Louisville Postgame

[stinger78]

It’s not unreasonable for a HC to want to run for a 1st down on 4th and 1. CPJ did it all the time; CCG never considered going on 4th down. CBK wants to run the ball. Nothing wring with that. I’m wondering why CBF does this from a shotgun. Maybe it’s his air raid background. Maybe it’s Key demanding he run and CBF wants options. It is obvious the OL cannot block that play. Throw the ball!

Think about what Dook now has to think about had CBF thrown the ball - make it or not. Dook now has to pull men off the LOS to cover WRs. I just cannot fathom why we do what we do.

 

[alagold]

On one hand, the defense gave up 17 points.

On the other hand, Louisville lost two offensive possessions from the fumble recovery touchdown and from the blocked kick. Maybe their offense scores 23 or more, if not for that.

Also, (from ESPN)

Passing	C/ATT	YDS	AVG	TD	INT		QBR
Tyler Shough#9	13/19	269	14.2	2	0		80.2
Team	13/19	269	14.2	2	0

	REC	YDS	AVG	TD	LONG
Ja'Corey Brooks#1	4	125	31.3	1	57
Chris Bell#0	2	82	41.0	1	45
Jamari Johnson#11	2	20	10.0	0	11
Donald Chaney#21	1	17	17.0	0	17
Mark Redman#83	1	12	12.0	0	12
Ahmari Huggins-Bruce#24	1	8	8.0	0	8
Isaac Brown#25	1	3	3.0	0	3
Jadon Thompson#2	1	2	2.0	0	2
TEAM	13	269	20.7	2	57

No sacks, no interceptions, 3 tackles for loss. One really good tackle for loss (safety).

THEY AVERAGED 20.7 YARDS PER PASS COMPLETION! Thankfully, they only completed 68% of their passes, so it was just 14.2 overall.

We are one of the worst pass defenses in FBS, statistically. Probably for real. We're good against the run, but any sensible coach will pass until we stop them.

Of course we are good vs the run because we hunker down which slows runs but then not in a position to to rush the passer nor get TFL.

 

[yeti92]

Not sure how you give the OL a C when every one of them graded either below average or well below average. By the way, the PFF grade for Brown matches the film. Anyone else see the play where he face plants himself in front of a defender who then goes untouched to make the tackle. How he remained in the game and continue to hurt our offense is another example of poor coaching on Saturday.

I also disagree with giving our DBs an F. Some players deserved poor grades, but the overall grade was not that bad. They were hurt by a complete lack of a pass rush.

I appreciate the criticisms of the individual position group grades and don't think they are unreasonable.

To be clear, I'm not grading based on PFF scores - I've said before I think they should be taken with a grain of salt and I rarely agree with all of their scores. I'm also not sure how they formulate their scores - for example, Jamal Haynes scored higher than Singleton, which I don't agree with at all. My understanding of PFF grades is that a score in the 60s is average - Franklin was a 62.4 which would be average, and Harrison Moore was a 59.0, so just a hair below average though he only played 3 snaps. Agreed on Brown, and I pointed him out in an earlier comment. We need somebody else over there. Overall though, the line blocked well enough that King was able to pass effectively for the most part, but the run blocking was pretty bad - if you were to split their grades for each, I'd give them a B for pass blocking and a D for run blocking, resulting in an average of C.

For the DBs, again I understand some of them played decently well, but as a unit they got worked, and unfortunately that isn't a unit where 1 or 2 guys can play well while the rest don't. As previously stated, they gave up huge yardage at a high completion percentage, they were routinely unaware of where the ball was, and they got penalized multiple times. It doesn't matter if one WR gets covered up if 2 or 3 others are constantly running free.

Lack of pass rush does make the DBs have to cover longer, but it goes both ways - if the DBs can't cover more than 1 or 2 seconds, it's hard for the pass rush to ever get there because there is always an open target for the QB to hit quickly. Shough wasn't standing back there for 6-8 seconds every play waiting for a receiver to get open, he had a lot of targets open almost immediately.

 

[slugboy]

This speaks to a shortcoming of giving individual position grades.
Few DBs can cover when the QB has all day. Also, without looking at the all-22, sometimes it can be hard to tell whether or not a DB (or LB) was truly out of position to make the play due to bad technique and/or decisions, or due to a bad defensive play call.
Same issue on offense. How many of our failures in our run game were on the RBs vs the OL? Sometimes it’s both. How many incomplete passes were due to bad throws, or WR running the route poorly?
Are all these factors included in the position grades?

PFF uses all 22 views. They may be wrong on the responsibilities, though.

We are not getting an amazing pass rush, but I'm not seeing the QB having a massive amount of time before throwing. We’re getting some pressure. There is about a 5 count before he has to scramble, but he’s having to scramble. Tyler Shough is almost always taking his first read and passing to his primary receiver. He doesn’t even have to go through progressions—He’s going back and throwing.

The “pass interference play” at the end of the 3rd is awful—Amari Harvey is beaten badly, never looks, interferes, stops covering after he knows the flag is coming, and gives up a TD.

Most of the Louisville hot receivers have their DB beaten from the snap. The GT defensive linemen would need to go nearly unblocked to stop some of the passes.

I’m not saying the front 6 had a great game—they didn’t. There were tons of missed tackles. But key members of the secondary had terrible games and lost their matchups—either in zone or man-to-man. Efford isn’t great in man-to-man coverage, but he’s a reliable tackler.

On the offensive side, King has a great quick release, and he needed it—our line was POROUS. He was getting the ball out in 2 or 3 seconds. We have some talented receivers. King can still be late on his throws. I think he has plenty of arm strength, but he lofts some deep throws and throws them late—if he throws them earlier, they’re walk-in TDs. Jamal Haynes overcame or dodged tackles in the backfield to get yards.

Our plays looked really interesting in retrospect—but we had multiple blockers missing assignments. Not one—MULTIPLE. The GT offensive line had a terrible day. On some plays, I was seeing runners dodging multiple tacklers to get to the line of scrimmage—and on some plays, the third tackler got them in the backfield.

 

[roadkill]

Overall though, the line blocked well enough that King was able to pass effectively for the most part

On the offensive side, King has a great quick release, and he needed it—our line was POROUS.

The GT offensive line had a terrible day.

Guys, you need to get it together. I rely on you both for timely and accurate assessments of our team's performance. How am I supposed to decide if our OL did ok or not?

 

[TampaBuzz]

Thanks for the review.
I wonder if we are slow to recognize the situational changes and i am concerned about who gets the ball in key situations.
In louisville the fg block scoop score was a big change with 7 plus minutes to go. Suddenly, we have to get 2 tds and stop them from scoring or burning clock. THE CLOCK IS OUR ENEMY.

Sure we came out w well scripted 2 minute offense with 100% passing drive. We several short outs routes and one seam route to tight end. In a minute and 45 we are at the 30. Quick snap and another 7 yd gain to 24 on a flat pass and we have 5 minutes to go. The clock is really our enemy.
I am thinking we take a shot at endzone to score. If incomplete we rush in bring taller wr or an ex wr haynes or boyd take shots. Worst case we have king run.

WHY At this point in the game does Key allow the ball to be taken out the QB whom he has said is" the best qb in the conference".

2 dive plays get 3 yds.

The time out was called by UL.

Everyone on both sides bunch in for the titanic struggle - our ol verses there dl. Stupid me i thinking King to Singleton in back of endzone on crossing route. Hey, i thought we wanted to win. But no, the situation is really a chest bumping time. UL coach knew he would run and he and his players stuffed Key and his players.


But the real situation is Key didn't trust King and Singleton in a desperate situation in which they could have greatly improved thier national recognition. Both walked off looking dejected.

Key + King will bounce back and if we open up offense the ol will get going.

But it will take a while for me to trust Key in unscripted situations.

Yeah....that sequence of calling 3 runs up the middle at that point in the game had me yelling at the tv. Made absolutely no sense. I can't imagine what Faulkner and Key were thinking with less than 5 minutes remaining.

 

[Spalding Jacket]

In passing situations I’d like to see us majority of the time rush 3 and spy Efford leaving back 7 in zone coverage. I think that’s our best hope going forward with our current weaknesses. I am concerned though that L’ville ran a vanilla offensive gameplan and saved rest of playbook for Notre Dame unless they got down late in game against us. Funny both teams were willing to run into brick walls most of game, but unfortunately we coughed up the ball twice. I think Faulkner hopes to surprise defense with runs in pass situations, but so far no one has really fallen for it. Also to note, Last year Brown started 1st game last year against L’ville and was pulled early for MacKenny and then our offense exploded. Feel like MacKenny must be injured for him play to not play so far this year.

 

[slugboy]

Guys, you need to get it together. I rely on you both for timely and accurate assessments of our team's performance. How am I supposed to decide if our OL did ok or not?

1. LOL
2. I watched the condensed game and counted from the snap. Unless he was scrambling, King threw by the time I counted “3”. Aside from the fumble score, and maybe calling his own number too often in the run, he had a fantastic game. He’s a game changer at QB.
Part of the reason there were no sacks is that he’s mobile and he gets the ball out quickly.
The replay is worth watching. It changed how I thought the game went.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

PFF uses all 22 views. They may be wrong on the responsibilities, though.

We are not getting an amazing pass rush, but I'm not seeing the QB having a massive amount of time before throwing. We’re getting some pressure. There is about a 5 count before he has to scramble, but he’s having to scramble. Tyler Shough is almost always taking his first read and passing to his primary receiver. He doesn’t even have to go through progressions—He’s going back and throwing.

The “pass interference play” at the end of the 3rd is awful—Amari Harvey is beaten badly, never looks, interferes, stops covering after he knows the flag is coming, and gives up a TD.

Most of the Louisville hot receivers have their DB beaten from the snap. The GT defensive linemen would need to go nearly unblocked to stop some of the passes.

I’m not saying the front 6 had a great game—they didn’t. There were tons of missed tackles. But key members of the secondary had terrible games and lost their matchups—either in zone or man-to-man. Efford isn’t great in man-to-man coverage, but he’s a reliable tackler.

On the offensive side, King has a great quick release, and he needed it—our line was POROUS. He was getting the ball out in 2 or 3 seconds. We have some talented receivers. King can still be late on his throws. I think he has plenty of arm strength, but he lofts some deep throws and throws them late—if he throws them earlier, they’re walk-in TDs. Jamal Haynes overcame or dodged tackles in the backfield to get yards.

Our plays looked really interesting in retrospect—but we had multiple blockers missing assignments. Not one—MULTIPLE. The GT offensive line had a terrible day. On some plays, I was seeing runners dodging multiple tacklers to get to the line of scrimmage—and on some plays, the third tackler got them in the backfield.

A five count is an eternity for a QB. Anything more than three is poor for a pass rush.

 

[slugboy]

A five count is an eternity for a QB. Anything more than three is poor for a pass rush.

Here’s the Iowa vs Minnesota condensed game. We were getting about the same pass rush as those two teams



Maybe I count quickly. Louisville did not have all day. Their receivers were open from the beginning.

Our pass rush could be better, but our secondary was getting beaten, and getting beaten quickly. That’s clear from watching the replay.

 

[roadkill]

1. LOL
2. I watched the condensed game and counted from the snap. Unless he was scrambling, King threw by the time I counted “3”. Aside from the fumble score, and maybe calling his own number too often in the run, he had a fantastic game. He’s a game changer at QB.
Part of the reason there were no sacks is that he’s mobile and he gets the ball out quickly.
The replay is worth watching. It changed how I thought the game went.

I may watch the condensed game based on your comments, even though I struggle to rewatch losses.

I watched the one for Louisville's previous game to gauge how good Shough was. The problem I had watching a condensed game for indications of a team or player's strengths and weaknesses is that it only shows successful offensive plays (unless there is a turnover), and even then seems to skip some successful plays.

If a QB is under pressure and has to throw the ball away or make an inaccurate throw, it's usually left out of the condensed game. So, our OL pass blocking could be worse than you observed from counting from the snap, if that is even possible.

 

[RonJohn]

Here’s the Iowa vs Minnesota condensed game. We were getting about the same pass rush as those two teams



Maybe I count quickly. Louisville did not have all day. Their receivers were open from the beginning.

Our pass rush could be better, but our secondary was getting beaten, and getting beaten quickly. That’s clear from watching the replay.

And even with all of the concern that people are expressing about the defense, they only gave up 326 yards in the entire game. With the way people are talking, I would think they gave up 600 in the air and 300 on the ground.

 

[stinger78]

And even with all of the concern that people are expressing about the defense, they only gave up 326 yards in the entire game. With the way people are talking, I would think they gave up 600 in the air and 300 on the ground.

That’s with 2 missed possessions. They were at about 2.5 PPD, which translates to 25+ points in a game with 10 possessions. They did not play badly, but it was not a glorious day for them.

 

[RamblinCharger]

After chilling out from my angry drunken stupor Saturday, and rewatching most of the game, I think the difference in the game was the FG to tie it up in the 3rd. We moved the ball well on that drive, had 4th and inches. We've got to be able to spread them out enough to get the box from being 8 full and then run the ball for a yard. We score there and go up 21-17 it might be a different game. Taking the lead there would have been huge for momentum. The main issue in this game like others have mentioned was the OL play. Many times 77 (Rutledge LG) and the LT whiffed on blocks, some stunts, some linebackers shooting gaps, and some were just whiffs it seemed. That caused the turnover on the option play, although King probably should've eaten it, and it caused the missed short yardage situations. Need to clean it up and hope we can improve up front on both sides of the LOS.

 

[RonJohn]

That’s with 2 missed possessions. They were at about 2.5 PPD, which translates to 25+ points in a game with 10 possessions. They did not play badly, but it was not a glorious day for them.

I understood from this thread that the DL cannot get any pressure on the QB, that the DBs let the receivers run freely to catch balls anywhere/anytime they want, and that the LBs can't stop the run and can't cover anyone. From reading this thread, the defense played so horribly that we should have lost by 100.

I'm glad you admit that the defense didn't play badly.

Also from reading this thread, I understand that the offense can't gain 1 yard running, and that the QB and receivers are horrible. The thing I can't figure out is if the offense is so horrible they can't gain a single first down, and the defense is so horrible that they just give the QB 10 seconds to throw TD bombs to receivers, how the possessions were limited. It must be that the offense played well also. And if I look at the stats, the GT offense did gain more yards than the Louisville offense. GT had more TOP.

I don't remember people in this thread talking about it being obvious that Haynes has some kind of injury. He has not been cutting like his usual self. Alexander nor Carrie played in the Louisville game. Maddox played well, but only had 8 carries. Maybe the fact that we only got triple the rushing yards that Louisville got has something to do with 3 RBs being out due to injury and the starting RB being only 70% or so. How many rushing yards would we have gotten if Haynes was able to cut into the holes the way he usually does and Alexander came in to back him up?

It appears that either our offense played better than theirs, or our defense played better than theirs, or both. This thread, and several others, is/are full of wild overreaction. Louisville appears to be a very good team. People are frustrated that we were a couple of plays away from beating a very good team. That is understandable. However, it is time for the team to clean up mistakes and work on things. It isn't time to fire Santucci, fire Faulkner, nor fire Key. It isn't time to bench the entire team and put in all second stringers. It is time for the team to use the bye week to work on things and to heal.

 

[stinger78]

I understood from this thread that the DL cannot get any pressure on the QB, that the DBs let the receivers run freely to catch balls anywhere/anytime they want, and that the LBs can't stop the run and can't cover anyone. From reading this thread, the defense played so horribly that we should have lost by 100.

I'm glad you admit that the defense didn't play badly.

Also from reading this thread, I understand that the offense can't gain 1 yard running, and that the QB and receivers are horrible. The thing I can't figure out is if the offense is so horrible they can't gain a single first down, and the defense is so horrible that they just give the QB 10 seconds to throw TD bombs to receivers, how the possessions were limited. It must be that the offense played well also. And if I look at the stats, the GT offense did gain more yards than the Louisville offense. GT had more TOP.

I don't remember people in this thread talking about it being obvious that Haynes has some kind of injury. He has not been cutting like his usual self. Alexander nor Carrie played in the Louisville game. Maddox played well, but only had 8 carries. Maybe the fact that we only got triple the rushing yards that Louisville got has something to do with 3 RBs being out due to injury and the starting RB being only 70% or so. How many rushing yards would we have gotten if Haynes was able to cut into the holes the way he usually does and Alexander came in to back him up?

It appears that either our offense played better than theirs, or our defense played better than theirs, or both. This thread, and several others, is/are full of wild overreaction. Louisville appears to be a very good team. People are frustrated that we were a couple of plays away from beating a very good team. That is understandable. However, it is time for the team to clean up mistakes and work on things. It isn't time to fire Santucci, fire Faulkner, nor fire Key. It isn't time to bench the entire team and put in all second stringers. It is time for the team to use the bye week to work on things and to heal.

Excuse me? I have maintained along that the D played fairly well on Saturday with a couple of notable exceptions.

If there’s any over reaction here it’s you.

 

[roadkill]

Excuse me? I have maintained along that the D played fairly well on Saturday with a couple of notable exceptions.

If there’s any over reaction here it’s you.

Yeah, I don't understand why @RonJohn's post was directed at you.

That’s with 2 missed possessions. They were at about 2.5 PPD, which translates to 25+ points in a game with 10 possessions. They did not play badly, but it was not a glorious day for them.

A little more precision yields 2.42 ppd for Louisville when their offense was on the field. If we allow that average for the two missed possessions, their final score would have been 17 + 5 = 22. Since that’s an unlikely result, I think 20 or 23 is equally likely.

For recent seasons, the average points scored in an ACC game is 27.7. Louisville is an above-average team, currently ranked 16th in OFEI. That may shift as the season progresses, but holding the 16th-ranked offense to 20-23 points is an indication of above-average performance by our defense.

 

[RonJohn]

Excuse me? I have maintained along that the D played fairly well on Saturday with a couple of notable exceptions.

If there’s any over reaction here it’s you.

I wasn't referring to you. Your first post in the thread, the OP, was that we beat them in the stats but two TOs resulted in the loss. There are plenty of people on this forum claiming that the sky is falling.

 

[slugboy]

I wasn't referring to you. Your first post in the thread, the OP, was that we beat them in the stats but two TOs resulted in the loss. There are plenty of people on this forum claiming that the sky is falling.

I had a more favorable view of the game until I looked at the film and the stats.
They had no 3-and-outs. Louisville averaged 14 yards every time they dropped back. They didn’t do well running the ball, but they didn’t need to. They moved the ball very effectively. Our pass defense was bad, and mostly in the secondary , but the drag routes were also ugly.

 

[Root4GT]

In passing situations I’d like to see us majority of the time rush 3 and spy Efford leaving back 7 in zone coverage. I think that’s our best hope going forward with our current weaknesses. I am concerned though that L’ville ran a vanilla offensive gameplan and saved rest of playbook for Notre Dame unless they got down late in game against us. Funny both teams were willing to run into brick walls most of game, but unfortunately we coughed up the ball twice. I think Faulkner hopes to surprise defense with runs in pass situations, but so far no one has really fallen for it. Also to note, Last year Brown started 1st game last year against L’ville and was pulled early for MacKenny and then our offense exploded. Feel like MacKenny must be injured for him play to not play so far this year.

It was Robinson (#55) who started the first game last season. MacKenny has been beaten out by both Robinson and Briwn at LT.

Robinson seems to have been hurt during the Louisville game. Can anyone confirm that?