Les Miles Met w/ Ted Roof in January

[PBR549]

Dude, you do realize this is the college game, right? You can't say who can do better with the "same players" since:

1. You have to coach up the previous coaches players. That is your job as a coach. If you can't do that, then...

2. You need to recruit players who are better than what you inherited if you can't "coach up" the players already on the roster.

Let's look at an example of someone who did something more with the talent he inherited, and we don't have to look far: Charles Kelly

Everyone remember the defensive debacle of the 2011 season before Groh was fired? Our defense ruined what could have been a great season because we had one of the best offenses in GT history. We could not stop anyone. Well, Groh was let go and Kelly was elevated to DC. This is what he did:

• Kelly came to FSU after seven years as a special teams and defensive backs coach at Georgia Tech. He was elevated to interim defensive coordinator in the sixth game of the 2012 season when the Yellow Jackets had a 2-4 record. After taking over as defensive coordinator, Kelly helped Georgia Tech finish 5-3 (7-7 overall), including a Hyundai Sun Bowl victory over USC. Kelly’s defense limited the high-powered Trojan offense to 205 yards and seven points in the bowl win.

• One of the biggest improvements in Tech’s defense the last eight games of the season was its play in the second half, specifically in the fourth quarter. In the first six games of the season, Tech allowed an average of 13.3 points in the fourth quarter and in overtime, compared to just 3.9 points in the fourth quarter the final eight games of the season. The Yellow Jackets did not allow a fourth-quarter point in each of their final four games (Duke, Georgia, FSU and USC). The defense shut out both FSU and USC in the second half of those games. Opponents scored 44.2 percent of their points in the fourth quarter and in OT through the first six games of the season, compared to just 14.4 percent of their points in the fourth quarter over the final eight games.

Ted Roof inherited a veteran group of players in 2015. Every single member of the defensive backfield, and defensive line were starters in 2014, and our 2 LBs in the 4-2-5 (PJ Davis and Tyler Stargel) got extensive snaps in 2014. What were the results?

Total defense: 45
Scoring Defense: 56
Rushing defense: 60
Passing defense: 38

ACC rankings:
Total defense: 9
Scoring Defense: 11
Rushing defense: 8
Passing defense: 10

So who would do better at GT for the money GT ? Well, look at the rankings, and look at the highest paid coordinators in the game (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant). It may be harder to answer the question "Who wouldn't be better?!" The list of viable candidates is pretty easy because Roof is one of the higher paid DCs in the game (about #15 highest paid DC), and a lot of the guys who don't get paid as much had better performing defenses. Oh, that list also includes guys like the aforementioned Charles Kelly ($583K), Geoff Collins ($701K) who both are familiar with GT's recruiting challenges. You want another guy for bonus round? Try Dale Pehrson (Preston Pehrson's father) at Navy (NAVY!!!) who had the 26th ranked total defense in the nation after taking over for Buddy Green. But that's Navy...no coach there could recruit and coach in the ACC, right? Oops...sorry CPJ.

The other part: Recruiting. Are you saying we should give Roof credit for coaching the squad he mostly recruited? You don't see the problem with that? If he can't coach up the players he inherited, AND he can't coach up the players he personally recruited...well, isn't GT screwed either way, then with Roof?

Sorry man...not sure about you. In the real world, when you pay a premium for something, you expect premium returns. I don't go to the Capital Grill and order an expensive Rib Eye and get a piece of chopped steak from Longhorn. I don't go to the Mercedes dealership and pay for a SL500 AMG and get a Toyota Corolla. You're one of the biggest drum beaters that GT doesn't have a lot of resources....well, wouldn't it be smart then of GT to make the most of the resources it has? Roof is one of the highest paid DCs not only in all of college football, but in all the P5 conferences. GT doesn't get the highest ranked SAs, but the guys we get aren't chopped liver either (just look at the guys on defense who have been drafted or signed with an NFL team since Roof has been here). Roof doesn't need a top 10 defense at GT...no one expects that. But can we at least get a top 30 defense? The answer so far is, better not hold your breath...

So you're saying you can pick a staff better than Coach Johnson? Are you a head coach at a major football power somewhere?

 

[Tech First]

We were not great but I believe our D did well enough to win a majority of our games last year. And that is not something that can be said for quiet a while now. Just my 2 cents

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Dude, you do realize this is the college game, right? You can't say who can do better with the "same players" since:

1. You have to coach up the previous coaches players. That is your job as a coach. If you can't do that, then...

2. You need to recruit players who are better than what you inherited if you can't "coach up" the players already on the roster.

Let's look at an example of someone who did something more with the talent he inherited, and we don't have to look far: Charles Kelly

Everyone remember the defensive debacle of the 2011 season before Groh was fired? Our defense ruined what could have been a great season because we had one of the best offenses in GT history. We could not stop anyone. Well, Groh was let go and Kelly was elevated to DC. This is what he did:

• Kelly came to FSU after seven years as a special teams and defensive backs coach at Georgia Tech. He was elevated to interim defensive coordinator in the sixth game of the 2012 season when the Yellow Jackets had a 2-4 record. After taking over as defensive coordinator, Kelly helped Georgia Tech finish 5-3 (7-7 overall), including a Hyundai Sun Bowl victory over USC. Kelly’s defense limited the high-powered Trojan offense to 205 yards and seven points in the bowl win.

• One of the biggest improvements in Tech’s defense the last eight games of the season was its play in the second half, specifically in the fourth quarter. In the first six games of the season, Tech allowed an average of 13.3 points in the fourth quarter and in overtime, compared to just 3.9 points in the fourth quarter the final eight games of the season. The Yellow Jackets did not allow a fourth-quarter point in each of their final four games (Duke, Georgia, FSU and USC). The defense shut out both FSU and USC in the second half of those games. Opponents scored 44.2 percent of their points in the fourth quarter and in OT through the first six games of the season, compared to just 14.4 percent of their points in the fourth quarter over the final eight games.

Ted Roof inherited a veteran group of players in 2015. Every single member of the defensive backfield, and defensive line were starters in 2014, and our 2 LBs in the 4-2-5 (PJ Davis and Tyler Stargel) got extensive snaps in 2014. What were the results?

Total defense: 45
Scoring Defense: 56
Rushing defense: 60
Passing defense: 38

ACC rankings:
Total defense: 9
Scoring Defense: 11
Rushing defense: 8
Passing defense: 10

So who would do better at GT for the money GT ? Well, look at the rankings, and look at the highest paid coordinators in the game (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/football/assistant). It may be harder to answer the question "Who wouldn't be better?!" The list of viable candidates is pretty easy because Roof is one of the higher paid DCs in the game (about #15 highest paid DC), and a lot of the guys who don't get paid as much had better performing defenses. Oh, that list also includes guys like the aforementioned Charles Kelly ($583K), Geoff Collins ($701K) who both are familiar with GT's recruiting challenges. You want another guy for bonus round? Try Dale Pehrson (Preston Pehrson's father) at Navy (NAVY!!!) who had the 26th ranked total defense in the nation after taking over for Buddy Green. But that's Navy...no coach there could recruit and coach in the ACC, right? Oops...sorry CPJ.

The other part: Recruiting. Are you saying we should give Roof credit for coaching the squad he mostly recruited? You don't see the problem with that? If he can't coach up the players he inherited, AND he can't coach up the players he personally recruited...well, isn't GT screwed either way, then with Roof?

Sorry man...not sure about you. In the real world, when you pay a premium for something, you expect premium returns. I don't go to the Capital Grill and order an expensive Rib Eye and get a piece of chopped steak from Longhorn. I don't go to the Mercedes dealership and pay for a SL500 AMG and get a Toyota Corolla. You're one of the biggest drum beaters that GT doesn't have a lot of resources....well, wouldn't it be smart then of GT to make the most of the resources it has? Roof is one of the highest paid DCs not only in all of college football, but in all the P5 conferences. GT doesn't get the highest ranked SAs, but the guys we get aren't chopped liver either (just look at the guys on defense who have been drafted or signed with an NFL team since Roof has been here). Roof doesn't need a top 10 defense at GT...no one expects that. But can we at least get a top 30 defense? The answer so far is, better not hold your breath...

I appreciate your efforts and you make some valid points, but I can explain away all of it. There's just too many variables in play to draw meaningful conclusions from the stats you mentioned.

The most striking one concerns offensive impact. Kelly may be a good or even great coordinator, but he never had to compensate for being paired with such an atrocious offense. Quite to the contrary, to be exact. Give Roof the comfort of defending offenses forced to score every single possession and I'd wager a much different outcome.

Give Roof the easier schedule, too, while you're at it if you want to begin to compare apples to apples.

 

[Techster]

I appreciate your efforts and you make some valid points, but I can explain away all of it. There's just too many variables in play to draw meaningful conclusions from the stats you mentioned.

The most striking one concerns offensive impact. Kelly may be a good or even great coordinator, but he never had to compensate for being paired with such an atrocious offense. Quite to the contrary, to be exact. Give Roof the comfort of defending offenses forced to score every single possession and I'd wager a much different outcome.

Give Roof the easier schedule, too, while you're at it if you want to begin to compare apples to apples.

Glad you brought up the offense. The offense in 2014 was one of the best in college football history (Seriously, look it up). How did Ted Roof's defense do last year?

Total Defense: 65
Scoring Defense: 52

Roof's defense, paired with one of the best offenses in college football history, actually performed WORSE last season than it did with a bad offense this season. In fact, our offense was so good, Miss State broke several offensive bowl records AND we were still able to win because our offense was historically good. That's something CPJ himself has brought up on more than one occassion. The irony here is, Roof's defense actually performed better against the better teams this season (FSU and UGA come to mind), but totally wet the bed against the UVA's, Pittsburghs, and Dukes. As more than one poster has pointed out, it's not like Roof's defenses were setting the world on fire at other places and somehow GT's harder academic environment made him a mediocre DC. His track record is what it is...and Roof is what he is. Just my opinion, but if we're paying a guy like one of the top DC's in the conference and in the country, the product should certainly be better than what we've gotten. You can make excuses about our offense and opponents, but at the end of the day when you hire any coach, it's about "raising all boats". You can certainly say paying CPJ more than we paid Gailey had that effect for our football program.

I don't disagree that had our offense been better this season Roof's defense may have benefited. I've actually stated that myself in several other threads. My disagreement with you is over your statement "Well, who else is GT suppose to get for that money?!" That is one of the worst defenses (no pun intended) anyone can make to try and validate someone's performance.

 

[Techster]

So you're saying you can pick a staff better than Coach Johnson? Are you a head coach at a major football power somewhere?

Dude, if you don't like to hear opinions from other fans, you might find it better to stay off messagboards.

BTW, Al Groh says "Hello" and would like to thank CPJ for the nice buyout before heading to the TV booth.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Dude, if you don't like to hear opinions from other fans, you might find it better to stay off messagboards.

BTW, Al Groh says "Hello" and would like to thank CPJ for the nice buyout before heading to the TV booth.

nm

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Glad you brought up the offense. The offense in 2014 was one of the best in college football history (Seriously, look it up). How did Ted Roof's defense do last year?

Total Defense: 65
Scoring Defense: 52

Roof's defense, paired with one of the best offenses in college football history, actually performed WORSE last season than it did with a bad offense this season. In fact, our offense was so good, Miss State broke several offensive bowl records AND we were still able to win because our offense was historically good. That's something CPJ himself has brought up on more than one occassion. The irony here is, Roof's defense actually performed better against the better teams this season (FSU and UGA come to mind), but totally wet the bed against the UVA's, Pittsburghs, and Dukes. As more than one poster has pointed out, it's not like Roof's defenses were setting the world on fire at other places and somehow GT's harder academic environment made him a mediocre DC. His track record is what it is...and Roof is what he is. Just my opinion, but if we're paying a guy like one of the top DC's in the conference and in the country, the product should certainly be better than what we've gotten. You can make excuses about our offense and opponents, but at the end of the day when you hire any coach, it's about "raising all boats". You can certainly say paying CPJ more than we paid Gailey had that effect for our football program.

I don't disagree that had our offense been better this season Roof's defense may have benefited. I've actually stated that myself in several other threads. My disagreement with you is over your statement "Well, who else is GT suppose to get for that money?!" That is one of the worst defenses (no pun intended) anyone can make to try and validate someone's performance.

Point taken.

I'm still not convinced that our issues are more coaching related than lack of talent. I just checked national and conference leaders in all defensive stat categories and GT is barely represented. In most categories we had zero representatives.

 

[hwdgeplague]

If stats ever lied it was last year(2014). Pound for pound Roof made a lot of lemonade. I thought the job he did wit the hand dealt was stellar. The aggressive play making was refreshing.

The D's improvement this year was negated by setbacks on the offensive side of the ball IMHO.

It does also seem like the D class we brought in is 2007 level talent.

Unless you like turmoil and transition it seems like this is our best DC option since CPJ has been here.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Point taken.

I'm still not convinced that our issues are more coaching related than lack of talent. I just checked national and conference leaders in all defensive stat categories and GT is barely represented. In most categories we had zero representatives.

Just compared conference leaders in all defensive stat categories from 2014 with 2015 and the difference is staggering. In 2014 we had multiple representatives in all categories, some as many as 5.

For example, in 2014 we had PJ Davis, Nealy, IJ, Demond Smith and DJ White all listed in the top 50 in tackles.

This year, only PJ.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Turns out we really missed Nealy, IJ and Demond while Freeman, White and to some degree PJ Davis, regressed.

Although not shown by stats, I'd wager we really missed Green at DT, as well.

 

[ATL1]

Roof doesn't need a top 10 defense at GT...no one expects that. But can we at least get a top 30 defense? The answer so far is, better not hold your breath...

I am. Honestly this should be the goal of every DC. If not in total be it at least in one category, but either way yes I demand it. Especially if your being paid like a top 10 DC.

 

[Techster]

If stats ever lied it was last year(2014). Pound for pound Roof made a lot of lemonade. I thought the job he did wit the hand dealt was stellar. The aggressive play making was refreshing.

The D's improvement this year was negated by setbacks on the offensive side of the ball IMHO.

It does also seem like the D class we brought in is 2007 level talent.

Unless you like turmoil and transition it seems like this is our best DC option since CPJ has been here.

How did the stats lie in 2014? The defense has to give up the yards and points to register. It's not like the NCAA gave Roof's defense 20 points and 200 yards against to start every game.

Couple of things here:

1. I thought Roof did a fantastic job of 2nd half adjustments shutting down the other team. But, you also have to acknowledge the defense put themselves in that hole. Afterall, you have to play football for 4 total quarters, not just one half.

2. RE: the aggressiveness he played with. Was that a CTR decision, or a CPJ mandate? CPJ has repeatedly said that after a certain amount of games, he had a talk with Roof. And the now famous (or infamous) quote "Either they're going to score or we're going to hold them...either way, they're gonna come off the field". That was because CPJ knew we had the offense in 2014 to trade scores, so was fine with the fact that if CTR's defense threw everything at the other team's offense, he could live with the result. Either CTR's defense would make a big play, or the other team would.

 

[jandrews]

Ted didn't have a full season to recruit in 13. He barely had a month. I think he's doing a good job. It was apparent that at some point in time injuries would become overwhelming. Now I do want him to be more aggressive at times. I think he's bringing in more athletic defensive players. I loved the seniors but Davis wasn't very good against the pass. Mitchell showed flashes he is definitely a pure LB. our DL is the most troubling as far as production. That is something they will have to fix. Pass rush left a ton to be desired.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I was just offering data. Is it your point that we are less talented on D than most ACC teams?

I was asking a question....not making a point. Yet.

 

[PBR549]

How did the stats lie in 2014? The defense has to give up the yards and points to register. It's not like the NCAA gave Roof's defense 20 points and 200 yards against to start every game.

Couple of things here:

1. I thought Roof did a fantastic job of 2nd half adjustments shutting down the other team. But, you also have to acknowledge the defense put themselves in that hole. Afterall, you have to play football for 4 total quarters, not just one half.

2. RE: the aggressiveness he played with. Was that a CTR decision, or a CPJ mandate? CPJ has repeatedly said that after a certain amount of games, he had a talk with Roof. And the now famous (or infamous) quote "Either they're going to score or we're going to hold them...either way, they're gonna come off the field". That was because CPJ knew we had the offense in 2014 to trade scores, so was fine with the fact that if CTR's defense threw everything at the other team's offense, he could live with the result. Either CTR's defense would make a big play, or the other team would.

Those are things you are not going to understand unless you're part of the staff. Therefore it is unfair to judge a coach unless you have all the information.

 

[Techster]

Those are things you are not going to understand unless you're part of the staff. Therefore it is unfair to judge a coach unless you have all the information.

Why does any fan need to be part of the staff when the head coach himself made those statements publicly?

 

[hwdgeplague]

Quote.

How did the stats lie in 2014? The defense has to give up the yards and points to register. It's not like the NCAA gave Roof's defense 20 points and 200 yards against to start every game.

Couple of things here:

1. I thought Roof did a fantastic job of 2nd half adjustments shutting down the other team. But, you also have to acknowledge the defense put themselves in that hole. Afterall, you have to play football for 4 total quarters, not just one half.

2. RE: the aggressiveness he played with. Was that a CTR decision, or a CPJ mandate? CPJ has repeatedly said that after a certain amount of games, he had a talk with Roof. And the now famous (or infamous) quote "Either they're going to score or we're going to hold them...either way, they're gonna come off the field". That was because CPJ knew we had the offense in 2014 to trade scores, so was fine with the fact that if CTR's defense threw everything at the other team's offense, he could live with the result. Either CTR's defense would make a big play, or the other team would.

I seem to remember 7 of our top 10 DL being ineligible or injured or removed from the team prior to the 2014 season. ... This is what the stats cannot address where it comes to the job the players and coaches did in 14 to plug the gaps. It will remain on as one of the greater triumphs of Tech Sports, how that Defense overcame a lack of sheer talent to become an effective unit. The one stat that doesn't lie: we were arguably only 3 plays away from the CFP.

 

[Techster]

Quote.


I seem to remember 7 of our top 10 DL being ineligible or injured or removed from the team prior to the 2014 season. ... This is what the stats cannot address where it comes to the job the players and coaches did in 14 to plug the gaps. It will remain on as one of the greater triumphs of Tech Sports, how that Defense overcame a lack of sheer talent to become an effective unit. The one stat that doesn't lie: we were arguably only 3 plays away from the CFP.

Yes we did lose a lot of guys prior to the 2014 season, but were any of the guys we lost really any better than the guys who ended up playing?
-What has Kevin Robbins, Darius Commissiong, Justin Akins done of note since they left GT? Commissiong barely made an impression at East Carolina this year, Kevin Robbins hardly played at Ohio University in 2015, and Justin Akins had 11 tackles and 1.5 sacks at MTSU in 2015...it's hard to make an argument that their 2014 version would have been more impactful on the P5 level when they hardly made an impression on a lower level this year.
-Jabari Hunt and Kendarious Whitehead proved in 2015 that they were more messageboard hype than actual production. Whitehead hardly ever saw the field this year, and at his weight, it would have been hard for him to have made an impact in 2014.

Were any of those guys really going to start ahead of Shawn Green and Adam Gotsis at DT, or KeShun Freeman and Pat Gamble/Chungong at DE in 2014? Certainly you could argue someone like Hunt and Commissiong would have given us more depth at DT, but would either of them really have changed the complexion of our defense as you're insinuating? Adam Gotsis was still All-ACC in 2014, and Keshun Freeman was a Freshmen All-American in 2014. Our 2014 DL won't be mistaken for Alabama's DL, but they weren't exactly chopped liver.

I'm not saying our defense was horrible, but if it wasn't for our all time historical offense in 2014, our defense would have been exposed a little more than they were (something CPJ has said multiple times). 2015 has proven that. Our 2015 defense was actually better than our 2014 defense, but because our offense wasn't setting the world on fire, we lost games we should have won. On the flip side, you look at the 2014 games: GA Southern, Miss State...our offense had to outscore the opponents. Then look at the Miami game (40+ minutes to 19+ minutes TOP advantage), UGA (35+ minutes to 23+ minutes TOP advantage) where our offense was basically our defense. When there are 50+ teams ahead of you in scoring defense and 60+ teams ahead of you in total defense, I mean, there's not much to parse there. That's a long way from being defensible.

 

[hwdgeplague]

Yes we did lose a lot of guys prior to the 2014 season, but were any of the guys we lost really any better than the guys who ended up playing?
-What has Kevin Robbins, Darius Commissiong, Justin Akins done of note since they left GT? Commissiong barely made an impression at East Carolina this year, Kevin Robbins hardly played at Ohio University in 2015, and Justin Akins had 11 tackles and 1.5 sacks at MTSU in 2015...it's hard to make an argument that their 2014 version would have been more impactful on the P5 level when they hardly made an impression on a lower level this year.
-Jabari Hunt and Kendarious Whitehead proved in 2015 that they were more messageboard hype than actual production. Whitehead hardly ever saw the field this year, and at his weight, it would have been hard for him to have made an impact in 2014.

Were any of those guys really going to start ahead of Shawn Green and Adam Gotsis at DT, or KeShun Freeman and Pat Gamble/Chungong at DE in 2014? Certainly you could argue someone like Hunt and Commissiong would have given us more depth at DT, but would either of them really have changed the complexion of our defense as you're insinuating? Adam Gotsis was still All-ACC in 2014, and Keshun Freeman was a Freshmen All-American in 2014. Our 2014 DL won't be mistaken for Alabama's DL, but they weren't exactly chopped liver.

I'm not saying our defense was horrible, but if it wasn't for our all time historical offense in 2014, our defense would have been exposed a little more than they were (something CPJ has said multiple times). 2015 has proven that. Our 2015 defense was actually better than our 2014 defense, but because our offense wasn't setting the world on fire, we lost games we should have won. On the flip side, you look at the 2014 games: GA Southern, Miss State...our offense had to outscore the opponents. Then look at the Miami game (40+ minutes to 19+ minutes TOP advantage), UGA (35+ minutes to 23+ minutes TOP advantage) where our offense was basically our defense. When there are 50+ teams ahead of you in scoring defense and 60+ teams ahead of you in total defense, I mean, there's not much to parse there. That's a long way from being defensible.

Obviously the gentlemen you listed would have been much better had they remained under our coaching staff than wherever they ended up . Seriously though, you and I agree. ..we made a great team out of what we had. The offense benefited from some momentum building turnovers. Without these big plays from the D, the offense wouldn't have been in a position to be as outstanding as they were. My last word on all of this is that the young talented freshmen who we recruited last year will definitely help our perception of whomever we have as coaches. Top 30 D here we come.

 

[Skeptic]

That raise was from last spring....iirc...

http://www.myajc.com/news/sports/college/notes-raise-extension-for-techs-roof/nkMTs/

Lesson here: If a coach uses someone else as leverage, always let him go...especially at GT:

Paul Hewitt and the Knicks: De facto lifetime contract!
Chan Gailey and the Miami Dolphins: 5 year extension!
Ted Roof and LSU??! Overpaid for the product...

Maybe the most salient point to gather from all this, the fact that Roof agreed to an interview for the LSU job kind of squelches all of the talk about him being a Tech man through and through. And that is not a criticism, believe it or not. He is a football coach first. Who wants top dollar second. He will go where he gets top dollar third. I'm sure he loves Tech, but just as sure if greener pastures beckon, he is gone. I don't have any problem with that. We all would. But remember that Tech part of him is compartmentalized.

The funny thing is that Miles wound up hiring Kevin Steele, who was run out of Baylor and Clemson for his lousy defenses. Part of his Clemson demise reportedly was his constant whining about the hurry-up offense that didn't give his defense a lot of time to rest and that moreover he carried into the offices, the locker room, where ever he had an audience. That being to holler that it wasn't his fault. Get one coaching job and you are set for life. Ain't big time sports grand?