Let's keep some perspective here on our NEW HC

[bobongo]

I’m not ignoring anything. I pretty sure 18/22 on two deep defense returned majority of those guys guys been in the system for 3yr to 4yrs.

Uh huh. all but the best ones.

 

[billga99]

I think he needs to be judged on the full season. Clearly Bowling Green was another epic failure. If he can still get GT to 5 or 6 wins, get a good recruiting class (maybe around 30), and not lose best players to the portal I would judge that to be a success. Flip of that is 3 to 4 wins, lose top recruits and top players to portal I would consider that a failure. If the latter, I would expect more coach and player transitions.

 

[g0lftime]

Yup...we did lose to those teams, just as we lost to Bowling Green this year. That's what GT does, lose to teams we shouldn't. My point was Key is capable of pulling rabbits out of a hat...just as he's capable of losing rabbits in a hat.

We'll see how the team responds Saturday. I wouldn't be shocked if we pulled the upset, just like I wouldn't be shocked if we get run over. I think Key's "grace period" with GT fans is definitely over.

Key will likely get 2 years after this one. Next year may be tough to go bowling with a tougher schedule. His seat may get very warm then. Next year this team will be very experienced unless several key players transfer or graduate out. I hope next year is the big one we hope for. I am not that hopeful for the remainder of this year unless Sherrer is a defensive magician.

 

[Ramble1885]

Key will likely get 2 years after this one. Next year may be tough to go bowling with a tougher schedule. His seat may get very warm then. Next year this team will be very experienced unless several key players transfer or graduate out. I hope next year is the big one we hope for. I am not that hopeful for the remainder of this year unless Sherrer is a defensive magician.

Next year keep in mind we may play Stanford, Cal, and SMU all of which are winnable games in my opinion.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Anyone who has worked in consulting or been part of a leadership change knows that these changes take some time, regardless if the new leader was part of the previous team or not. While Key owns the results, there are certainly mitigating factors due the residual cultural and leadership issues from the previous coach. It is Key's job to fix those issues. However, it is impossible for any leader to completely eliminate these issues when so many of the people remain from the previous regime. Holding any leader to that level of scrutiny is myopic and self destructive. Give Key the tools and support he needs to weed out the problem children and give him time to instill a new culture. Then, after a year or two, if there are results like last weekend, we should hold Key accountable.

 

[stech81]

I’m not ignoring anything. I pretty sure 18/22 on two deep defense returned majority of those guys guys been in the system for 3yr to 4yrs.

Key has been a coach of the staff 5yrs. He’s responsible for the portal guys that working out well like King, 4* Pyron and others.

So, you're saying the only players Tech got the last 5 years were the ones Keys want offense or defense players?

Well in that is the case I guess you were happy with them.

• Aug 13, 2023

• Add bookmark
• #174

A few points-

Why folks talk about Pyron as if he’s a 2* walk-on? I’ll put the percentage at 80% that’s hes the starter and with no platooning

- The defense returns 7 starters, i believe 7/8 on the DL and 4 DBs with multiple games starts, yet some expect a significant drop off? That’s crazy

or

• Sep 19, 2023

• Add bookmark
• #50

This is called scheming for the players you have . Our O line is not very good, so we do things that makes their lives easier.

You could say we are doing the same thing on defense by playing unaggressive ball, but in today’s day and age I think that just gets you beat.

The OLine has given up 3 sacks all season, one of which was a olè by Corey Robinson early vs Louisville and avg 203 rush yds/gm.

That doesn’t fall under the “not good” category

• Aug 13, 2023

• Add bookmark
• #183

Anything is possible. Still losing 3 top defenders on a below average defense is concerning. It’s all about how well the DL plays. I have real concerns. Hope I am surprised. We should know a good bit after the first game.

Where you getting this below avg defense from?

Did we stop using FEI over since the option left?

So reading a little of what you said half the second half of last season who would you have picked as DC?

I think any new Head Coach should be given time.

 

[alagold]

I wouldn’t be surprised if halftime adjustments were indeed made, but the players failed to execute them.

Same thing really in results..If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it--did it?

 

[LongforDodd]

I wouldn’t be surprised if halftime adjustments were indeed made, but the players failed to execute them.

Give the D some slack, man. They had to play the second half in all black units in 78-80 degree temps. you should have seen their faces!

 

[JacketFan137]

He leveraged USC into getting a pay raise and being influential in getting PNut fired. No control? Key was the Lieutenant was the reason Long & was hired .


@JacketFan137 seeing the back pedaling is hilarious. All we heard was once the clown is gone and get some grown up’s in the building everything would better. That any coach could have had these past teams in a bowl game. Now it’s we gotta give Key time to get his team? This is his team!

we had people writing off collins immediately after some of the bad losses, inability to finish games and putrid defense and special teams. this year we blew a game we had a fourth quarter lead, we have a loss every bit as bad as citadel, NIU, etc, and we have had multiple catastrophic mistakes on special teams while looking like one of the worst defenses in the conference.

i think key is a better coach than collins but as of right now the only true difference i can see is that we have a good qb and an offensive coordinator who has some sense albeit a little bit streaky with playcalling.

it’s also a bit of a stretch to act like key is a new piece of this program when he’s had a front row seat and bares some responsibility for the current state of affairs around here

i want key to be successful and i think there is still time but it’s hard to act really impressed so far when it’s been more of the same ol same ol. key seems to be getting a pass for a lot of things simply based on the fact that he is not collins and isn’t such a goofball with skinny pants, waffle house and sideline weightlifting

 

[Northeast Stinger]

we had people writing off collins immediately after some of the bad losses, inability to finish games and putrid defense and special teams. this year we blew a game we had a fourth quarter lead, we have a loss every bit as bad as citadel, NIU, etc, and we have had multiple catastrophic mistakes on special teams while looking like one of the worst defenses in the conference.

i think key is a better coach than collins but as of right now the only true difference i can see is that we have a good qb and an offensive coordinator who has some sense albeit a little bit streaky with playcalling.

it’s also a bit of a stretch to act like key is a new piece of this program when he’s had a front row seat and bares some responsibility for the current state of affairs around here

i want key to be successful and i think there is still time but it’s hard to act really impressed so far when it’s been more of the same ol same ol. key seems to be getting a pass for a lot of things simply based on the fact that he is not collins and isn’t such a goofball with skinny pants, waffle house and sideline weightlifting

Yeah, this assessment is fair, though, to be honest, someone drawing the exact opposite conclusion would also be justified. I just think it is way too early to draw sharp conclusions. The last regime was a toxic place for players and coaches. We need some distance from that to see what’s what.

As for Collins, it wasn’t his goofball style, as you put it, that most of us had problems with. Thought that was icing on the cake along with his intelligence insulting press conferences. It was teams that never practiced tackling, rarely went full speed in practice and looked totally unprepared for games and totally undisciplined during games. Some of us see a marked difference in the way the team carries itself now.

That’s the difference. I would like to see what Tech can do with a few years of this difference.

 

[jgtengineer]

we had people writing off collins immediately after some of the bad losses, inability to finish games and putrid defense and special teams. this year we blew a game we had a fourth quarter lead, we have a loss every bit as bad as citadel, NIU, etc, and we have had multiple catastrophic mistakes on special teams while looking like one of the worst defenses in the conference.

i think key is a better coach than collins but as of right now the only true difference i can see is that we have a good qb and an offensive coordinator who has some sense albeit a little bit streaky with playcalling.

it’s also a bit of a stretch to act like key is a new piece of this program when he’s had a front row seat and bares some responsibility for the current state of affairs around here

i want key to be successful and i think there is still time but it’s hard to act really impressed so far when it’s been more of the same ol same ol. key seems to be getting a pass for a lot of things simply based on the fact that he is not collins and isn’t such a goofball with skinny pants, waffle house and sideline weightlifting

Losing to BG is no where near as bad as citadel. BG and NIU are like MT was when groh underestimated them (cost him his job which ironically is exactly what just happened to thacker)

Citadel was bad for a whole bunch of reasons the biggest one being we were one year removed from running the offense. And they didn't beat us doing anything special. They beat us because we didn't cover anyone out of the backfield and collin's bright idea for stopping the pitch was to scrape the backside safety to the alley while blitzing the frontside one to take the QB.

Surprise Surprise the backside safety rarely got there which gave them 6+ yards per pitch play. Then instead of say giving the ball to JP 30 times and just out physical them which we should have been able to do. They got cute trying to run RPO.

 

[CEB]

Yeah, this assessment is fair, though, to be honest, someone drawing the exact opposite conclusion would also be justified. I just think it is way too early to draw sharp conclusions. The last regime was a toxic place for players and coaches. We need some distance from that to see what’s what.

As for Collins, it wasn’t his goofball style, as you put it, that most of us had problems with. Thought that was icing on the cake along with his intelligence insulting press conferences. It was teams that never practiced tackling, rarely went full speed in practice and looked totally unprepared for games and totally undisciplined during games. Some of us see a marked difference in the way the team carries itself now.

That’s the difference. I would like to see what Tech can do with a few years of this difference.

Exactly. Collins had a lot of attributes that made him very easy to make fun of. However, I think most everyone was still optimistic, and cut him slack for the on-field performance for at least two years. Mid to late year three, it was clear that improvement was not coming anytime soon and that’s when everyone really started to turn against him.
It’s disingenuous to say that Collins was not afforded some leeway, particularly in the first few years.
The crux of the argument with Key really is whether or not this is truly year one. Candidly, I don’t believe it is year one, but it sure as hell ain’t year five. What happens the rest of this year and next will likely seal the deal for key. I’m hopeful that he rights the ship, because if he turns out to be a really good coach, he might be a good one we can actually hold onto.

 

[JacketFan137]

Losing to BG is no where near as bad as citadel. BG and NIU are like MT was when groh underestimated them (cost him his job which ironically is exactly what just happened to thacker)

Citadel was bad for a whole bunch of reasons the biggest one being we were one year removed from running the offense. And they didn't beat us doing anything special. They beat us because we didn't cover anyone out of the backfield and collin's bright idea for stopping the pitch was to scrape the backside safety to the alley while blitzing the frontside one to take the QB.

Surprise Surprise the backside safety rarely got there which gave them 6+ yards per pitch play. Then instead of say giving the ball to JP 30 times and just out physical them which we should have been able to do. They got cute trying to run RPO.

we were 26 point favorites vs citadel and 21-22 point favorites vs bg. it may not be as bad but saying nowhere near as bad is quite a bit of a stretch. the context of the game is also pretty important as we had a chance to finally be above .500 for the first time in 5 years and i think that would have exorcised some demons and dark clouds hanging over the program. bowling green also just came off a ridiculous loss. the thing that takes the cake though is after jumping off to a quick start we basically got blown out the rest of the way

it’s also kinda silly to say citadel did nothing special as if bowling green did anything spectacular. we just got manhandled at the point of contact on both lines and made their running back look like the lovechild of derrick henry and nick chubb getting 7 yards and dragging 5 guys with him every play

it just gets frustrating that we had a general consensus on here that this team just needed a new coach and we’d be going bowling. now we got the coach and the qb and we are still losing to opponents we were favored by 3 scores at home after paying them money, and all we hear are excuses and how we need time. it just sounds soft and foolish and people need to start holding the program accountable. i’m glad key made a swift change at dc, and whether it yields results or not i appreciate the message, but we really should not be making foolish excuses about this regime needing more time after a loss to bowling green. say that after teams like clemson, unc, miami, uga, florida state, etc. after bowling green that is embarrassing to say

 

[JacketFan137]

As for Collins, it wasn’t his goofball style, as you put it, that most of us had problems with. Thought that was icing on the cake along with his intelligence insulting press conferences. It was teams that never practiced tackling, rarely went full speed in practice and looked totally unprepared for games and totally undisciplined during games. Some of us see a marked difference in the way the team carries itself now.

press conferences i will concede although i think this place cares far more about that than it really matters. listening to a dabo press conference for example will give you brain cancer, but that’s a different topic altogether

i’m not sure that there is a noticeable difference in our tackling that we can pretend like key has resolved the practice issue. if anything it got worse between now and when key initially took over. i get that we lost some talent but the defense has been inexcusable. we looked underprepared in the game vs bowling green to me once they punched us in the mouth.

also the special teams play has just been so bad that it’s hard for me to pretend like this team is so much more prepared

idk i really do wanna say i feel so much better about everything but key is making that a pretty difficult sell at the moment and i’ve said it in some other threads but maybe when we process some guys out we will resolve some of the culture issues. if we lose a game like this next season though it’s time to clean house

 

[roadkill]

I think it's pointless to try to compare "worst loss" across different coaching regimes or to have a beauty contest between them. All the ones cited are bad losses. I believe the issue that hurts the most from the BG loss is that prior to the game it appeared, finally, that we had some positive momentum for the season, and we could reconcile the losses to Louisville and Ole Miss as potentially fixable problems. We also had validation that Key had chosen the right QB. Many of us thought that we could see demonstratable progress in several areas, even with our defense, and especially after WF.

All the apparent positive momentum was called into question after last Saturday. We had hope, but then it was undermined. During the previous regime, I'm not sure we ever felt a great deal of positive momentum. That was what made the BG loss so impactful. And the lost positive momentum is unlikely to be recovered this coming Saturday. I think the best that can be hoped for is to see us play sound, disciplined football, even in a loss.

 

[Sheboygan]

press conferences i will concede although i think this place cares far more about that than it really matters. listening to a dabo press conference for example will give you brain cancer, but that’s a different topic altogether

i’m not sure that there is a noticeable difference in our tackling that we can pretend like key has resolved the practice issue. if anything it got worse between now and when key initially took over. i get that we lost some talent but the defense has been inexcusable. we looked underprepared in the game vs bowling green to me once they punched us in the mouth.

also the special teams play has just been so bad that it’s hard for me to pretend like this team is so much more prepared

idk i really do wanna say i feel so much better about everything but key is making that a pretty difficult sell at the moment and i’ve said it in some other threads but maybe when we process some guys out we will resolve some of the culture issues. if we lose a game like this next season though it’s time to clean house

What is a common denominator that gave many of us pause this year ? That Thacker was retained as DC. I had often thought that TFG probably micromanaged Thacker because that was his personality- "defensive genius". Could it have possibly have been because Thacker needed it- by mentoring him ?
By all accounts Thacker is hard working, well liked, etc. But the DC position may just be a bit over his ability and experience level right now. We may soon know if this may have been the issue, or not. I am interested to see what happens this Saturday and beyond.

 

[yeti92]

imo Key will get the same amount of time as TFG to perform, regardless of his likeability vs TFG. Of course everyone wants to see progress and a bowl immediately, but it will be pretty easy for the more fanatical fans (ie not the fairweather fans who are already not paying attention any more) to write off this season as not Brent's fault, growing pains, whatever excuse you fancy. We don't go bowling next year, which is certainly looking like it will be a harder schedule, and his seat will be getting toasty. Turn in a 3rd season without a bowl game and the likelihood of making it to a 5th season drops to almost zero.

 

[Sheboygan]

I think it's pointless to try to compare "worst loss" across different coaching regimes or to have a beauty contest between them. All the ones cited are bad losses. I believe the issue that hurts the most from the BG loss is that prior to the game it appeared, finally, that we had some positive momentum for the season, and we could reconcile the losses to Louisville and Ole Miss as potentially fixable problems. We also had validation that Key had chosen the right QB. Many of us thought that we could see demonstratable progress in several areas, even with our defense, and especially after WF.

All the apparent positive momentum was called into question after last Saturday. We had hope, but then it was undermined. During the previous regime, I'm not sure we ever felt a great deal of positive momentum. That was what made the BG loss so impactful. And the lost positive momentum is unlikely to be recovered this coming Saturday. I think the best that can be hoped for is to see us play sound, disciplined football, even in a loss.

Looking back at TFG's regime , it seemed we needed a bye week to play well ( or at least better ) in the next game. I often thought we needed a bye week before EVERY game......
Like you, I also thought after WF that we had some momentum finally. It may be a case of 3 steps forward, then 1, or even 2 steps back, but the overall trend is upward.

 

[JacketFan137]

imo Key will get the same amount of time as TFG to perform, regardless of his likeability vs TFG. Of course everyone wants to see progress and a bowl immediately, but it will be pretty easy for the more fanatical fans (ie not the fairweather fans who are already not paying attention any more) to write off this season as not Brent's fault, growing pains, whatever excuse you fancy. We don't go bowling next year, which is certainly looking like it will be a harder schedule, and his seat will be getting toasty. Turn in a 3rd season without a bowl game and the likelihood of making it to a 5th season drops to almost zero.

if we don’t go bowling in year 2 and we retain key for year 3 then we are an unserious football program and need to just pack it in and take ourselves down to the socon. there’s no way to hold onto any goodwill with the remaining fanbase if we don’t go to a bowl. unless we beat uga then there would be nothing positive to hang on to for another season without a bowl

 

[bobongo]

What is a common denominator that gave many of us pause this year ? That Thacker was retained as DC. I had often thought that TFG probably micromanaged Thacker because that was his personality- "defensive genius". Could it have possibly have been because Thacker needed it- by mentoring him ?
By all accounts Thacker is hard working, well liked, etc. But the DC position may just be a bit over his ability and experience level right now. We may soon know if this may have been the issue, or not. I am interested to see what happens this Saturday and beyond.

As I remember it, Geoff's decision to keep Thacker after 2021 caused an uproar, but after he left and Thacker's D did much better, the decision to keep him after 2022 was far more accepted.
The fact is that this D lost most of its best talent. I understand trying something different, and I really don't know how much of our woes are coaching and how much is personnel, but we shouldn't necessarily expect things will improve markedly on D. Hope our passing game can keep us in it against Miami.