]

My personal belief is if you have a system based offense or unique style defense and can remain in the 25-40 range keep the kids on the roster for 4-5 years you will have a dynamite year every 4-5 years.

O'Leary/Friedgen had 5 consecutive AP top 25 finishes and 3 consecutive wins over uga. What unique system did they have? Johnson and his unique system produced a .500 FBS record over a 9 year period. He didn't have 5 top 25 finishes in his 11 years, and it took him 11 years to beat uga 3 times. Johnson won when he had talent (2008, 2009, 2014--when he got lucky to have Mason and JT on the same team) and was mediocre or worse when he didn't. Talent trumps scheme. Johnson's record proves it. Yet, people want to fire Collins before he gets talent in here.

 

[jacketup]

To summarize:
If you keep 2 of the worst year's record for a coach, BUT take away 2 of his best, suddenly he doesn't look so good as a coach.

Wow what an amazing point you made there.
You would make a fabulous statistionist.

Another complete mischaracterization. That is not at all what I said. His .500 FBS record includes his best year--2014. Did I take it out? He won when had talent and was mediocre or worse when he didn't. His record clearly shows that. He inherited a very talented team in 2008 and left behind for 2019 a bunch of midget OL, RBs playing QB, and little talent on D--even the Johnson fan boys can't argue that we had talented defenses after 2009.

You are the one twisting the facts--and my post.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I didn't see them because they don't exist. You can't see what's not there. I still hold you're a victim of the Mandela Effect on this.

Sure. You’re right. Nobody ever blamed CPJ for a long transition time. My mistake.

 

[Pointer]

Another complete mischaracterization. That is not at all what I said. His .500 FBS record includes his best year--2014. Did I take it out? He won when had talent and was mediocre or worse when he didn't. His record clearly shows that. He inherited a very talented team in 2008 and left behind for 2019 a bunch of midget OL, RBs playing QB, and little talent on D--even the Johnson fan boys can't argue that we had talented defenses after 2009.

You are the one twisting the facts--and my post.

You don't consider 08 and 09 good years? Especially for GT.

lol you're just upset because you realized what your original post sounds like when you look at it rationally.

 

[Eli]

O'Leary/Friedgen had 5 consecutive AP top 25 finishes and 3 consecutive wins over uga. What unique system did they have? Johnson and his unique system produced a .500 FBS record over a 9 year period. He didn't have 5 top 25 finishes in his 11 years, and it took him 11 years to beat uga 3 times. Johnson won when he had talent (2008, 2009, 2014--when he got lucky to have Mason and JT on the same team) and was mediocre or worse when he didn't. Talent trumps scheme. Johnson's record proves it. Yet, people want to fire Collins before he gets talent in here.

Ralph Fridgen was the highest paid assistant in college football. Ralph ran a unique offense. I don’t think I’ve ever read a valid point from you.

 

[iceeater1969]

A complete mischaracterization, probably due to ignorance of the situations, of each coach. Gailey didn't recruit that well at first, having come from the NFL. However, the 2007 class is widely recognized as Tech's best ever. Johnson got the benefit of it; Gailey never did. If you take away Johnson's first two years where he had the full benefit of that class (some went to the NFL after 2009) Gailey actually had a better FBS record than Johnson did. Gailey also went to a bowl game every year; Johnson did not.

My opinion is that we can do better than either one of them did. First, we have to get talent in here. Collins is doing that. Second, we need better assistants. Our money guys are willing apparently to come up with the money to fire Collins, but aren't willing to come up with the money to hire a quality DC and other assistants. Go figure. Ever since Homer retired, this program has been a rudderless ship. I feel sorry for Stansbury who is supposed to have a competitive program without competitive money. You would have to love Tech to be the AD or the HC, because the fans and supporters sure make it hard to succeed.

Great post at end.
START THERE

To win at gt u need to be the Athletic Director that the MOST OUTSTANDING ATHLETIC DIRECTOR AWARD is named after.

Do the Alumni deserve an AD like that?

Now to the top of post.
Consider reversing cpj s record from very fast start to choppy w a few very highs and then some lows. Further consider the even worse money and AD and Prez that cpj had .
Consider that and a reversed record , Cpj would be a gt legend.

AFTER FAST START THEN SLOWDOWN - WHY NOT THROW MONEY AT HOW DO WE STAY GREAT??
Did anyone ask for us to give more money.

With recruiting money for spencer and staff money, he would likely still be here .

 

[wrmathis]

O'Leary/Friedgen had 5 consecutive AP top 25 finishes and 3 consecutive wins over uga. What unique system did they have? Johnson and his unique system produced a .500 FBS record over a 9 year period. He didn't have 5 top 25 finishes in his 11 years, and it took him 11 years to beat uga 3 times. Johnson won when he had talent (2008, 2009, 2014--when he got lucky to have Mason and JT on the same team) and was mediocre or worse when he didn't. Talent trumps scheme. Johnson's record proves it. Yet, people want to fire Collins before he gets talent in here.

O’Leary’s 5 consecutive top 25 finishes is kinda bs. 2 of those seasons he finished 7-5 (2001 team did finish 8-5 but O’Leary didn’t coach the bowl game so he only went 7-5). No way a 7-5 team will ever be ranked again or should have ever finished ranked. Second if u don’t think friedgen had a unique system, I dont know what to tell u.

CPJ finished 9-4 and unranked. That’s horse****.

 

[JacketFan137]

will never understand the constant effort to act like recruiting doesn’t matter by someone people on this board. it’s not the only thing but it’s a large percentage of what makes a successful program.

 

[Pointer]

will never understand the constant effort to act like recruiting doesn’t matter by someone people on this board. it’s not the only thing but it’s a large percentage of what makes a successful program.

It's important, if you're in the top 15.

That's the whole point. Hope that helps

 

[JacketFan137]

It's important, if you're in the top 15.

That's the whole point. Hope that helps

not really true at all. getting talent in is always beneficial and really sets you up for sustained success. if johnson cared or tried to recruit he’d still be here

 

[Pointer]

not really true at all. getting talent in is always beneficial and really sets you up for sustained success. if johnson cared or tried to recruit he’d still be here

I tried to help you lol.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

My personal belief is if you have a system based offense or unique style defense and can remain in the 25-40 range keep the kids on the roster for 4-5 years you will have a dynamite year every 4-5 years.

I think that is right. Friedgen’s multiple option offense with a mobile quarterback (when most teams were pocket passers) threw wrinkles at teams they were not used to. Watching Jones run wild on Nebraska in passing situations set up every other play and won us a national championship.

The data certainly seems to prove that recruiting rankings (unless you’re a top 10 class) have virtually nothing to do with a winning record. Coaching is the deciding factor for most mortal teams.

Gailey was brought to Tech for 3 reasons. He had good relationships with high school coaches across the state, his pro credentials meant he would attract players with NFL aspirations, and he was a top notch recruiter. All those are good things but if you lack offensive imagination and don’t get the most out of your talent the results will be below expectation.

 

[MWBATL]

Yep. Good times. He also ended a 2 decade long bowl streak and the end of his tenure and into the next we have now missed bowls in 5 of 6 years and haven’t been ranked in 6 years. That is also part of his resume.

My only disagreement with your statement is placing blame for these 3 lousy years on CPJ. Those results are squarely and solely on Collins’ resume.

 

[JacketFan137]

I tried to help you lol.

i just don’t know what you’re trying to say lol

your argument is absolutely ridiculous. maybe we just shouldn’t recruit since clearly it doesn’t matter. ignore the fact that those recruiting rankings don’t take into account transfers and potential walk ons.

the reality is recruiting is one of the biggest differentiators between the top and bottom of college football.

i would also add that your record argument was hilariously stupid because you’re ignoring multiple other years of recruiting by those same teams

obviously collins needs to coach better. no one can argue that, but he is a great recruiter and that recruiting combined with some decent coordinators could be big for tech

 

[JacketFan137]

My only disagreement with your statement is placing blame for these 3 lousy years on CPJ. Those results are squarely and solely on Collins’ resume.

it’s not even necessarily blame on CPJ. we didn’t have the roster to compete in the acc. this was obvious WITH cpj as coach lol